RTWR 2014 Early News and Discussion - Page 2
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Thread: RTWR 2014 Early News and Discussion

  1. #26
    Another angle: The planning and flight schedule of the whole race.
    How did this work before? Did pilots just jump in to take the baton when it was available? Did they pick a new destination on their own?
    Or was this coordinated somehow?

    If interested pilots provide their free hours then they can all be slotted in when it suits them.
    If you know beforehand when you have to fly then you can plan your real life around it.
    This also helps keep people with little time on board. If pilot X only has a few, very specific hours then these can be reserved for him so that he will not lose his opportunity because pilot Y, who has seas of time, takes the baton during these hours.
    We may also help inexperienced, daylight-only pilots by giving them daylight legs.

    If the route is planned centrally then pilots can be given a simple task: Fly from A to B, no need to worry about which airport to pick as B.

    Experienced can help others planning their flight, decide how much fuel to carry, at which altitude to fly.

  2. #27
    I can only speak for AVSIM, but I would assume the other teams are similar.

    The exact way planning works is dependant on the year's rules, for a few years we didn't know all the requirements at the start, and those years we would have to plan more on the fly. But normally, when all the requirements are known beforehand, we've planned most, if not all, of the route before the start of the race. Anyone in the team who wants to help may join in, usually maybe a third to half of the team helps out.

    During the race, there is usally some replanning to improve local parts of the route, or changes in case of unexpected events. Individual pilots won't usually have to do this themselves, there are at a minimum 3-4 veterans online, usually more. I don't know if that is the case in the other teams, at some points last year it seemed at least Sim-Outhouse was spread quite thin.

    There isn't really a set flight schedule from the start, since it's usually pretty hard to predict when we will be somewhere it it's more than maybe 8-10 hours away. We usually have about 2-3 legs forward planned as far as who flies, but if someone comes on and only has a few hours they can usually hop in on one of the next flights.
    Klas
    Team AVSIM

  3. #28
    Klas hit the nail on the head there. I believe its against the rules to assign the entire route ahead of time, so we keep it to only a few legs in advance and the whole process is very fluid and subject to change. If someone comes online that hasn't flown in a while and wants the leg, its given to them. I don't think we've ever had an argument over who flies what where. As for the route, well usually very well planned but obviously things can happen (unexpected fuel shortage ) so you never know.

  4. #29
    I am curious how many members each team has. Team AVSIM has 15 confirmed racers, with 1 maybe and 2 possible new racers for a total of 18 possible racers, which if memory serves me is a little on the high side for us.

    How many does Sim-Outhouse/Flightsim have?

  5. #30
    Hey All,

    Well I'll comment a bit...

    About:

    1) the general nature of this race. This is not a race. It is a minimum time event which can be a race but not necessarily. Have you ever seen a bonus for first to finish? How often has the first across the finish line lost as the next team had more bonuses? Something to think about as the committee sets up the not a "race" "race". For this reason even if for no other I see no problem "splitting" it into more than one weekend. That said I have a 3-day weekend (Sat-Mon) that week and it is not in conflict with the "500" so I'm there if they'll have me.

    2) more pilots. I completely agree with the idea that the best way to try to get more pilots is to allow more aircraft. There are at best a half dozen truly fast piston aircraft and quite frankly most of those are - in my opinion - either costly or harder than heck to fly - unless you have a full "cockpit" (stick, pedals, throttles) at home. I think aircraft that "fly well" with a full cockpit can be heck with just a joystick. For me I fly the Hornet not just because it is fast but because it is so easy to fly and land - I don't even need to line up with a runway - just land it even crossways to a runway - and the props won't let you overspeed in a dive to your destination - the hornet is incredibly well behaved. Now it is free - I think. But I digress - I have never understood why a team can't "submit" the aircraft they are going to fly - from a 172 to the fastest P51 and simply have them "equalized" via handicapping - or even a "handicapped white list" presented. For me personally I love flying civvie turboprops (PC12, PC6, 1900c, kodiak, cheyenne 400ls...) but none of them would ever be vaguely competitive... however. That way pilots who fly "low and slow" can participate which I think is perhaps all important.

    3) special events. I think a big plus - my favorite was the hamburger runs a few years ago. If the race is split I think not a prob.

