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Thread: FSAddon European sales will stop

  1. #26
    I'm sorry to hear this as well. But thank you for sorting out the website issue for me. I'm thoroughly enjoying the Liz and Glad!

    Todd

  2. #27
    It is 'just' my own shop, yes and just for European downloads. Still, it is part of my independence and what I worked on for the past 10 years.

    But as a famous character said repeatedly: I'LL BE BACK !
    François A. 'Navman' Dumas
    CEO and Chief Gopher of FSAddon Publishing

  3. #28
    Jeesh, I didn't know this was the Daily Mail-forum. Fact is you're all blaming the wrong organisation; the real culprits are the national politicians.
    TFZ-034
    "I fought the law and the law won ..."

  4. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Lawman View Post
    Jeesh, I didn't know this was the Daily Mail-forum. Fact is you're all blaming the wrong organisation; the real culprits are the national politicians.
    I agree. But the national policians "blame it on Europe"... Have that repeated enough in the mainstream press, et voilà: misinformation!

    But, a happy 2015 to all!

    D.

  5. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Francois View Post
    It is 'just' my own shop, yes and just for European downloads. Still, it is part of my independence and what I worked on for the past 10 years.

    But as a famous character said repeatedly: I'LL BE BACK !
    Francois, have you considered using this firm? http://www.taxamo.com/
    They will handle all of the work for you
    Taxamo is completely free to use up to 20 transactions a month.

    After that, fees begin at €0.20c per transaction, and decrease based on the volume of transactions. There is no sign-up fee and no ongoing monthly fees.
    Bill Leaming
    3d Modeler Max/GMax
    C & XML Gauge Programmer

    Military Visualizations
    http://milviz.com

    Intel® Core™ i7-3770k 4.2GHz - Crucial 16GB DDR3 - Dual Radeon HD770 1GB DDR5 (Crossfire) - Eco II Watercooling - Win7 64bit
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  6. #31
    Yes, I have considered quite a few options. Fact remains the responsibility will remain on MY doorstep and I will have to deliver a lot of documentation to my local tax inspectors...... it just doesn't add up.
    So for now I will only sell our products through other distributors, and take the financial hit of that..... until there is no longer a profit worth working for.

    I hope to open up a new shop..... as soon as I can figure out how to prevent Europeans buying from it.
    François A. 'Navman' Dumas
    CEO and Chief Gopher of FSAddon Publishing

  7. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Francois View Post
    I hope to open up a new shop..... as soon as I can figure out how to prevent Europeans buying from it.
    Francois, my Grandfather was Welsh so does that make me non-European?

    Sometimes I think the 'red tape' should be on the mouths of those in charge...

    Keep up the great work sir!

    Dave.

  8. #33
    What these new practices mean from customer's point of view?

    This morning (1.1.2015) I had in my EMail box a newsletter from Simmarket. Went to the Internet shop and found out that now I have to pay Finland's overhelming 24% VAT for any purchase! That's among the biggest in whole EU. Well, I must now consider where to buy or buy at all because whole EU is now as expensive as Finland (one of the most expensive countries in the whole world).

    As I told in my first message. EU is shooting it's own leg with this "lose-lose" politics.

    Pekka

  9. #34
    SOH-CM-2020 Mickey D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHo17 View Post
    What these new practices mean from customer's point of view?

    This morning (1.1.2015) I had in my EMail box a newsletter from Simmarket. Went to the Internet shop and found out that now I have to pay Finland's overhelming 24% VAT for any purchase! That's among the biggest in whole EU. Well, I must now consider where to buy or buy at all because whole EU is now as expensive as Finland (one of the most expensive countries in the whole world).

    As I told in my first message. EU is shooting it's own leg with this "lose-lose" politics.

    Pekka
    If one repeatedly shoots oneself in the foot then one should at least shoot through the same hole.

    I have contacted our vendors and it does seem to mean that as the retailers it is their responsibility to charge VAT at the rate according to the country in which the purchaser resides irrespective of where the store is based. Also they have to keep full details of the purchase and the purchaser for 10 years as I read it. Many retailers may decide to bar sales to EU countries altogether due to the hassle. At the very least it means that EU customers will be discriminated against and prices will rise by around 20% or so. Developers who supply the retailers are not affected as they don't sell direct. Happy New Year.
    MickeyD

  10. #35
    SOH-CM-2017 DaveB's Avatar
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    I've been charged VAT (at the going rate) by Simmarket for ages so there's nothing new in this. Disappointingly.. the price quoted by default in Euros is generally what you end up paying in GBP which hardly seems right. How some folk have managed to avoid this in the past (and I know a few that have) is beyond me but there you go. The only sure fire way to know what you're gonna end up paying is to buy (in the UK) from UK vendors as these generally publish the total cost including VAT.

