London-Melbourne 2014: 119 Piccadilly
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  1. #1
    SOH-CM-2019 MM's Avatar
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    London-Melbourne 2014: 119 Piccadilly

    Inquiries for Miss Nellie and the Organizing Committee


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    Miss Nellie and her crackerjack staff will be monitoring the race from the Royal Aero Club's headquarters here at 119 Picadilly, Westminster, London. If you would like to communicate with the Committee, please post your questions, reactions, and comments here. (If you prefer a less public channel, please use the forum's Private Message system.)
    -Mike

  2. #2
    Will this duenna link be ok to post, http://fs-duenna.com/flights/ShowFli...3J86F8WIJYEka0
    or do we need to post the separate map and text files?

  3. #3
    Senior Administrator PRB's Avatar
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    I will "import" the duenna text files into the race tracking site for each leg. While I can find it from the link you posted, it will save me a couple of steps if you post the actual text file.
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    SOH-CM-2019 MM's Avatar
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    We ask that you do both. The posted jpg and textfile provide an immediate record that everyone can see as they follow your thread. And the authentication is located on the SOH server. The tracking site's record provides the same and more detailed information. And it is located on a different server, although one over which we have no control. Each serves as a backup against the other...in case we have a failure.

    If you feel comfortable doing just one or the other, then fine. Others have done so in the past. (Note that your having just one version may make the Committee' work a bit more difficult. We mildly prefer having both sets of authentications.)

    Oops, late post. ...as Paul says above.
    -Mike

  5. #5
    Senior Administrator PRB's Avatar
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    Just to add to Mike's post, imagine Miss Nellie getting "irritated", tapping her pencil on the desk, while taking the extra steps... Not something you need, on top of the airmanship challenges we're already dealing with...
    Last edited by PRB; October 20th, 2014 at 15:53. Reason: Ha, imagine Miss Nellie's irritaion if you spell her name wrong!
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  6. #6
    Roger on the two, map jpg and text postings. Do not want to get on Miss Nellie's bad side.

  7. #7
    SOH-CM-2019 MM's Avatar
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    Using Opus and FSGRW, and a Duenna false report

    Rushed upstairs to peer through the glass door to Miss Nellie's office. She was sitting at her desk, staring at the entry list, and humming with the barest hint of excitement. After a quick knock, I entered and handed her the last two inquiries about weather engines. And then added a more curious one about a false report of in-flight refueling. She examined the information, held up her index finger to request silence, and made a quiet phone call.
    The weather matters seem easily resolved. The pilots merely need to follow the spirit of the instructions. If they are to use an auxiliary weather program, they need to be sure that it generates live real weather in a manner that is at least as realistic as the default (Jeppesen-sourced) engine. That is to say: The weather engine depicts the current real world weather and it changes over time as weather stations are newly updated. The winds are not made artificially constant for takeoff or landing. Winds aloft, at high altitude, represent those in the real world and are not made artificially constant over the flight path. Program-induced maximum visibility limits are fine, minimum visibility limits are not. The weather at a distant destination aerodrome may change over time as the pilot flies the leg. And so forth.

    As far as we know, Opus supplies the winds aloft from its own sources and does not need to have the default engine's "download winds aloft" setting. If we hear otherwise, the ruling will change.

    The second request is to use FS Global Real Weather (FSGRW) which also inserts its own weather representation into FSX (and FS2004 and P3D). We do not have a direct source as to its operation or suitability for this event. However, the professional reviews (and forum chatter) indicate that it is comparable to Active Sky and Opus in their development path. Tell the requesting pilot that he may use FSGRW as long as he emphasizes realism and dynamics in his settings. From a distance, that means that he:

    • Chooses Dynamic Weather
    • Allows weather updates while on the ground
    • Uses the high altitude realism options (even if he is not flying at altitude, we want to be consistent)
    • Optionally employs natural wind movements (they are ok) if he wishes
    • Enables other options set toward realism -- as he prefers.

    We emphasize comparability to the MSFS default weather engines with dynamic weather chosen. Some of these programs have plenty of extra features such as wake turbulence, enhanced mountain thermals, special densities for clouds, hurricanes, and so on. While admirable enhancements for our testing event, these features are not required.

    It will be good to have the young fellow tell us his experiences with using FSGRW in this sort of event.

