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Thread: FSAddon European sales will stop

  1. #51
    Yes...... Amazon only pays 3-7% in Luxembourg..... But the 'fixing' does not apply to every shop owner and certainly NOT for those outside of the UK. Also, if you have other activities as well, you will not 'fit in' :-(
    François A. 'Navman' Dumas
    CEO and Chief Gopher of FSAddon Publishing

  2. #52
    SOH-CM-2020 Mickey D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Francois View Post
    Indeed. And maybe you haven't noticed, but 'third parties' cost money.... and are more expensive then providing one's own shop. Not to mention the lack of control over support and possible special deals.
    I sell through third parties and will of course continue to do so, but it is NOT the same as having one's own webshop......
    Well of course I've "noticed" and it's my choice if only I don't have the "hassle" of dealing with the EU. Any "cost" is built in to the price and I can let someone else do all the leg work of marketing etc. while I relax and let someone peel me a grape.
    MickeyD

  3. #53
    YOU don't have the hassle in any case, buying from me or elsewhere, but my authors and I have the financial loss in an already skinny business. That is why I am not happy with the EU rulings...... nothing to do with the customers of course.
    François A. 'Navman' Dumas
    CEO and Chief Gopher of FSAddon Publishing

  4. #54
    I understand your frustrations Francois and as a supplier outside of the EU it is going to affect us as well.

    Where previously we sold with no tax to overseas (non Australian) customers, we now have to include the VAT of the country or state of the purchaser.

    We have to join a "One Stop Shop" of our choice, selected from a list given by the VAT centre in Europe and report quarterly with payments. If we don't do this we have to register and report separately to every country or sate in which the customer resides. Can you imagine the paper work? This will no doubt incur transaction costs for banks, exchange rates and so on. And all for a taxation system that does not exist in Australia. We have GST at 10% payable on locally consumed goods. Bet that is going to change this year too now.

    Great environment in which to attempt to make a small business fly.

    Now we have bloody great flocks of government crows pecking at us the second we leave the ground. Another great move forward by the bureaucrats. Thanks very much fellas.

    I can't believe however, that withdrawing sales of any kind is going to help anybody. The idiots win, the consumer loses. And you my friend lose most of all. OK we all become tax collectors for a country we have never visited. So what's new these days?

  5. #55

    Exclamation

    Hello there Down Under !! Yes, exactly !

    Well, I am not withdrawing sales altogether, but I AM having to close my shop (already did) to implement another with software that is capable of VAT shenanigans..... and even after doing so, I will NOT sell to European customers because of the added administrative burden (you described it very well). It is just too much work for one guy alone who ALSO has to do other things to stay afloat !

    My new shop will sell to non-EU citizens and also non-download products to everybody. Using the 'old VAT system'. Until next year when they probably will also include tangible products nuder the same rules.

    The irony of it all is that they THOUGHT they were catching Amazon from not paying taxes. They wanted to punish THEM..... instead Amazon is laughing their heads off, because not only are they not paying ANYTHING in addition..... the CUSTOMERS are paying for the extra taxes ! But ALSO they are getting LOTS of small businesses to sell VIA THEM now and hence generate even more income for them!

    This is a LOSE-LOSE plan for small business and indeed, individual FREEDOM of labor, brough upon us by the morons from Brussels !

    Don't fear..... FSAddon products can be found on simMarket.com and Aerosoft.com (who both have the VATMOSS arrangement in place I am told) and by FSPilotShop.com (I will need to check their VAT arrangements though, because I am not convinced they are fully licensed for EU sales yet)

    Onwards through the fog .......
    François A. 'Navman' Dumas
    CEO and Chief Gopher of FSAddon Publishing

  6. #56
    What worries me most Francois is that somebody actually thought this would be a good idea. Remind me not to share a lifeboat with them.

    Have a great year anyway and bugger the lot of 'em.

  7. #57
    Roger that !!!
    François A. 'Navman' Dumas
    CEO and Chief Gopher of FSAddon Publishing

  8. #58
    Senior Administrator huub vink's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bazzar View Post
    What worries me most Francois is that somebody actually thought this would be a good idea. Remind me not to share a lifeboat with them.

    Have a great year anyway and bugger the lot of 'em.
    As already correctly mentioned by Lawman, this isn't an "European" idea born in the European Parliament . It is there just because the National Ministers of Finance want to have their own share of the taxes. The only way to arrange this for all countries in the European community is in the European Parliament.

    Although the practical implementation perhaps doesn't deserve the price for the best Idea of the Century, I think in general it isn't a very odd idea that (local) VAT is applicable on internet sales as well. Especially as tax-rates are decided on National level, based on National circumstances.

    The only way to get the implementation much easier is to agree on one single tax-rate inside the European community. But I don't think the readers of the Daily Mail and similar newspapers, will like these sort of decision to be taken in the European Parliament.

    I understand the decision taken by Francois and I respect his choices in this, but its a personal decision and really not bigger than that.

