Attention all skinners!
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Thread: Attention all skinners!

  1. #1

    Icon4 Attention all skinners!

    Bump mapping is coming to CFS3, courtesy of Ankor! Bump mapping can be added to any aircraft by simply creating a new bump map texture and using the existing naming convention for that aircraft's files to associate it with that particular aircraft.

    He has asked me to see if anyone would be interested in working up a quick one for any aircraft for initial testing. Any takers?

    Also, this serves as a heads up that all your past and present projects would benefit immensely from going back and making bump maps to match the skins you've created.

    For those who don't know what bump mapping is, it allows small details like rivets, panel lines, dents or places where metal skins flex between stringers to have the appearance of being 3D. We could also have awesome looking corrugated skin on the Ju 52 for instance.

  2. #2
    WOW!! This is amazing!!
    Too Cool!!!!

  3. #3
    SOH-CM-2017 Pat Pattle's Avatar
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    That's very interesting news indeed Daniel!

    At this point do you know if the bump map will be the same type used in fsx? There's an explanation of the different map types here:

    http://www.fsdeveloper.com/wiki/inde...l_map_creation

    Although in this case it needs to be assigned through the gmax material editor which it sounds like Ankor has cunningly side stepped for cfs3 :0)
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  4. #4
    SOH-CM-2017 Pat Pattle's Avatar
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    ...and thinking about it, would it work on all dds textures, thinking building and terrain types?
    CFS3 Battle of Britain Website: http://cfs3bob.wix.com/battle-of-britain
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  5. #5
    This is good news, I have a couple aircraft which would be great to try this on.

    Thanks

  6. #6
    Hi!
    Thanks gecko for posting it here.

    Sorry, I'm too busy today to explain all details.
    FSX format is supported - it is common format for storing normals. For this test though a simple grayscale height map saved as bmp will do (I will convert it as needed).

    You will be able to attach new texture to any model without editing its m3d by following a naming convention:
    If main texture is called "spitfire_ixc_t.dds" the FSX style normal map should be called "spitfire_ixc_t.+nm2.dds". I will explain these codes later.
    Additional texture can be applied to any m3d model, but NOT to the terrain or auto-generated scenery.

  7. #7
    Thanks. Is this going to be implemented in a similar way to what was already done to simulate bump mapping? We need to watch out for Moire Patterns being created. For example, the current shader makes the JU52 skin corrugations look really bad when viewed from a glancing angle.
    US Army, Major, Ret.

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  8. #8
    That is outstanding news, wish I was home right now and I could try this!
    Tom
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by MajorMagee View Post
    Thanks. Is this going to be implemented in a similar way to what was already done to simulate bump mapping? We need to watch out for Moire Patterns being created. For example, the current shader makes the JU52 skin corrugations look really bad when viewed from a glancing angle.
    Moire patterns are very hard to avoid.
    My shaders use anistropic filtering which makes textures sharper at glancing angles, and the stock CFS3 renderer just blurs textures in this case. Sharper textures naturally lead to moire effect.
    However I believe it is also aggravated by how CFS3 creates composite textures (if you apply any paint scheme to them, or to show damage marks) - they don't have mipmaps even if the source dds had them. This causes additional shimmering.

    I enabled automatic mipmap generation for ground textures in WOFF 2.0 and even then I still had to limit the anisotropic filtering there or the shimmering became unbearable.

    Is there a way to get that JU52 for tests? Maybe I should enable those auto mipmaps everywhere, but I need to see if there is really a benefit.

    This said, custom made normal maps should provide better quality than current color-difference ones. I still don't know to which extent though and that's why my humble request for a test sample still stands

  10. #10
    I am a newbie relating to the graphical CFS3 enhancement (shader settings modding) and with a stuff available here I got (aside the nice shiny effect) also a strange airplane texture bump/normalmap effect which I dont like - I even noticed it doesnt make it from the "_s" texture (which I could accept yet), but from the "_t" texture. this makes my airplane insignias looking in a "3d" form, for example...
    so any bit more serious solution would be welcome

    as to the DDS mipmaps - it means CSF3 does not use them? I am creating my textures alwayas mipmapped for all games, except some full screen / 2D sprites (non CFS3 stuff related).

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by BorekS View Post
    airplane texture bump/normalmap effect which I dont like - I even noticed it doesnt make it from the "_s" texture (which I could accept yet), but from the "_t" texture. this makes my airplane insignias looking in a "3d" form, for example...
    Yep, this is the side effect of the existing algorithm.
    This thread is about a new approach - the ability to provide a real normal map which should solve these "3D insignia" issues (of course if this new texture is provided).
    However, I think you have an interesting idea - generate bump map from "_s" texture instead of "_t" if the former is available. It may indeed look better. I haven't looked into it before because WOFF doesn't use _s textures at all.

    as to the DDS mipmaps - it means CSF3 does not use them? I am creating my textures alwayas mipmapped for all games, except some full screen / 2D sprites (non CFS3 stuff related).
    It does use them, but not in every case.
    When you add an insignia to an aircraft CFS3 creates a new texture in memory, copies original skin into it and then draws the insignia on top of that. Then this new texture is used on aircraft's model. The problem is as far as I can tell that new texture doesn't have mipmaps.
    I can enable DirectX feature allowing it to generate mipmaps automatically behind the scenes, but I'm not entirely sure it will help with aircraft skins.