    Finally, we have the instance of the Duenna monitor falsely reporting that the Lancair IVP added fuel when it did not. Apparently, some advanced models simulate the fuel flow in a way that works around the standard fuel weight in a way that keys the Duenna's false reports. We have had similar anomalies before. In these instances, as long as the pilot reports the case openly and quickly, then we can closely examine the flight record to insure that the apparent fuel addition did not affect the competition. This work-around suffice until we obtain a technical solution.

    I smiled and quickly left the office. "This is going to be easy this year," I said to myself. "Everything is going to be routine…"
    -Mike

  8. #8
    Wow! The efficiency round here is scary! For my part, I'm going to adhere to the original instructions and configure FSX to El Duenna's liking, as I'm pretty certain that Opus and ASN over-ride FSX anyway...I think.

    The phantom fuel filling will be negated by the judicious use of properly prepared flight plans that, hopefully, won't necessitate the insertion of an ad hoc waypoint.


    That's my weeks supply of big words all used up!

  9. #9

    Icon22 Fueling question

    If a pilot wanted to fly say the Puss Moth or any of the other range challenged aircraft that actually flew in the real race ... could consideration be made for fueling besides at only the prepared airports that are in the Official Control or Checking Point List?

    Could the pilot maybe submit for approval a list of specified airports from the Unofficial Airports List that would allow covering these spans prior to starting the event and perhaps be held to those airports only without additional minutes added and no consideration if an alternate had to be used?



    "My Hildegard" may not make it to Marseille without some pretty stiff tailwinds and there are five more legs that are questionable if not impossible for it to make.

    How in the world could young Jimmy make it back home in 2nd place (Handicapped) to a DC-2 .... [the only solo pilot to finish BTW] ... with all those bloomin' penalty (doubled) minutes?

    salt_air

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by salt_air View Post
    If a pilot wanted to fly say the Puss Moth or any of the other range challenged aircraft that actually flew in the real race ... could consideration be made for fueling besides at only the prepared airports that are in the Official Control or Checking Point List?

    Could the pilot maybe submit for approval a list of specified airports from the Unofficial Airports List that would allow covering these spans prior to starting the event and perhaps be held to those airports only without additional minutes added and no consideration if an alternate had to be used?

    "My Hildegard" may not make it to Marseille without some pretty stiff tailwinds and there are five more legs that are questionable if not impossible for it to make.

    How in the world could young Jimmy make it back home in 2nd place (Handicapped) to a DC-2 .... [the only solo pilot to finish BTW] ... with all those bloomin' penalty (doubled) minutes?
    Hmm, but wouldn't that effectively eliminate some of the challenge? My choice is going to be the Caudron C.450. At full throttle I can get anywhere from 440 to 540 nm out of it, depending on altitude. In order to traverse some of the longer legs, I have to throttle it back quite a bit, giving up on my top speed. In fact, some of the strategy becomes whether it's beneficial for me to throttle back and skip optional waypoints, trying to save on ground time at the expense of a slower overall speed. Although, I'm not sure how much is gained by throttling back the Puss Moth... one might be better served by a brisk walk, I suppose!!

  11. #11

    Icon22

    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyRFR View Post
    Hmm, but wouldn't that effectively eliminate some of the challenge? My choice is going to be the Caudron C.450. At full throttle I can get anywhere from 440 to 540 nm out of it, depending on altitude. In order to traverse some of the longer legs, I have to throttle it back quite a bit, giving up on my top speed. In fact, some of the strategy becomes whether it's beneficial for me to throttle back and skip optional waypoints, trying to save on ground time at the expense of a slower overall speed. Although, I'm not sure how much is gained by throttling back the Puss Moth... one might be better served by a brisk walk, I suppose!!
    Hi Jimmy ...


    Agree fully, but in the case of the Puss Moth I'm not seeing any engine settings that would allow for that leg out of Greece into Syria ... especially in any sort of wind.

    Any consideration would need to be for all pilots that faced those same conditions.



    Hat's off big time to you and the Caudron .... had my hands on it early to see if I could make it work and decided to fly another aircraft.

    You'll have your hands full and a big round of applause from me and a cold beverage of choice when you get to Essendon!
    salt_air

  12. #12
    SOH-CM-2019 MM's Avatar
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    Again, up the circular stairs to Miss Nellie's domain. Opened the door, whispered Puss Moth, and handed the boss a Western Union telegram.
    She opened up the file drawer and pulled out a manila envelope. And nodded.

    For Milton Shupe's Puss Moth, the author provides an option to add tanks to reflect the fact that the aircraft was often used in long distance flight via installing increased fuel capacity. From the Installation notes:

    "3. I provided many tank options in the aircraft.cfg for mileage ranges stated. Simply comment out the default and uncomment out the desired tankage."

