C-97 wip

[HvyEng]

Howdy All,

To answer a few questions:

For the C-97, as per the 1-1, the combined thrust of both J-47’s equaled one of the R-4360’s. At 100% you essentially had a 5 engine C-97G. They were normally used only for takeoff and fast AR receivers, but were available for use anytime (heavyweight cruise, engine out landing, etc). Although they could be fed from the wings (AvGas) or deck (JP-4) tanks, JP-4 or Jet-B was the specified fuel grade. They had a throttle for each engine (on the right side of the center console), and were normally operated at 75% or 100%, but there was no TO prohibition against operating them at any throttle setting as necessary.

There are two different ways of addressing multiple engine types in FSX, an adjustment in thrust or an adjustment in drag. By varying any of the associated thrust or drag elements, the overall effect of having multiple thrust producing types can be simulated easily, it is the asymmetrical aspect with throttle tie in that requires work. But after all, FSX is simply crunching numbers to render a visual effect, the list of items in the .cfg and .air are simply the user provided inputs, but not necessarily the only ones…

In this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCc4LkvvFYo

The scream you hear in the background is a Solar T-41 “Mars” APU. It was located in the forward lower lobe on the right side. Double that and you’re pretty close to the sound of a pair of J47s on the wingtip.

Or, here is the real deal with a J-47: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXEQUYCD5DI

--Dan

[TuFun]

"The scream you hear in the background is a Solar T-41 “Mars” APU." I was wondering what that noise was, many thanks for that info.

[TuFun]

A closer look at the startup, engine run, shut down, and smoke effects on a single R-4360.

[TheGrunt]

For the C-97, as per the 1-1, the combined thrust of both J-47’s equaled one of the R-4360’s. At 100% you essentially had a 5 engine C-97G. They were normally used only for takeoff and fast AR receivers, but were available for use anytime (heavyweight cruise, engine out landing, etc). Although they could be fed from the wings (AvGas) or deck (JP-4) tanks, JP-4 or Jet-B was the specified fuel grade. They had a throttle for each engine (on the right side of the center console), and were normally operated at 75% or 100%, but there was no TO prohibition against operating them at any throttle setting as necessary.

There are two different ways of addressing multiple engine types in FSX, an adjustment in thrust or an adjustment in drag. By varying any of the associated thrust or drag elements, the overall effect of having multiple thrust producing types can be simulated easily, it is the asymmetrical aspect with throttle tie in that requires work. But after all, FSX is simply crunching numbers to render a visual effect, the list of items in the .cfg and .air are simply the user provided inputs, but not necessarily the only ones…

True, thrust can be of course modeled changing other parameters. I think the biggest challenge here is that FSX supports maximum of four engines. This means that you can model only situation where turbojets are "always on" at the simplest case and there is no possibility to shut them down. You can perhaps model the use of jet engines by adding the thrust "automatically" after certain point of MP by giving extra horse power to engines and thus simulating the jet engines coming to play (and this could be addressed with sound effects also), but switching the extra "fifth" engine on or off manually isn't that easy to achieve, if not possible. All in all, it is a challenge, especially when you are dealing with more than four engines.

[TheGrunt]

Double......

[Bjoern]

Jet engine startup can be simulated with the engine gauges bound to a timer gauge and using Doug Dawson's XML sounds to play an appropriate sound sample in the process.
Prop power has to be trimmed to provide full spec power at 90% throttle. Throttle lever movement would have to be split. 0-90% for the piston levers and 90-WEP for the jet engine levers. There needs to be an internal lock that blocks and lever movement past 90% when the jet engines are not running. The lock is disengaged when the jets are at idle and you'll get your boost.

The most difficult thing about this is getting the FDE right. You need to ensure that your curves deliver the right numbers from 0 to 90% and then get something reasonalble from 90 to shortly before WEP and spec combined power at WEP.

[TuFun]

[racartron]

"oh my goodness!"