    4) strategy and planning. I have always thought that planning is a fundamental and important part of flying. I think the strategy aspect is really important and should not be lost from this minimum time event. As an example I really like JT's idea of north and south being 90 (or choose a number) deg apart instead of specific latitude requirements - great idea. That said I totally disagree with those who think every leg should be preplanned. I think tactically the pilot responsible for the next leg decides where he/she is going. I think teams should only "preplan" the "grand strategy" meaning turning points to the next turning point. Certainly you can have some tactical discussion along the way (remember SOH trying to land a plane on an island in the middle of the Atlantic a few years ago?) but it should be ultimately up to the pilot in the plane flying the leg. You can't really enforce this but I do wish there was a way. I personally don't like the you go here then you go here approach.

    5) other. Hmmm what to say. multiplayer - I fully understand pilots not comfortable with trying to land in front of others. It adds pressure - pressure which I think is counterproductive. Teamspeak is a plus - discussion is always good but you know there is a routine for flying a leg and when you get right down to it - it ain't needed - who used teamspeak in 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008... I think teams should be clear about the team expectations around teamspeak and multiplayer - and accommodate what a pilot is comfortable with. If somebody wants to fly a 172 on a leg offline - what is wrong with that? More jet legs - I'm fine with that especially if it brings in more pilots.

    Ultimately you - the committee - need to decide what this "not a race" race is all about - broad participation in a "virtual event" or a purest Reno style race. Make up your mind and give people time to consider it - year by year.

    Just my thoughts since being around this event since the start.

    None of what I said was mean't to offend and I hope it doesn't/didn't.

    -Ed-
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    and they all rode horses-that is all but one.
    When he went to the rescue he flew a Cessna plane.
    His ranch was called the "Flying Crown" and "Sky King" was his name. -Jim Dilly-

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  6. #31
    Charter Member 2022 srgalahad's Avatar
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    We are not the only ones having to make decisions and spousal appeasement on the weekend of the 15th. Here's a quote from someone planning to attend a large aviation gathering:

    "Fly out the morning of the 15th at 0-dark-30 and hope to make it on time or fly out Friday night — Valentine’s Day — and risk the wrath of a significant other. The fact that I’m even thinking of flying out Friday night tells you how dangerously I live, or how much of a geek I am."


    http://www.airlinereporter.com/2014/...details-event/

    So, I guess it's a matter of dedication...

    "To some the sky is the limit. To others it is home" anon.
    “Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new.” -Albert Einstein


  7. #32
    Well I am going to chime in here with a few things I have said privately to the committee before and thoughts specifically for this year.

    For this and any year after I would hate to see the event run multiple weekends. It should be a start to finish race and when we can no longer pull that off be done with the Around the World Race and we can all live with the fond memories. Lets not be like that worn out athlete that does not know when to retire. At some point in time this will end like all things lets not butcher it as long as it does run.

    Now for my previous thoughts which still stand. This is a letter I sent to the committee last year with a few modifications for this year.

    Around the World Race 2013 thoughts and suggestions

    Mike, Rob, and Austin

    I am really sorry for chiming in here so late but since before Christmas I have been busy with real life.

    I have a few suggestions for this year’s race I would like you all to look at. Some of these ideas I discussed with Rob after Mike had asked to help out with the race this year.

    With the recent changes to the committee I think we have an excellent opportunity to press the reset button one on the race. Most of the members who fly now are used to the in depth rules and challenges that we have had for the last few year’s.

    It’s the start of the next era of the Around the World Race and my suggestion is to strip all of the extras from the race this year making the rules as simple as possible.

    There are a lot of benefits to doing this now. First is with the change in leadership it’s the right time to do it. Second it’s actually completely instep with past planning that always added more or different to enhance the race. This idea will certainly count as different. The last reason is with the new management system fewer rules and account should mean it will be easier on everyone involved.

    There are probably a few other reasons but for now those will work.