    If the young man would like to fly the Puss Moth with the Jimmy Melrose tanks, please let us know. The plane is certainly eligible. We shall send it down to Tex Winter's shop for evaluation. They will work out a handicap number that takes into account the increased range. (If no one wants to fly the Puss Moth, we won't put the demand on Tex's precious time.)

    In the papers there is some news about a newly released increased-tank-capacity Miles Falcon Major by Keith Paine. If someone wants to fly that aircraft in the event, he should let us know and Tex will put it through the testing regime.

    I turned on my heels, closed the door, and whistled my way down the stairs. "Gonna be easy this year…"
    -Mike

  13. #13

    Icon22

    Ah yes! .... "Read the Book".

    I misremembered having that documentation at hand ... thanks Mike!



    Appears that there are several tank combinations available.

    I will have to run some numbers myself, but please let Tex know that I will post as soon as I can the desired tank option and will be grateful for him putting the new figures through the testing regime.

    Proposal for use of TBD tank option should be ready for dispatch to 119 Piccadilly in very short order.



    It's as if Miss Nellie knew this was going to happen .... she continues to grow wiser as more events go by.

    For all of the trips up and down the circular stairs I have manged to orchestrate or otherwise be responsible for over the years .... I feel that I should donate a large portion of the proceeds (prize money) towards the installation of a lift at 119.



    To be clear .... Can any of the tank options that Milton wrote can be utilized?

    Also would it suffice to include the intended tank option in the registration post or would Tex rather I reply with that info here ..... or both?



    Thanks again Mike .... please give a tip of the hat to Miss Nellie for me .... off to the drawing board.
    salt_air

  14. #14
    Ahem... A nervous telegram has hastily been delivered to the offices at 119 Piccadilly.

    It reads:

    Please check Jimmy's flight from EGUN into LIRU [stop]
    Many inconsistencies in flight log [stop]
    Flight topped thirteen thousand nine hundred feet [stop]
    Crash landed [stop]
    Pilot survived [stop]

  15. #15
    Another message for 119 Piccadilly!

    Skippy reports climbing to 12222' avoiding a thunderstorm on the coast of Turkey[stop]
    Requests clarification if this is sufficient mitigation for exceeding 12000'[stop]
    Will return Athens forthwith if required[stop]

  16. #16
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    @SkippyBing. Miss Nellie seems busy and I dare not disturb her. Here my own quick judgment subject to further review.

    You (or any pilot) may not exceed a ceiling in order to climb over a storm. If a storm thrusts you upward momentarily and you get back down to your cruising altitude quickly, then all is fine. The Duenna log will report your cruising altitude and indicate whether you are maintaining that "high"altitude or just got bounced for a few seconds.

    If the event is as you described -- that you intentionally flew above the ceiling for a storm -- you would normally have to return to Athens and re-fly the leg. If you were bumped upward for just a moment, then you would not.

    In this case, make your own judgment. Were you purposefully flying above the ceiling (for several minutes) or did you just "pop up"? If the latter (or close to the latter), then proceed. You exceeded the limit by only 200 feet. If you were above the ceiling for quite a while (cruising high), then please return to Athens.

    (Making a real time suggestion: if you can "catch yourself" so that you are above the limit for less than 10 minutes, in this one instance, you may return to a proper altitude and proceed. We are all on the learning curve. But if you have been maintaining that altitude for a while, you will want to start over...without penalty.)


    Quote Originally Posted by SkippyBing View Post
    Another message for 119 Piccadilly!

    Skippy reports climbing to 12222' avoiding a thunderstorm on the coast of Turkey[stop]
    Requests clarification if this is sufficient mitigation for exceeding 12000'[stop]
    Will return Athens forthwith if required[stop]
    -Mike

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by MM View Post
    Miss Nellie seems busy and I dare not disturb her. Here my own quick judgment subject to further review.

    You (or any pilot) may not exceed a ceiling in order to climb over a storm. If a storm thrusts you upward momentarily and you get back down to your cruising altitude quickly, then all is fine. The Duenna log will report your cruising altitude and indicate whether you are maintaining that "high"altitude or just got bounced for a few seconds.

    If the event is as you described -- that you intentionally flew above the ceiling for a storm -- you would normally have to return to Athens and re-fly the leg. If you were bumped upward for just a moment, then you would not.