[TuFun]

Now it sounds like those massive props are churning some air!

Engine #1 and #4 were stubborn on startup.

[manfredc3]

Holy mother of sounds. Give those 4 mouths some oil to soften their throat lines, lol.

This monster dos not just look amazing, it sounds awesome!!

[manfredc3]

Holy mother of sounds. Give those 4 mouths some oil to soften their throat lines, lol.

This monster dos not just look amazing, it sounds awesome!!

[TuFun]

Testing sound panning effects. Prop wash needs tweaking further, goes beyond fuselage. As it pans to the right side of the fuselage you'll notice the fuselage acts like a barrier, softening the sounds. Then as it comes across the front of the fuselage the prop sounds start to pick up.

[gray eagle]

Very nice!!! She sounds great. That was a good demo illustrating the sound during the pan. I like the sound of the props at idle with that prop slap effect.
This is is off the chain!!!

[stansdds]

One of the advantages of FSX over FS9 is the implementation of sound cones. Nicely done!

[ejoiner]

Testing sound panning effects. Prop wash needs tweaking further, goes beyond fuselage. As it pans to the right side of the fuselage you'll notice the fuselage acts like a barrier, softening the sounds. Then as it comes across the front of the fuselage the prop sounds start to pick up.

Manfred, this is awesome as usual with your work... now spoil me more and tell me theres a flyable boom operators compartment in this thing... :-)

[mjahn]

You are giving me some ideas here... we could have a camera showing the boom op's POV, we can work his light array I suppose, and maybe there is a way to swing the boom itself...

[mjahn]

Here she is with the jets kicking in for takeoff...

[ejoiner]

You are giving me some ideas here... we could have a camera showing the boom op's POV, we can work his light array I suppose, and maybe there is a way to swing the boom itself...

Something like this would work. In this photoshop image, I took an ACTUAL photo of a KC-10 tanker and cropped out everything in the window then overlaid it on top of the FS9 shot. Would be very easy to make this into some some sort of 2D cockpit option with a few buttons on it for lights etc.

[Bjoern]

Something like this would work. In this photoshop image, I took an ACTUAL photo of a KC-10 tanker and cropped out everything in the window then overlaid it on top of the FS9 shot. Would be very easy to make this into some some sort of 2D cockpit option with a few buttons on it for lights etc.

If Manfred models the station as part of the VC, you can even have clickable switches and some cheesy pin-up and Buddy Holly-posters in there.

[gray eagle]

Something like this would work. In this photoshop image, I took an ACTUAL photo of a KC-10 tanker and cropped out everything in the window then overlaid it on top of the FS9 shot. Would be very easy to make this into some some sort of 2D cockpit option with a few buttons on it for lights etc.

Don't want to sound daft, but how could FSX handle two aircraft in an inflight fueling scenario when you can only fly one plane at a time.
(unless a static view that shows a plane that is gassing up at the boom). BTW that a nice photo.

[ejoiner]

Don't want to sound deft, but how could FSX handle two aircraft in an inflight fueling scenario when you can only fly one plane at a time.
(unless a static view that shows a plane that is gassing up at the boom). BTW that a nice photo.

Well, I am thinking online flying would be the best way. and thanks on the image. Part of my online FS9/Trainsim Photo gallery. http://www.projectbluebelle.com/

I havent updated it with FSX content yet. Been busy with work and too lazy at home.

[TuFun]

Using a floating camera took a shot from the KC-97 boom operators position and refueling a B-47.

[ejoiner]

Using a floating camera took a shot from the KC-97 boom operators position and refueling a B-47.

THAT sir... is awesome. cool to keep that camera then!!

Eric

[TuFun]

Inside a KC-97L tour by a boomer veteran...

[usafvet]

Ohhhh, I see many ANG units, along with SAC units, on the C-97 side, a few antennas for E/RC-97's used in Europe and the Pacific. Very nice, beautiful aircraft, and wonderful sound package.