    ATB
    DaveB

  11. #36
    The difference now is that Simmarket's VAT charge will be dependent on the country the buyer is located in, rather than the country Simmarket is based (Germany as far as I recall). For Miguel and Team I think it's more admin, or at least changes to the store to cover the individual VAT charges per EU member country rather than the blanket x percent for Germany.

    For non EU stores it's business as usual really.

    Here's a handy table I found online..

    http://www.happybootstrapper.com/wp-...anges_2015.png

    That all being said, I feel for Francois, everyone has a line in relation to how much admin is too much for the return you get.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  12. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Smudge View Post
    For non EU stores it's business as usual really. .
    So in other words relocating the store to a place/server outside the EU would do the trick?

    Dumonceau

  13. #38
    SOH-CM-2017 DaveB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smudge View Post
    The difference now is that Simmarket's VAT charge will be dependent on the country the buyer is located in, rather than the country Simmarket is based (Germany as far as I recall). For Miguel and Team I think it's more admin, or at least changes to the store to cover the individual VAT charges per EU member country rather than the blanket x percent for Germany.

    For non EU stores it's business as usual really.

    Here's a handy table I found online..

    http://www.happybootstrapper.com/wp-...anges_2015.png

    That all being said, I feel for Francois, everyone has a line in relation to how much admin is too much for the return you get.
    Rgr that Dave. If I'm not mistaken.. we've been hit here for 19% VAT regardless of what our VAT rate was so this may actually make things a little more fair (not that I'm saying having to pay VAT on flightsim software is fair anyway)!!!

    ATB
    DaveB

  14. #39
    Charter Member 2012 nigel richards's Avatar
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    Never give in!

    My sympathy is with you, Francois - take courage from these words;

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uKm5pD7GWM
    Most men often say what they think!
    An honest man usually means what he says!
    A gentleman always says what he means!

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  15. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Dumonceau View Post
    So in other words relocating the store to a place/server outside the EU would do the trick?

    Dumonceau
    Not really, as what's coming in now is already the norm for non-EU businesses.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  16. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Dumonceau View Post
    So in other words relocating the store to a place/server outside the EU would do the trick?

    Dumonceau
    Nope.

    Although it will be difficult for the EU to 'attack' foreign sellers, officially ANY store selling to a EU citizen needs to charge the VAT in that citizen's country and PAY the respective government its share. It does NOT make a difference whether you are in the EU, the US or China !
    Of course having a store and paying taxes inside the EU makes it that much more easy for them to fine you into oblivion if you do not adhere to these unfair tax law !

    But it is a mistake to believe that US companies do not have t pay. In fact, they HAD to pay already since 2003 ! But most just ignored it and it wasn't well known to the majority of store owners and customers.
    François A. 'Navman' Dumas
    CEO and Chief Gopher of FSAddon Publishing

  17. #42

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickey D View Post
    Developers who supply the retailers are not affected as they don't sell direct. Happy New Year.
    Not true either.

    1. Depending upon location of the retailer's customer and the retailer's shop, products MAY become more expensive for the consumer. And hence deter from buying !

    2. Developers may be forced to go to a retailer/distributor that charges more than their previous one (!)

    3. Remaining retailers will get a larger share of the market, enhancing their 'monopoly' and allowing them to take an even bigger cut of the developer's share. Not saying they will, but they could. Less competition !

    This new law is bad for ALL involved: customers, developers and small companies.

    The only ones benefiting are the EU governments and the larger retailers.

    It does NOT change anything for customers OUTSIDE the EU buying from within. It does not change anything for the ones downloading pirated software. And it does not change a thing for Amazon.com, which was the primary goal of this law !
    François A. 'Navman' Dumas
    CEO and Chief Gopher of FSAddon Publishing

  18. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by DaveB View Post
    I've been charged VAT (at the going rate) by Simmarket for ages so there's nothing new in this. Disappointingly.. the price quoted by default in Euros is generally what you end up paying in GBP which hardly seems right. How some folk have managed to avoid this in the past (and I know a few that have) is beyond me but there you go. The only sure fire way to know what you're gonna end up paying is to buy (in the UK) from UK vendors as these generally publish the total cost including VAT.