    In the nut shell

    1. Strip out all bonuses
    a. No kickoff event
    b. Team Flights are a requirement but yield no bonus, let them all be done as soon as a team can with no restrictions on time.
    c. No aircraft bonus
    d. No landing bonus
    2. No Penalties such as wingman transfers the delay in time between baton and wingman serves as sufficient penalty.
    3. Necessary penalties for cheating type infractions constitutes a loss of leg, no additional time.
    4. No unnecessary accounting because there is no bonus bank.
    5. No special challenges make the race purely about racing around the world in defaults and aircraft from the approved list.
    6. Increase the maximum leg distance to 800nm
    7. Remove the 2hr x 3 penalty and replace it with a 3hr drop dead leg time. Any leg going over 3 hrs is lost time.
    8. Skip the continental briefing sheets and anything that adds complexity to the race.
    9. Make this year’s race a shot gun start. Rob and I have discussed this before. Post all the routing rules less the starting and ending point. The starting and ending ICAO should be included in the Official Race has started post. If anyone objects just tell them it was my idea. LOL
    10. I know there has been some thought to close the South Pole route for the race but I would like to voice my opinion on why it should not be closed.
    a. Pulling off the Southern route is just as likely to go horribly wrong as it is to be an advantage.
    b. The starting and ending point is just as effective in closing the southern route but it still leaves the path there forcing each team to look at is it do able for this race.
    c. The Southern Route becomes a mystery where each team will wonder if the other will be taking the path. This means each team should be planning and testing the route. (Except for us I am not doing it again. LOL)
    11. I think I forgot something I wanted to say so if I did it will be number 12.

    Again I know this is late in coming but it should not make planning harder but easier.

    Dave
    Thanks for reading my two cents

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  8. #33
    Great ideas Dave; I agree :-)
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  9. #34
    SOH-CM-2024 Craig Taylor's Avatar
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    +1 on the shotgun start. Teams all start on their own servers anyway, so I don't think it would detract from anything, and might add an air of mystery.
    Craig "CB" Taylor
    Team AVSIM RTWR

  10. #35
    I love the shotgun start idea actually, would make things exciting thats for sure

    But that also throws out the entire plan right from the get go, no preplanned route, have to "wing" it. hehehe

  11. #36
    Hey All,

    Lots of good feedback here. It will be very interesting to see what the committee does - that is for sure. It is up to them to think through the consequences of their decision(s) in terms of pilot interest/recruitment, race standing(s) and equability among teams given weather changes inherent in a shotgun start. I wish them well in their deliberations - a pure race in nothing but the fastest aircraft would certainly be different than anything in the past.

    -Ed-
    My heroes have always been cowboys and they all carried guns-
    and they all rode horses-that is all but one.
    When he went to the rescue he flew a Cessna plane.
    His ranch was called the "Flying Crown" and "Sky King" was his name. -Jim Dilly-

    The rich man writes the book of laws that the poor man must defend, but the highest laws are written on the hearts of honest men. - Ricky Skaggs-

  12. #37
    Charter Member 2022 srgalahad's Avatar
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    a pure race in nothing but the fastest aircraft would certainly be different than anything in the past.
    Well, since there is now a freeware FSX version of the SR-71 it certainly could be considered...

    From the readme of the latest update:
    "Warning: This is a highly technical FDE which requires detailed knowledge of SR-71 specifications, limitations, standard procedures, and non-standard FS gauge operation.
    Please read the HTML Manual for complete information.
    The provided panel is tightly integrated into the flight model. Other panels than the one provided are not supported and the model will not fly properly."

    "To some the sky is the limit. To others it is home" anon.
    “Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new.” -Albert Einstein


  13. #38
    Just a thought or two about the move to include the P3D Platform. I no longer have FS9 on my computer, I do have P3D ver2 and FSX and given the way P3D is heading, especially with Ver2 and the upcoming patch, FSX may not be on my system much longer either. Personally, I would like to see it included, but due to a lack of RWWeather I understand why it can't at this time. I get the sense, from reading the Prepar3D Forums, that a weather engine isn't anything they're working on presently. . .leaving it instead to the many standalone weather engines available. I assume then that it would take an update to the Duenna to make this happen and I don't even know if that's possible.

    Also, and I won't belabor this point, but the debate over the EULA for P3D has a lot of folks "on the fence" so to speak as to whether it's a platform they want to pursue in it's current form (non-entertainment based). Just a thought.

  14. #39
    I dont see why P3D can't be used, if we all agree to use a set weather engine, we should be able to make it work.

