Justflight purchases of MV products.

**Katoun** · February 18th, 2015, 09:21

Hi,

We are sad to say that we're no longer going to be supporting any items from Justflight.

There are two main reasons:

1) there are many of these items, boxed and otherwise, being sold as secondhand items and we're having to support multiple clients on one sale.

2) Justflight, on at least one item, broke the installer such that it never worked "out of the box".

So, it is with sadness that we cannot provide support for these items any longer.

Thank you.

Kat

**Meshman** · February 18th, 2015, 11:19

In before the thermo-nuclear war erupts and the thread's eventual locking...

**RAS_JF** · February 18th, 2015, 11:40

No problem. If anyone is having any issues with these products then please come direct to us as we will happily continue supporting you.

No need for thread locking I hope. Keep up the good work over at Milvis, chaps.

***Roger*** · February 18th, 2015, 12:44

We'll be watching but as long as it stays civil it'll stay open.

**Maj Kong** · February 18th, 2015, 13:28

Folks at MilViz are among the best in all respects. Sorry someone took advantage of your trust.
Best Wishes
Neal H

**ce_zeta** · February 18th, 2015, 13:33

if they still have support...No problem.

But Kat, you should know that your reason 1 oppose the EU Directive 2009/24/EC.

**Desert Rat** · February 18th, 2015, 13:51

Originally Posted by Katoun

Hi,

We are sad to say that we're no longer going to be supporting any items from Justflight.

There are two main reasons:

1) there are many of these items, boxed and otherwise, being sold as secondhand items and we're having to support multiple clients on one sale.

2) Justflight, on at least one item, broke the installer such that it never worked "out of the box".

So, it is with sadness that we cannot provide support for these items any longer.

Thank you.

Kat

Kat,

surely a matter for behind closed doors? Sure, state the intent, but the reasons need not be aired in public?

Point 1: Not JF fault, you must have agreed to boxed product sales before they happened. Not surewhat 'otherwise' entails, the mind boggles.

Point 2: Definitely a case of technical support behind closed doors that should not involve public outing. A modicum of dignity is always appreciated, especially from those that seek respect from their peers.

kind regards,
Jamie.

**DaveSHQ** · February 18th, 2015, 14:57

If i had a box for every add on i bought for FSX.....

**strykerpsg** · February 18th, 2015, 16:59

Originally Posted by JDTinballs

Kat,

surely a matter for behind closed doors? Sure, state the intent, but the reasons need not be aired in public?

Point 1: Not JF fault, you must have agreed to boxed product sales before they happened. Not surewhat 'otherwise' entails, the mind boggles.

Point 2: Definitely a case of technical support behind closed doors that should not involve public outing. A modicum of dignity is always appreciated, especially from those that seek respect from their peers.

kind regards,
Jamie.

Jamie, I disagree with the sentiment of taking the issue be a behind closed doors conversation. Milviz is being open and honest about their reasons behind not supporting, for their current and future clients. The fact that Milviz has been openly honest about much of their internal affairs over the years and how they wish to resolve them, makes them head and shoulders above many other developers that are less honest or sincere about their consumers interest, in my opinion.

Originally Posted by RAS_JF

No problem. If anyone is having any issues with these products then please come direct to us as we will happily continue supporting you.

No need for thread locking I hope. Keep up the good work over at Milvis, chaps.

And finally, it's the fact that these two powerhouse teams can openly agree about the grievance makes them both very honorable and will keep my investment futures in their products very secure indeed. Kudos to both Ras of Just Flight and Katoun of Milviz for working this amicably and openly.

**Katoun** · February 18th, 2015, 17:08

Hi,

We feel that there is no animosity between JF and us at this time.

Just as an FYI, we are not in the EU and are therefore not bound by their laws. Same for the States.

Thank you.

Kat.

***Jafo*** · February 18th, 2015, 18:08

Originally Posted by Katoun

Hi,

We feel that there is no animosity between JF and us at this time.

Just as an FYI, we are not in the EU and are therefore not bound by their laws. Same for the States.

Thank you.

Kat.

Sometimes it's good to be neither in the EU nor the States ...

**Katoun** · February 18th, 2015, 18:10

Hi,

Yes, being in Canada has it's good points. One of them is the healthcare system.

Of course, there are some very bad things. Like the weather. Very VERY bad.

Kat.

***Jafo*** · February 18th, 2015, 18:48

Originally Posted by Katoun

Hi,

Yes, being in Canada has it's good points. One of them is the healthcare system.

Of course, there are some very bad things. Like the weather. Very VERY bad.

Kat.

Madly derailing this thread but...
I was in Canada in 2009 ....did the Red Leaf trip....only complaint was the lack of wildlife....[I think those bears are closely related to leprechauns]...

I'm from Oz....born and [in]bred [from Tassie] ...

**Dumonceau** · February 18th, 2015, 22:31

Originally Posted by RAS_JF

No problem. If anyone is having any issues with these products then please come direct to us as we will happily continue supporting you.

No need for thread locking I hope. Keep up the good work over at Milvis, chaps.

And I've found JF support to be absolutely top-notch! And friendly at that!

Johan

**dhasdell** · February 18th, 2015, 22:36

And I've found JF support to be absolutely top-notch! And friendly at that!

Me too. When the Chipmunk was first released and had problems JF immediately offered me a refund, even though it was installed and I could have simply accepted but kept it, at least until a new install was needed.