    In this case, make your own judgment. Were you purposefully flying above the ceiling (for several minutes) or did you just "pop up"? If the latter (or close to the latter), then proceed. You exceeded the limit by only 200 feet. If you were above the ceiling for quite a while (cruising high), then please return to Athens.

    (Making a real time suggestion: if you can "catch yourself" so that you are above the limit for less than 10 minutes, in this one instance, you may return to a proper altitude and proceed. We are all on the learning curve. But if you have been maintaining that altitude for a while, you will want to start over...without penalty.)
    Thanks Mike,

    I'll continue to Baghdad at this stage and await the final verdict there. I think it was only a momentary climb as I was aiming to be at 11,500', where I could just about make out blue above, but was momentarily distracted and then realised I'd bust the soft ceiling so quickly dropped down to 10,000' at which point I broke clear of the weather system!
    Still could have been worse, I could have misidentified a lake in Turkey and made an unnecessary course correction...

    Skippy

  18. #18
    Landed in OR1A, official scored correctly[stop]
    Took off exact same place as landed[stop]
    MacRoberston official says T/O was at Z15O[stop]
    No such airport Z15O in 9/X[stop]
    Roman

  19. #19
    Log for the flight where I exceeded 12000' attached, as I thought a one off as the rest of the recorded altitudes are around 10000' apart from one at 11787'. I really should have paid for something more than a basic pitch hold autopilot...

    I respectfully await Miss Nellie and the committees decision, if needed I shall be in Baghdad's souk district.

    FlightLog_15-20-33.TXT

  20. #20
    SOH-CM-2019 MM's Avatar
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    @spokes2112. No worries. The race officials at the Jaap van Hees aerodromes will often be confused.
    -Mike

  21. #21
    Another telegram for 119 Piccadilly

    JimmyRFR reports plane fixed [stop]
    Ready departure to Athens [stop]
    Awaiting decision on validity of last leg flown [stop]
    Will re-fly last leg if needed [stop]
    Hopes weather fine in London [stop]


  22. #22
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    A frantic first day with may aircraft in the air all at once. At the Club's desks, we on staff were kept busy compiling the reports from our observers in the field. We had several incidents that need some attention. Perhaps this may not be as easy as I had hoped…

    Up the circular staircase, climbing heavily as I clutched a manila folder full of telegrams. They didn't shoot the messenger from Marathon, did they?

    I knocked, entered, and gingerly handed Miss Nellie the bundle of problems. She looked at her watch, sighed, and commenced to read the first case.


    After a while, she motioned for me to sit down.
    1. First, the straightforward falcon409 crash on landing at Rome's LIRA. (EGUN-LIRA) This was apparently due to a scenery anomaly. While expressing our sympathies, there is little that the staff can do to change the result.

    Ruling. The first crash-on-landing is a simple 15 minute penalty.

    2. Willy had the dreaded "Duenna forgets to pick up the baton" experience. (LFPB-LFML) According to the pilot's testimony, the "Autoarm" button was ticked but the program did not do as expected. A glitch of course, but then it is the responsibility of the pilot to get the Duenna running properly. Happily, in this instance the pilot remembered to take a screenshot of his "Flight Analysis Screen" which can, in some circumstances, serve as a substitute for the Duenna. The young man is lucky on this instance as everything indicates that all was well with the flight. Be he should not believe that he can continue repeating this mistake.

    (It should be noted that we have one pilot who cannot make the Duenna work on his machine. We are allowing him to substitute the Flight Analysis Screen for the Duenna simply because his computer will not cooperate. His special circumstance is distinct from the normal pilot who forgets to engage the Duenna or has a Duenna malfunction.)

    Ruling. We shall accept the Screen Analysis screenshot in this instance. The leg stands.

    3. Ron Attwood had two problems. (YMEN-YBCV) The first was an Out of Memory error (OOM) as he departed Essendon while using the Orbx scenery. This experience led to the NOTAM recommending that pilots using the full-fat Orbx Australia be sure to turn down their scenery settings when departing from or arriving at Essendon. Being a computer-only problem, the pilot simply reported the incident and restarted the leg. A non-event.

    The second problem is a computer-controller glitch en route. At one moment, when the pilot was shifting from the internal view to the external view (using a programmed button on his controller), the aircraft surprising refilled the tanks with fuel. Those on the scene attest to the pilot's shock and puzzlement. A close examination of the Duenna confirms the report. The accidental refueling, in this case, did not have an impact on the nature of the leg, which was much shorter than the aircraft's full-fuel range. Seeing no possible competitive advantage, and accepting the testimony of the witnesses, we rule that this was one of those computer glitches that do not present any difficulty. Note, however, that this glitch cannot continue to plague the run. The pilot should make an effort to understand why the "view shift" button produced a refueling with this particular aircraft. He should effect a remedy.