    As for the duenna, we would need the programmer to modify it to recognize P3D, but I believe P3D works with FSUIPC so that shouldn't be overly difficult. If John Mueller doesn't wish to make any modifications to it, I'm sure I can help, depending on the exact language it was written in.

  15. #40
    According to the "full installation in a zip file" download link, it's coded in Visual Basic 6 (which I do have)--since that link says you need the VB6 runtime package.

    Technically, I could do something with it, myself since I do have VB6, but I don't have P3D....

    I agree, though... One way forward is to include support for P3D and X-Plane 10 if there's a real-world weather engine available for X-Plane 10....

  16. #41
    Some thoughts on Ed's and Dave's comments. In general, I agree that simplifying the rules is a good thing, and would significantly lower the threshold for new racers to enter the race.

    Bonuses/Penalties:

    I agree that it is a good idea to remove bonuses. Since all teams almost always ends up with the maximum bonus amount they don't really serve a purpose, other than to perhaps hurt teams with fewer members for the team flight events. Team flights should stay though, but, as Dave said, be required. I don't know if there should be a requirement that at least X pilots participate, to force it to be a team flight?

    I also don't know what should be done about penalties for wingman transfers, I think they need to stay. What is otherwise stopping the lead pilot from aborting the leg if the wingman arrives first? But, if we have no bonus bank, should we be forced to wait out penalties, or should they be added to a "penalty bank"? With a penalty bank we would still have extra record keeping, but having to wait extends the total race time. Maybe waiting would be tolerable if the penalty was decreased to five or ten minutes, while still discouraging using a wingman transfer to gain time?

    Routing / planning / strategy:

    I don't agree that the pilot for each leg should be solely responsible for figuring out and deciding where to go. This is a team event, and what's important is to do well as a team. To get the best route it's most often necessary to plan several legs in advance from the current location, so the route can't be decided by the current pilot alone, it must be done in conjunction with the rest of the team. Of course, the pilot flying the leg gets a large say in where it should go, especially if the pilot e.g. would be uncomfortable with the planned destination, it would be better to take a slightly longer route through a safer airport, if it's possible.

    For me, planning is creating the "grand strategy", optimizing it for the global route. As the race is now, this means creating mostly complete routes beforehand to evaluate. But most of the legs can, and often will, be altered during the race.

    I like Dave's idea of a shotgun start, as it adds some variability and tactics to the start, i.e. do we head off in a general direction or wait a few extra minutes before we decide where to go?

    Aircraft:

    I agree that making more aircraft competitive would be good. But a handicap system would make it even more complex, as well as add to the race time. From what we understand from the committee, that has been determined to not be a good thing. Personally though, I wouldn't mind adding extra time. But, as I spoke against bonuses earlier, perhaps requiring a certain number of legs/distance be flown in slower aircraft, like the cabin class we had a few year ago.

    Anyway, I think that some regulations are required, as I wouldn't like to see a race where only the P-51H is a competitive aircraft...


    Wow, that post became longer than anticipated, I should probably stop now. BTW, I'm all for allowing P3D.
    Klas
    Team AVSIM

  17. #42
    Hi all! I'm excited for this years race. I appreciate the committee seeking input on these important considerations. There have been excellent comments thus far. Here are mine:

    - With the Monday holiday (at least for many in the US), my preference is to keep the race on one long weekend, but 2 weekends would be OK if needed. Anything longer than ~80 contiguous hours will result in significant pilot drop-off for our team. This is certainly doable with routing, leg distance, aircraft possibilities, and/or corridors.

    - A Friday evening or afternoon start would also be very appealing, except that it falls on Valentine's day this year.

    - I would be opposed to any race structure for an around the world race that doesn't actually circumnavigate the globe (e.g. same start/end location). Something very basic such as one 'best' route or even specific airport requirements (some very difficult, some VERY long legs, some on water, some notable airports, etc.) would be fun as it would put all teams flying the same route to the finish line.

    - Faster and/or jet aircraft will almost certainly be necessary for some (please not all) legs, but this does open up potential for abuse and complexity... as we've witnessed in the past. Unfortunately, I think only a white list of aircraft will likely keep things equitable.