  12. #12
    I'm sending you a copy of the Ju 52 files so you can see the effect. Please let me know if it comes through okay.
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  13. #13
    When you add an insignia to an aircraft CFS3 creates a new texture in memory, copies original skin into it and then draws the insignia on top of that. Then this new texture is used on aircraft's model.

    thanks for the explanation how it works with the aircraft emblems and such similar stuff from the MOS files, AnKor - I was affraid of the game performance slowdown because of the layered texture source, but now I get it much better

    well, I do not use such selectable MOS stuff sofar, all my needed markings are inpainted directly into the "t" texture. but I noticed some of the aircaft "s" specular map stuff made by other people or by microsoft (see
    me_262a_s.dds for example) contents the inpainted insignias, markings or such similar stuff from the "t" source... this is a bit unhappy solution because of the basic specular map logic itself (means basicaly white area is shiny, dark area is matt), I suppose.
    I personally am creating specular maps like a "clean" body texture, which can work bit better with the actual shader mods. but if WOFF or so on doesnt use specular maps, I understand it needs the shader modding solve the another way... and the new "_
    nm2.dds" approach just could solve it all greately!




  14. #14
    Like Borek, I don't use .mos overlays for the insignias either and the _s textures give specular shine in XP and Vista. This isn't supported in Win7 or 8.1 which don't support the old DX8 shaders needed by CFS3 for specular shine. I don't think many recent add-ons use the .mos overlay method at all.
    Tom
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    Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding. Proverbs 4:7

  15. #15
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    So basically.

    We're trying to incorporate something like this(JU52) in hopes of giving us something like this?(Ak74u)

    Cause that seems fairly simple!

    Minus the insignias and other details.

    Note: the Ak74u is BF2, which is also having this breakthrough.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Yes...jpg   Yeah...png  
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  16. #16
    SOH-CM-2017 Pat Pattle's Avatar
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    How's this going? Do you still need a texture AnKor? I've installed a Normal plugin for Paint Dot Net so can produce textures if required.

    This is the JU52, albeit downsized for forum posting.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails JU52_Trans_t.+nm2.jpg  
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  17. #17
    josepicos, Pat Pattle,
    yes, this is what I need.

    Can you upload a full uncompressed (i.e. not a JPG) version somewhere?
    And if you have a grayscale (a heightmap) version it will also be useful to me.
    Thanks!

    MajorMagee,
    I've looked at JU 52 model you've sent me and moire patterns are indeed quite prominent there. They aren't related to bump mapping though, they are result of sharper texture rendering with my shaders. I can't do much about them besides turning off anisotropic filtering. However, without AF some details (like markings on WWI planes in WOFF) become very blurred at glance angles. So I'm going to add an option into d3d8.ini to configure AF level to personal liking.

  18. #18
    Would it help if we removed the skin ribbing pattern from the texture and put into a bump map?
    US Army, Major, Ret.

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    US Army Ordnance Corps.

  19. #19
    I found that deleting the mos file from the model reduces moire, but you will lose the damage textures!
    John
    (DR/ MAW/ ETO/ PTO Textures)

    Keep it coming!

  20. #20
    I think MajorMagee has the right idea here of getting rid of the corrugation on the main texture, as the bump mapping will produce that effect dynamically. Having both at once will likely produce some very odd results.

  21. #21
    SOH-CM-2017 Pat Pattle's Avatar
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    Can you upload a full uncompressed (i.e. not a JPG) version somewhere?
    And if you have a grayscale (a heightmap) version it will also be useful to me.
    Thanks!
    You have pm Ankor.
    CFS3 Battle of Britain Website: http://cfs3bob.wix.com/battle-of-britain
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  22. #22
    Hi!
    Sorry for abrupt disappearance. Got too busy with real life stuff. I was going to release the beta of new shaders earlier this week, but it seems they won't be ready even this weekend.

    Yes, I think having both bump map and corrugation on the main texture may look weird, but I suppose you can't remove it on all existing skins anyway (I don't know how many are out there).
    Once it works you will be able to try of course

    I tried the texture by Pat Pattle and it really helped me to understand what I should work on.

    I will let everyone know when I have more news.

  23. #23
    I didn't realize you were this close! Looking forward to it!

  24. #24
    We'll be using this thread for an open discussion of the Beta testing a few of us are involved in. It should be at least somewhat instructive for those of you who are not directly involved, so thanks in advance for being patient with us while we sort things out.
    US Army, Major, Ret.

    Service To The Line,
    On The Line,
    On Time

    US Army Ordnance Corps.

  25. #25
    I thought the sun glare was a bit too overpowering, and seemed to be very sensitive to your viewing direction, so that with a slight turn of your head with TrackIR it would instantaneously flare up, or dim to nothing. I'm not sure it was the right place, but I went into Skybox.fx, and changed vs_glare from

    Diffuse = In.Diffuse * (1.2 * vSunScreenPos.w * (1.0 - smoothstep(1.2, 1.5, max(abs(vSunScreenPos.x),abs(vSunScreenPos.y)))) * (tex2Dlod(Tex0, float4(0.5,0.5, 0, 0)).x));

    to

    Diffuse = In.Diffuse * (1.05 * vSunScreenPos.w * (1.0 - smoothstep(1.2, 1.5, max(abs(vSunScreenPos.x),abs(vSunScreenPos.y)))) * (tex2Dlod(Tex0, float4(0.5,0.5, 0, 0)).x));

    and that seemed to settle things down.
    US Army, Major, Ret.

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    US Army Ordnance Corps.

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