Building a new air.file // desperately help needed
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Thread: Building a new air.file // desperately help needed

  1. #1
    Members + Andreas Becker's Avatar
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    Icon28 Building a new air.file // desperately help needed

    Hello Guys, friends and aircraft designers..I am trying/planning to build the model of the Bachem BA-349 Natter for FSX and FS9. My real big problem is, since a real "vertical thrust (take off)" is not modelled for FS, I do not find any possibilities to change, manipulate or transform this sadly existing obviousness.As the Natter was a rocket-like VTOL point-defence rocket powered interceptor it needs (also as a model) to start vertical, like a rocket. Friends, the Gmax-model in the CFS 3 Add-On is a nice piece of handy aircraft but it's parts/ aircraft dynamics didn't help me any further. Just in case, someone still remembers that machine.....So, to reach this point of take off, I have tried already a lot of different 'mixtures' of Air.files mainly or barely disclosed as real VTOLs (mainly choppers) directly combine with Aircraft.cfgs, manipulated / re-written for this type of aircraft as well. But all efforts were useless by now.I already used the AircraftContainerManager (once optained whilst I was buying FS 2004 ages ago)This tool is able to change,improve or manipulate the aircraft.cfg . But everything which came out of this cfg-factory still needs a horizontal take off, unfortunately!!
    The last option I see and I am now asking for is the tool
    AirWrench. It should be able to create abosolutely real new Air. files and that's what I desperately need...So my question is....does somebody still use or have this old software.Could this/these person lend me a hand in building an Air.file for real or at least almost 'vertical take off'??
    I would appreciate every
    little help, or hint, to those who wants to help me out with this software.Cheers and thanks in advance!!

    AndreasBecker


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  2. #2

    AirWrench

    This old software was last updated back on 10th February 2014... Mudpond Software site.

    Perhaps vertical takeoff should be thought about in terms of how the Natter (I'd prefer Nutter having read a bit about that suicide sled) took off: mounted vertically on an upright pylon. The model's Static Pitch is set to 90 degrees and Static CG Height set suitably. I suggest three contact points which would let the model sit vertically on its tail. Wheel or skid contact points are also needed to land the thing on.

    I don't think FS implements rocket motors properly, so you're looking at a jet engine with rather more static thrust than the aircraft weighs. Beyond that I have no idea.

    Did you know the only manned, powered test flight ended in less than a minute when the Natter - with the pilot probably already dead - crashed back to earth?
    Last edited by hairyspin; February 28th, 2014 at 13:52. Reason: further thoughts
    Tom
    __________________________________________________ ___________________________________________
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  3. #3
    Members + Andreas Becker's Avatar
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    manned rocket in plywood, quite a nonsense

    Hello Hairyspin,
    thks a lot for the advices. I'll try it out. But in real there needed to be no wheels or skids. The crazy suicide sled was planned to come down by parachutes............how to manage that in Flightsim is an other question.
    By the way, I've constructed the flying bomb already vertically, meaning against all regulations. It's thus already standing upright.
    Probably, as you wrote, I should rebuild it horizontally. Then create a suitable and working pylon to fit the rocket on that boom, set the static pitch to 90 degrees and lift the whole thing upright. Have to try it out...it wouldn't be a good view if the pylons takes of as well.
    (Btw, as it's already vertically built, not rudders or elevators do their work and the crazy thing flies vertically with it's fuselage pointing upward). Crazy view.
    I have already used a jet engine with a bit of more thrust.
    Yeah, I know the story with the deadly manned flight. They've suggested that the pilot was unable to do the right thinks in an appropriate way due to the 2.5gs. Or he's just got a hit by the cockpit hood on his head..... Anyhow, it must have been like buffalo-riding on a tomahawk missile.