    - Perhaps allow consecutive baton flights for times where pilots are very short?

    - I agree with most of Dave's recommendations for simplifying the rules, record keeping, bonuses, etc. Recent years have required complex spreadsheets to keep track of it all - with the possibility for a clerical error affecting the race outcome. I don't like the S. Pole primarily because it is FSX only, but would support it being allowed if it were found to not provide a huge advantage.

    - The sooner we can get race details and rules, the better! With that said, a shotgun start sounds interesting.

  18. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by apollosmith View Post
    - Perhaps allow consecutive baton flights for times where pilots are very short?
    This is interesting. Maybe allowing a "LPA" or Low Pilot Availability option would be helpful, but limited in some way to not be abused.

  19. #44

    My thoughts and questions

    Hello,

    I would like to say first that I hope to participate in more group 'real-like' events this year; not just this one; and my one worry is that in these events, I want to see some trees and auto-generated 'schtuff' at least to some extent; if I am told to remove every tree to land at an air field at night just to 'win'; that kind of bothers me; and the fact that everyone should be on that same level of realism is something else that really bothers me in this event.

    I always liked RTW when I first flew in it; then even after all the long hours it would always be the same few people flying; I am looking at this from a different point of view as this will be my last hope for being a part of what I consider an important community.

    That view is one of enjoying the hobby and RTW not as a 'race' against time (!) as Ed even suggested; of course time is important, and the planes we fly are also important; and the level of flight simming ability to real-world flying is important; that is what makes the challenge; it is not about someone being better than someone else; those people up front sort of speak; well I think they are putting needless stress on themselves here; but I am not up front as it were and I probly never will be; it is not as important as 'flying a sim as good as it gets' no matter in what circumstance.

    Also I think the Wingmen really need alot more appreciation and respect; they should be considered on par with the lead flyer and just as important; afterall; those wingman are also lead fliers !

    For me when I land and even take off I need some amount of thinking in peace and quiet; and now with the overspeed experience in bad weather with that stupid auto pilot messin with my attitude (in more ways than one haha!!), it is important to work those transitions in a state of utter bliss !

    Nuthin like landing only to see a red duenna; then yer hopes of ever flying again in a RTW race somewhat dwindle ! Sometimes we all have to learn from mistakes and as they say:"Fly what you can fly" !

    Go up in all kinds of weather; push the limits then take aff about 10% or so to give you a chance to recover from a bad auto-pilot; I remember one jet leg I flew; I think it was wing; I flew for almost 2 hours; no vis; no auto pilot; no fun.

    So my questions; I read where we have to fly 700nm legs? I thought they were 500nm or is it as long as you can fly for under 2 hours to not get into that negative bonus hit?

    On the realism front and Duenna I have some major concerns.

    Are pilots allowed to switch views to an outside view while flying? If this is the case, at least with FS9, I saw bad weather in the cockpit and blue skies in the outside view; just saying.

    Can we use avionics packages in our planes that are 'STOCK' for other planes in FSX/FS9; IE I like the radio package in the Beach Baron and use it exclusively for my other planes; even the Piper Cub; there are some instances where according to the race rules that this isnt allowed; other places where it isnt mentioned.

    Another thought on this line is to use a third party avionics or even nav system; one that has been tried tested and true in the race before; many people use programs like FSCommander etc; these cause lagg (or can); do pilots really need to use this stuff? If they are using it when it wasnt used in World War II then I see no problem using any stock avioncs packages that come with the simulator either; and that doesnt even cause lagg.

    There are cases where the stock GPS is not to be used; and shouldnt be ! (I could be wrong on this one) We should have such a situation !

    And last but not least...trees and auto-gen scenery; we all use FSX we all know what the settings are; but are they that way and who is to say someone isnt cheating and lowering everything to NIL? Duenna doesnt check this crash detection or not.

    Personally; I need trees in my life; they are part of this planet we live on; does frame rate really affect time that much? If I fly offline will I get to my destination any quicker? What about those plane landing lights on the end of non-lit runways!? That is being a little specific...I am just looking for a way to see life down below when I fly in my flightsim...if we know a route...is it possible to fly a landing area in the daytime in good conditions during the race to 'area familiarize' before we land there at night in a blinding rainstorm ? Well, I am up in the air on this one; in real life it could be a toss up; we could have had time to practice it; but in reality we dont know our route; we will have never gotten to any of our destinations before hand to 'practice'; I am against this policy; it is just this sort of thing that makes the challenge what it is.