    Ruling. The leg stands as filed.

    4. Spartan pilot spokes2112 reported a crash-on-landing on his arrival at Athens LGTT. (EGUN-LGTT) (He is using the Jaap van Hees vintage MacRobertson scenery.) Verbal testimony at the time, using vigorous language, indicated that the pilot had hit a building in the darkness. The Duenna record shows the pilot in the process of landing at the field, some 40 feet above the runway. The leg had been completed and the pilot was in the final circuit. This is a crash-on-landing.

    Note that this "final circuit" or a "short finals" are distinct from a descent or "distant" approach, say several miles out, in which a pilot might hit a mountainside. This second situation is a "mid-air" incident rather than a "crash-on-landing" and carries a more consequential penalty (1 hour penalty plus the need to re-fly the leg).

    Ruling. The first crash-on-landing is a simple 15 minute penalty.

    5. Beech Boy 2 jt_dub experienced a computer failure but was able to persist. While en route, flying on multiplayer, he was cut from the server. Both FSX and the Duenna froze. Eventually, FSX restarted as though it were normal. The Duenna asked if the pilot would like to continue offline and he replied in the affirmative. The leg continued and was ended successfully with the Duenna tracking the event throughout. The Duenna record does show when the real time weather ended and when it restarted.

    The evidence is entirely consistent with the pilot's report. The pilot will have lost a few minutes' time when his FSX was frozen. But the implied invalid leg is entirely explained by the events.

    Ruling. The pilot has the option of re-flying the leg or accepting the slightly less optimal leg as it stands. (The pilot has indicated that he will accept the finished leg.) The pilot should not worry about it.

    6. Pilot falcon409 has shifted aircraft from the Flying Stations Mew Gull to the Spartan Executive. This is fine. He should inform the staff as to which Spartan Executive he has chosen. (The Milton Shupe FS9 version ported to FSX or the FSNW (authorized) translation of the Shupe Spartan into native-FSX format? Note that the two aircraft have slightly different Handicap Allowances.

    Ruling. The pilot may switch aircraft. The only consequence is that the entry is not eligible to win a prize. The pilot understands this.

    Miss Nellie firmly pushed the report across the desktop toward my seat. I lifted it and slowly returned to cable the decisions to the racing community. This is going to be a learning experience, I optimistically thought.
    -Mike

  23. #23
    The pilot should make an effort to understand why the "view shift" button produced a refueling with this particular aircraft. He should effect a remedy.
    I can confirm that the pilot now understands (sort of) the reason for the button anomaly. He inadvertently assigned said button whilst in the middle of a brain fart! A remedy has been effected and no more such incidences will occur.

    Thank you for your forbearance.

  24. #24
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    Lucky to have caught Miss Nellie on her way out to tea. Showed her a couple of telegrams. She took a quick look and gave her blessing. "Tell the young men to keep up the excellent flying."

    She turned, paused for a moment, and looked back. "Congratulate the lad flying the Lancair for fixing his technical problems."

    1. JimmyRFR. The crash on landing is normal and the standard "repairs" penalty is in effect. The flight above the soft ceiling is fine. Miss Nellie sends a personal note hoping that you enjoyed your scenic tour of the Alps. You should depart for Athens at your own convenience.

    2. SkippyBing. Your incident in the storms over Turkey is understandable. The evidence indicates that you were cruising well below the soft ceiling when the storm temporarily pushed you over the limit. You immediately returned to the lower cruise altitude. All is good.

    (Note that the ruling would have been decidedly different had you cruised for a half-hour while over the ceiling. You did make a timely adjustment to the excursion over the limit.)

    Good flying, gentlemen.
    -Mike

  25. #25

    Clarification requested

    During my first leg between Essendon and Charleville, my FSX installation froze up and would not recover. I'm not sure if I should score this as a "bail out" or not. Could you please check with the rules committee (or Miss Nellie, but only if she's in a good mood) and let me know. I've read the rules regarding bail out's, but the rules made no specific mention about the program not responding. Thank you.
    Patrick
    Expect banging, belching and an occasional manly fart as you roar down the runway at full power. (I have found that the engine can make similar noises)

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