    Cheers,
    Huub

  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by huub vink View Post
    As already correctly mentioned by Lawman, this isn't an "European" idea born in the European Parliament . It is there just because the National Ministers of Finance want to have their own share of the taxes. The only way to arrange this for all countries in the European community is in the European Parliament.

    Although the practical implementation perhaps doesn't deserve the price for the best Idea of the Century, I think in general it isn't a very odd idea that (local) VAT is applicable on internet sales as well. Especially as tax-rates are decided on National level, based on National circumstances.

    The only way to get the implementation much easier is to agree on one single tax-rate inside the European community. But I don't think the readers of the Daily Mail and similar newspapers, will like these sort of decision to be taken in the European Parliament.

    I understand the decision taken by Francois and I respect his choices in this, but its a personal decision and really not bigger than that.

    Cheers,
    Huub
    I couldn't agree more with you Huub! Thanks for sharing this.

    Dumonceau

  10. #60
    I doubt there will be ANY change taken on this, in spite of growing protest and a growing number of small businesses going out of (European) business.

    I have initated request for the additional VAT registration program (MOSS) now, because splitting the shop (ANY shop) into EU and non-EU, digital and non-digital is even a BIGGER burden than the added administration.
    I am in no way certain I will be able to manage it all, but refuse to give up without a fight.
    François A. 'Navman' Dumas
    CEO and Chief Gopher of FSAddon Publishing

  11. #61
    It will affect everybody. Not only EU members. The devs and publishers will need to add the VAT rate of the particular location of a customer to their pricing so care will need to be taken on setting the base price so that the offering is still appealing to a customer. Where a customer did not pay tax (as on our products) they will from now on. For them that is a price hike. Unless they can claim the tax back somehow. With some tax rates exceeding 20% that is effectively an average rise of that amount. Of course the supplier can always reduce the base price to compensate but that means a 20% drop in revenue. And who can afford that these days?

    Our government has openly stated that it will be chasing down ways of applying GST (10% goods and service tax in Oz) to all ebay purchases. It will not be too long before a reciprocal agreement is made between Australia and the EU and that GST (or higher) will have to be paid by any Worldwide customer buying ebay goods from Australia.

    They are closing the doors on just about every advantage that electronic "shopping" represents to a consumer.

    This is a massive opportunity to gather revenue to cover the inadequacies of various governments' financial management of spiraling infrastructure costs, massive public service salary hikes and poor capital purchase decisions.

    It is nothing new, the public will bear the burden as usual.

  12. #62
    why dont you just join with an American partner and host everything on a US or 3rd country web site then sell online?

  13. #63
    Because...

    Quote from Taxamo site:

    The rules have actually been longstanding, since 2003. If you are, for example, an American digital service supplier to the EU, then you should be already registered for the non-Union MOSS scheme. In the UK, currently, this is called the VAT on eServices (VOES) scheme. This scheme becomes the non-Union scheme on January 1, 2015.
    There is already an obligation to level the playing field. The fact that you are in America or China, the obligation and requirement is the same.
    What we [HMRC] and other EU tax authorities are doing is if we found that one of these businesses is non-compliant then through treaties arrangements that we have with the jurisdictions, through information exchange or debt recovery, we would then approach the authorities in those other states to take action to help us to get the debt paid.
    Those arrangements are going to be reinforced, and strengthened, effectively in the coming months and years to make sure that there aren’t jurisdictions out there where someone could effectively hide and make those supplies without properly declaring.

  14. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by ejoiner View Post
    why dont you just join with an American partner and host everything on a US or 3rd country web site then sell online?

    Actually e-shops in the US ALSO have to collect and distribute the VAT of the country in Europe they are selling to ! In fact it is mandatory to do so since 2003 already ! But most chose to ignore that ruling ;-)
    It is believed that the EU is having talks with the US to help them enforce that rule from now on !!
    François A. 'Navman' Dumas
    CEO and Chief Gopher of FSAddon Publishing

  15. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Francois View Post
    Actually e-shops in the US ALSO have to collect and distribute the VAT of the country in Europe they are selling to ! In fact it is mandatory to do so since 2003 already ! But most chose to ignore that ruling ;-)
    It is believed that the EU is having talks with the US to help them enforce that rule from now on !!
    Time for a Boston e-party then? LOL
    Tom
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  16. #66
    At least in the EU you can sue people like PMDG for accidentally (or intentionally) deactivating your product and then not answering to their mails regarding the matter, and generally breaking the EU consumer law regarding software refunds and reselling. Friend of mine from Finland claims to have sued them for this. EU at least has some consumer rights that doesn't allow companies to rip off or inflate their pricing or mistreat their customers, this is a good thing.

    No fan of the EU myself though, despite these good things there is way too much bureocracy and many policies that just end up hurting themselves. There is too many for me to go on about, and too political. If certain companies decide to stop selling to EU, they can do so. But I am warning you, not only to EU. To Belarus you also can't sell legally to it's citizens unless you applied for a permission to do so and pay VAT to their government. Even worse

  17. #67
    Hahaha ! Boston e-Party sounds good
    François A. 'Navman' Dumas
    CEO and Chief Gopher of FSAddon Publishing

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