    As far as when the race takes place I dont have alot of clout here I am up in the air either way (LOL); I like the idea of splitting it up over 2 weekends personally; it would allow for a more involved 'race' not to be som much of a race as a gettogether; isnt that what flightsimming is really all about?

    These are the current rules: (?)

    http://www.fsrtwrace.com/pdf/RTWR%20...Rules_2013.pdf

    I will be Live streaming my practice flights ! They will probly have frame rate loss cause of my slow upload speed but hey - I caught the Live stream bug !

    http://www.twitch.tv/cdr_hawkeyez

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    Last edited by Viper007; January 19th, 2014 at 12:04. Reason: typos
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  20. #45

    Please Move This Thread !

    Hello,

    This was supposed to have gone to:

    http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforum...and-Discussion

    as a reply; I dont know how this got started here UGH !!

    EDIT(This post can be deleted thanks !)

    Viper
    Last edited by Viper007; January 21st, 2014 at 18:30. Reason: This post can be deleted !
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  21. #46
    Senior Administrator PRB's Avatar
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    Hi Viper,

    I think the auto-gen issue was addressed in the last race at least, but not 100% sure about that. Meaning you have to have some “normal” amount of autogen scenery that allows your sim to run at reasonable frame rates. There is a lot of “honor system” here, as there is really no way to tell.

    I agree this event should be about fun. Most people who participate do understand that. In every team event, some individuals will assume a leadership role. That is not a bad thing, necessarily. The race has become more complicated over the years, and some amount of management is useful. And wingmen are appreciated here!

    The leg length has always had a 700 NM limit, give or take 50. Of course with the 2 Hr limitation, some slower planes cannot make 700 NM in two hours, so, yep, it's important to know your airplane before you take off.

    No way to keep people from going to spot view during the leg. You have to anyway to get cool screen pics of your adventure. Not sure what you mean about bad weather inside and blue skies outside. I've never seen that.

    Panels can be modified to add gauges, radios, ILS, and such. You can't use gauges like “auto land” gauges. What you can't do is alter the plane's performance, by going into the aircraft.cfg file and changing the stall speed, for example.

    It's always been considered “smart racing” to check your destination airport before you launch. There are things in he sim that real life pilots don't have to deal with, like airports that are sunk into a deep ditch in the sim, or otherwise dangerous. True, in a real race you wouldn't have the chance to do that, but you would use other resources to prepare. We can't simulate to 100% accuracy what an event like this would be if done in real life.

    We'll be practicing a bit more, so do jump in!
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  22. #47
    Hi gents.

    I will provide some feedback, though I haven't flown in the race in 2 or 3 years.

    I've flown 4 races total I believe, starting in 2007. I moved between the three teams and have flown with each. Members on all three were very helpful with practice, getting planes set up, tips and tricks, and all friendly, etc. What I noticed during the race though is why I switched teams and why I quit flying the race. It became a race where the normal active members of a website (team) would dictate who flew what leg and sometimes specific legs would be auto-reserved for particular team members, each year. One team had legs reserved 6-8 hours out one year and, as noted, for the small group of regulars.

    I used to get off work around 12AM and so was available to cover all those hours up through say 8AM the next morning. But one team had 3 or 4 team members in Europe that also flew at that time and I was locked out from flying and in fact on Team Speak I would offer to fly a leg or ask to fly and was politely ignored, night after night. Guess who I didn't fly with the year after.

    One year a younger kid, a teenager if I remember, joined the team just a few days before the race. He showed up to fly a few times and was summarily dismissed. I put forth that he should at least fly as wingman but it was obvious the team considered him unprepared and so was excluded. I said goodbye to that team. Why? Because the RULES say if you are on the team you can grab the baton and fly. It became apparent that the rules were more just 'suggestions' as was 'the spirit of the race', which if I remember correctly was to have fun.