    Thanks for your reply,

    cheers

    Andy

  4. #4
    Your real problem will be the duplicity between sims. FSX can be set up to do VTOL much better than FS9 but they would not be able to use the same .air file to achieve that result. FS9 simply does not have the ability to do VTOL without an addon gauge.

    You might be better off looking at at Rob Barendregt VTOl gauges for FS9 and FSX and see how you might be able to incorporate them into your release.


    FS2004 (ACOF) - FS2004 Panels FS2004 Gauge--VTOL/Hover
    [ Download | View ]
    Name: rcbhca20.zip
    Size: 218,064 Date: 10-05-2007 Downloads: 1,377


    FS2004 Gauge--VTOL/Hover for Alphasim's FS9 V22-Osprey v1.2. This freeware gauge adds new VTOL and hover features to Alphasim's V22 Osprey. Besides true vertical takeoff and landing, it allows you to fly forward, backward, sideways and turn, while in a hover. This solution is based on overriding the normal FS flight dynamics while in a hover; in short, it's a VTOL andhover FDE coded in a gauge. Special thanks to 1. Doug Dawson, who created a gauge that provides for overriding FSX variables from an XML gauge; 2. Nick Needham, for his rotorwash effects. Requires FSUIPC3 (registered or unregistered, not included). By Rob Barendregt.
    FSX - FSX Panels FSX Gauge--VTOL/Hover
    [ Download | View ]
    Name: rcbvca40.zip
    Size: 62,926 Date: 09-24-2012 Downloads: 689


    FSX Gauge--VTOL/Hover v4.0 for Alphasim/Virtavia V22 Osprey. This freeware package adds new V(S)TOL and hover features to the V-22 Osprey. Besides true vertical takeoff and landing, it allows you to fly forward, backward, sideways and turn, while in a hover. This solution is based on overriding the normal FS flight dynamics when the nacelles are rotated out of the normal flight position; in short, it's a V(S)TOL and hover FDE coded in a gauge. For users of previous versions of this add-on, this is a major update. The readme includes extensive installation and flying instructions. Requires prior installation of Peter Dowson's FSUIPC (registered or un-registered). For FSX-SP2 or FSX-Acceleration only. By Rob Barendregt.
    You would still need a somewhat realistic (as best as you can get) .air file for normal flight. That you could do rather easily with AirWrench.

  5. #5
    Members + Andreas Becker's Avatar
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    Still not flyable

    Quote Originally Posted by Dangerousdave26 View Post
    Your real problem will be the duplicity between sims. FSX can be set up to do VTOL much better than FS9 but they would not be able to use the same .air file to achieve that result. FS9 simply does not have the ability to do VTOL without an addon gauge.

    You might be better off looking at at Rob Barendregt VTOl gauges for FS9 and FSX and see how you might be able to incorporate them into your release.






    You would still need a somewhat realistic (as best as you can get) .air file for normal flight. That you could do rather easily with AirWrench.

    Hello Dave, Thanks for your friendly hints!!
    I've tried both possibilities. But no positive results yet. The BA-349 still isn't able to fly from it's modeled vertical position. It's a pity, the model would be an enrichment between the models..........well, probably directly contact to Bob Barendregt.
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  6. #6
    So you already tried it as a helo.

    I wonder if you could put an animation in place of the landing gear that would allow the model to visually rotate to the level flight position. then you could model the VC to follow this rotation. I'm only guessing and it might be more trouble then its worth. I think that would be the best option is to use animation. as far as a chute you could set the flaps setting to a high lift so that you could glide in. Have the chute deploy with the spoiler or speed breaks.

    I'm not sure what the VTOL gauge does. I've never used it. But if it can help get you the results your after.

    If you can get this figured out then you can use it to model other early VTOL ACs. Keep thinking outside of the box and you'll get it. I hope some of this helps.

    Good Luck,
    John
    "Courage is the discovery that you may not win, and trying when you know you can lose."-Tom Krause

    My works Here: http://www.thefreeflightsite.com/JFortin.htm

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