**ce_zeta** · February 19th, 2015, 06:37

Originally Posted by Katoun

Hi,

We feel that there is no animosity between JF and us at this time.

Just as an FYI, we are not in the EU and are therefore not bound by their laws. Same for the States.

Thank you.

Kat.

OMG. FYI where you from is not the fact. If you make business with EU and/or US companies, you are bound to some laws. In this case JF is a British company. If you sell to US and EU customers, maybe you should respect some laws too.
You shouldn't play with fire. Respect the laws and everything will be fine

with this deal with JF you had luck, but in the future nobody knows and we want to enjoy our hobby with new developments from Milviz all our life.

P.S. contact with your lawyers for more info.

**dougal** · February 19th, 2015, 07:24

Originally Posted by ce_zeta

OMG. FYI where you from is not the fact. If you make business with EU and/or US companies, you are bound to some laws. In this case JF is a British company. If you sell to US and EU customers, maybe you should respect some laws too.
You shouldn't play with fire. Respect the laws and everything will be fine

with this deal with JF you had luck, but in the future nobody knows and we want to enjoy our hobby with new developments from Milviz all our life.

P.S. contact with your lawyers for more info.

Oh dear.... Silly post!

My thoughts are ONLY that I wish developers OR vendors, when posting such as the OP and followup by what 'APPEARS' to be JustFlight'????, would let others know WHO you are;-) Not everyone knows (or cares) which indidvidual works for which company. Surely a commercial member should be marked as such?

Does that make sense. I sort of know what i mean;-)

**ce_zeta** · February 19th, 2015, 07:41

Originally Posted by dougal95

Oh dear.... Silly post!

My thoughts are ONLY that I wish developers OR vendors, when posting such as the OP and followup by what 'APPEARS' to be JustFlight'????, would let others know WHO you are;-) Not everyone knows (or cares) which indidvidual works for which company. Surely a commercial member should be marked as such?

Does that make sense. I sort of know what i mean;-)

Ignorance is dangerous Bro! You should think more about the topic. It's not a silly question when an unfavorable court decision can have a deep impact in financial results of any developer. I mean, it's better prevention than cure.

As a FAN, I want a strong community of developers.
As a CUSTOMER I want that all developers respect my rights.

**dougal** · February 19th, 2015, 07:52

Originally Posted by ce_zeta

Ignorance is dangerous Bro! You should think more about the topic. It's not a silly question when an unfavorable court decision can have a deep impact in financial results of any developer. I mean, it's better prevention than cure.

As a FAN, I want a strong community of developers.
As a CUSTOMER I want that all developers respect my rights.

I really DON'T want to derail this thread, as its done extremely well, BUT.... Having tried to be a vendor through internet sales, I can confirm with assurity, that if EVERY developer and vendor had to conform to EVERY countries laws that they sell to, then they could NEVER be in a posision to sell ANYTHING TO ANYONE.

Just ask Francoise. He has some recent first hand experience of this.

**Katoun** · February 19th, 2015, 07:58

HI,

We do not, as a Canadian company, have to comply with any other countries methods, taxes, laws or what have you.

All of the vendors that we go through MUST comply with their own countries methods, taxes, laws or what have you.

We provide support for ALL of our products as long as you are the original purchaser(s).

Thank you.

Kat.

**Dumonceau** · February 19th, 2015, 07:59

Originally Posted by dougal95

I really DON'T want to derail this thread, as its done extremely well, BUT.... Having tried to be a vendor through internet sales, I can confirm with assurity, that if EVERY developer and vendor had to conform to EVERY countries laws that they sell to, then they could NEVER be in a posision to sell ANYTHING TO ANYONE.

Just ask Francoise. He has some recent first hand experience of this.

Well the law and taxes are there for everyone.

**ce_zeta** · February 19th, 2015, 08:02

Originally Posted by dougal95

I really DON'T want to derail this thread, as its done extremely well, BUT.... Having tried to be a vendor through internet sales, I can confirm with assurity, that if EVERY developer and vendor had to conform to EVERY countries laws that they sell to, then they could NEVER be in a posision to sell ANYTHING TO ANYONE.

Just ask Francoise. He has some recent first hand experience of this.

Well.... at the moment when you show a disrespectful behaviour you derailed this thread.

For this reason, I said "Contact with your lawyer". We can start a fight in this thread but will be sterile, for this reason I wrote, Contact with your lawyer for more info.

**dougal** · February 19th, 2015, 08:36

Originally Posted by ce_zeta

Well.... at the moment when you show a disrespectful behaviour you derailed this thread.

For this reason, I said "Contact with your lawyer". We can start a fight in this thread but will be sterile, for this reason I wrote, Contact with your lawyer for more info.

I've no idea what's going on here so I'm out of here. Don't think i've been disrespectful but anyone else thinks i have then please tell me and I'll promptly apologise. ta ta!

**DaveB** · February 19th, 2015, 08:39

It was always going to get untidy and I see it has. Kinda ironic that the 2 parties concerned are completely amicable about the issue. Not so the lower deck lawyers

ATB
DaveB

**roger-wilco-66** · February 19th, 2015, 08:44

@ce_ceta:

Oh come on. Sorry but:

Kat made an official statement. That was all and should be appreciated.

There's no need to involve lawyers and legal stuff about it. If you want to make a suggestion to MILVIZ, this is very private and in my opinion you should write them an E-Mail. If you air that in the public you can expect opposition.

Cheers,
Mark

PS: normally I don't engage in that kind of mud slinging, but I couldn't resist.

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