    ATB
    DaveB

    Unfortunately it was correct. The UK is part of the EU and hence EU companies were forced to charge their local VAT to UK customers all along. Not simMarket's fault.
    François A. 'Navman' Dumas
    CEO and Chief Gopher of FSAddon Publishing

  19. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Francois View Post
    ...
    This new law is bad for ALL involved: customers, developers and small companies.

    The only ones benefiting are the EU governments and the larger retailers.
    I couldn't agree more.

    It does NOT change anything for customers OUTSIDE the EU buying from within. It does not change anything for the ones downloading pirated software. And it does not change a thing for Amazon.com, which was the primary goal of this law !
    Even that may not be true in near future. Didn't you know that EU and USA are planing a free trade pact. This is made in secret. At least in my country (Finland) politicians don't speak anything about this (though those that are at the top of hierarcy must know it). I think it is the same thing in other EU countries. If this comes true this new taxing system will possibly be used also in trade between EU and USA.

    Politicians say that they are conserned of constantly growing unimployment. This policy increases it because small companies are the ones that emply most! Only bureaucrats can have confidence in their jobs.

    Pekka

  20. #45
    SOH-CM-2020 Mickey D's Avatar
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    The new rules only affect direct sales of digital data. If you sell through a third party site the new regulations do NOT apply to the developer. See the UK government Flow Chart. It is quite plain. https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...Flow_chart.pdf
    MickeyD

  21. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by PHo17 View Post
    Even that may not be true in near future. Didn't you know that EU and USA are planing a free trade pact. This is made in secret. At least in my country (Finland) politicians don't speak anything about this (though those that are at the top of hierarcy must know it). I think it is the same thing in other EU countries. If this comes true this new taxing system will possibly be used also in trade between EU and USA.
    Just for the record, the free trade negotiations between EU and USA are by no means a secret. The fact is that those negotiations just started and most likely will take several years IF an agreement is finally achieved. There is probably not much to tell at this point and free trade agreement is a package where practically every industry sector will be dealt separately and both parties do have interests they would like to protect. It is and will be a sweaty negotiation. Most likely the most difficult areas concern all heavy industry products, such as cars and industrial machinery and possibly agriculture products. Local politicians aren't informing people also because the negotiations aren't made on a national level, but solely between EU and USA. The aim is clear, remove the protectionism such as customs and other import-export limiting factors between these two parties.

    I'm all for free trade and removing protectionism so I really hope that an agreement is achieved, even if it takes a decade.

    I also agree that EU is doing stupid things with many of its regulation. It seems that in most cases these regulations hurt the smaller companies and entrepreneurs the most and larger ones with proper accounting and legal resources thrive. In the long run this drives smaller companies out of business or it simply moves away outside of the EU, where companies don't have to adhere to these rules. All this again decreases competition within EU, diminishes tax revenue and increases unemployment. Improved competition was paradoxically one of the main goals of the EU with its one economic area. Not good.

  22. #47

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickey D View Post
    The new rules only affect direct sales of digital data. If you sell through a third party site the new regulations do NOT apply to the developer. See the UK government Flow Chart. It is quite plain. https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...Flow_chart.pdf
    Indeed. And maybe you haven't noticed, but 'third parties' cost money.... and are more expensive then providing one's own shop. Not to mention the lack of control over support and possible special deals.
    I sell through third parties and will of course continue to do so, but it is NOT the same as having one's own webshop......
    François A. 'Navman' Dumas
    CEO and Chief Gopher of FSAddon Publishing

  23. #48
    our politicians and tax bureaucrats have decided that they will rather have people go to welfare and spend tax payers money than to work hard and make an honest buck.
    Welcome to the beginnings of the new world order, one world government.How many here in the states are finding the "affordable health care act" isn't so affordable.Its a shame we as citizens have lost sight of what the USA was so strongly fought for when we first broke away from the British controls. Now we all have been reeled back in, and everyone is just letting it happen. One day that Constitution of our is going to be all but a memory; a piece of paper in a glass cabinet in some Museum we can go view and think of what once was.You probably think I'm full of it, crazy talk: We all need to wake up!!

  24. #49
    Members + trucker17's Avatar
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    Sorry to hear that Francois......
    That really sucks.....Hope you an find away for them to keep getting your products....
    SoCal Y22......North Pole, Alaska

  25. #50
    From what I can understand, the British Government are trying to "fix it" so that this doesn't apply to small retailers. It's the big boy's like Amazon and Apple that their gunning for.


    Ian

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