    So while you all 'say' its all in fun, everyone gets to participate, etc, it doesn't really play out that way. And don't get me wrong, I fully understand that this is THE great get together for the members of each website and you are all friends and for the most part do not exclude anyone intentionally generally. I cannot fault anyone on any of the teams for wanting to fly with and have the comraderie of your regular team mates. Fully understandable and normal I'd say.

    But these things, even when unintentional, leave a bad taste and puts people off from participating again. I've talked with others who have put forth the same opinion. Notice I'm not naming teams. This isn't meant to be a bodyslam, just a nudge. This race is, in my opinion, the most fun you can have flight-simming.

    --

    Keep it an around the world race. It would be great to keep it a start to finish time race, but split between two weekends to deal with the realities of life isn't a bad compromise. The shotgun start is a great idea. Also, drop all bonuses, etc.

    And you might try creating a 'pilot pool'. Get pilots from the various teams to fill in slots for another team so each team has enough pilots. I understand this will be quite unpopular on first thought but wouldn't it be better to keep the race healthy rather than have 25 pilots on one team and 11 on another, pushing the race itself towards extinction. Figure out which team is coming up short on pilots and transfer over a few to fill in the roster. Next year those people will fly with their regular team again and a few others can transfer over. You will find it is a lot of fun flying against your regular team-mates for a race as well.

    So no offense intended here, as I said more of just a nudge. There really isn't anyone I've spoken with on any of the teams that I don't like or who isn't pleasant and generally helpful.

    If its meant to be fun then ease up on the Indy 500 mentality when it comes to participation, planning, etc. If everyone is invited then act in an inviting way, even when there is a wildcard leg coming up and your 'ace' pilot just HAS to be the one to fly because we can't have some kid we just met flying this leg. My god what if we were flying to a tiny island in the middle of the ocean and he crashed? Over and over? What would happen then? The answer is of course, you'd lose the race but as with every race you will still have had a great time and will do so the next year as well. Even if you lose again.


    This is much longer than I intended. And please, these are observations, not accusations. Honest feedback is all I'm offering, with malice towards none.


    Hicks

  23. #48
    Hey All,

    Hicks one of the best posts in this thread! I'll not elaborate. I've been a part of two teams (one my first year only) and seen the good, bad and ugly.

    -Ed-
    My heroes have always been cowboys and they all carried guns-
    and they all rode horses-that is all but one.
    When he went to the rescue he flew a Cessna plane.
    His ranch was called the "Flying Crown" and "Sky King" was his name. -Jim Dilly-

    The rich man writes the book of laws that the poor man must defend, but the highest laws are written on the hearts of honest men. - Ricky Skaggs-

  24. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEd View Post
    Hey All,

    Hicks one of the best posts in this thread! I'll not elaborate. I've been a part of two teams (one my first year only) and seen the good, bad and ugly.

    -Ed-
    I was gonna comment, but wiped it instead. I didn't think it worth pointing out that just because someone is available to fly a leg doesn't make them the best choice for the team to fly the leg. It's not a slam, just a reminder that this is a TEAM event.

    I'll go crawl back under my rock now.
    "May fortune favor the foolish"
    MaddogK

  25. #50
    Hey All,

    Maddog it is a team event but all teams have strong and weak members. If it is fundamentally about Vince Lombardi's philosophy that winning isn't everything - it is the only thing. That is completely different than an approach that embraces "if you are on the team you can grab the baton and fly. It became apparent that the rules were more just 'suggestions' as was 'the spirit of the race', which if I remember correctly was to have fun."

    We have all seen the evolution of this event from relatively casual to a highly competitive event in the very fastest planes in which just one crash makes you a loser. I think this is unfortunate as I think it excludes a lot of potential pilots - especially if they can never fly what they like. As for myself flying I think I am relatively capable at least in the planes I know but if someone else wants the leg I will always always let them have it no matter what their skill level. I have nothing to prove in a game - I'm fine with being a wing time to time.

    -Ed-
    My heroes have always been cowboys and they all carried guns-
    and they all rode horses-that is all but one.
    When he went to the rescue he flew a Cessna plane.
    His ranch was called the "Flying Crown" and "Sky King" was his name. -Jim Dilly-

    The rich man writes the book of laws that the poor man must defend, but the highest laws are written on the hearts of honest men. - Ricky Skaggs-

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