Round-The-World Race Round-Table

[PRB]

Those of you who have been here a while know about the annual Round-The-World Race that is held this time of year between the Sim-Outhouse, FlightSim, and AVSIM. It started in 2004, and until around 2009 or so, interest and participation has been good. Since that time, however, it seems interest and participation have been on a steady decline. At this point it is not certain the event will be held this year. It might be, if there is interest...

To summarize, for those who don't know what I'm talking about, the Round The World Race:

1. Is held each year in February.
2. Consists of three teams: SOH, FlightSim, and AVSIM.
3. Is a real-time race around the world.
4. Is flown in a series of 700 NM (more or less) legs.
5. Is restricted to piston or twin-turbo-prop aircraft (with some exceptions).
6. Takes about four days of non-stop 24/7 flying (this is why we need many pilots).
7. Does not have to be flown exclusively on-line.
8. Does have to be flown with crash-detection on and using real weather and real time.
9. Is "costly" when legs have to be re-flown due to crashes (this is why we conduct practice races).
10. Is challenging, especially when flying to an airport at midnight in a snow blizzard.
11. Is meant, primarily, as a fun event, and is not to be taken too seriously...

I'd like to generate a discussion here. The questions are: If you are not interested in participating in this event, why? What would change your mind?

Resources:
Official Site
Last Year's SOH Official Race Thread

[Firekitten]

Well I'm in :P

[falcon409]

I've skipped it for a long time, personal reasons. . .but I may give it a go this time around.

[trucker17]

Count me in......
My around the world flight in the A2A C72 is about finished.....

[fliger747]

Being now a Wuzza, I should be able to find time.

Cheers. Tom

[Canelo]

Heck, if no one else is interested SOH should do it!

If no other site wants to compete; do we have enough pilots to have two teams?

To me the FS Community isn't dead yet!

We all about saving resources aren't we?

Push this and make it happen!

[ViperPilot2]

I have followed the RTWR for the last couple of years, but have always been extremely hesitant about signing up, for a couple of reasons:

1) The fear of failing to complete a leg due to my incompetence, thereby costing the Team valuable Race Time and resources.

2) Fear of choosing the wrong Aircraft for a particular Leg, or the lack of a suitable, competitive aircraft.

3) The RTWR, being a highly competitive environment, my 'newbie' status, and the fear of making a long time Team Member angry for whatever reason...

There's one other thing, and I guess that it's just a perception I get from both following the Race and the 364 days of talk building up to Start Day every year...

I know that there are different Themes every year (DC-3 Anniversary, Tri Motor Flight, Piper Cub Flight), and at times on certain legs a specific Airplane has to be flown
for that leg. But when the Race gets going, it just seems that the Duennas always end up listing the same three airplanes; A'hm Available, The P-51H and the Bearcat Long Range.
It just gives me the feeling that if I'm not using one of those specific airplanes, then I'm not 'up to par' with the rest of the racers.

Like I said; it's just a personal perception I have. I hope the RTWR continues to be held... it's one of the oldest FS events out there, and it would be a shame if it went by the wayside.
The people who compete year after year look forward to the camaraderie it brings, and I look forward to watching the Routes take shape as the Race progresses.

[falcon409]

Good points ViperPilot2. . .probably a lot of the reasons others don't participate as well. I know it has been advertised as something that is competitive but never taken too seriously, but some do take it very seriously. . .they may laugh it off but not entirely. Also, the Duenna is a royal pain in my opinion. I know there has to be some way to ensure all legs are flown "by the book" and this option seems to be the only one, so you just have to grin and bear it. Another thing that may keep some from entering are the realism settings. I know a lot of folks fly with everything turned on and that's fine, but I don't and I know others that don't as well and the thought of having to fly that way can put a damper on entering. Some people don't have a light touch and it's very aggravating to be flying for several hours and touch down at the destination, only to register a crash because you touched down a bit too hard or you touched down pretty nicely only to have the plane bounce on you and that second touch will probably be harder (CRASH). You lose your landing gears because you waited a few seconds longer than prescribed to raise them or lose an engine because you weren't monitoring your gauges adequately. When you don't fly that way all the time, the requirement to be sure you do may keep people from bothering to even try.

[Milton Shupe]

Hey guys, good points, but it's the same for everyone, and the reason we spend a month in "training" flights to get comfortable. Even the best flyers have issues be they computer related, software, or granite mountains. It's all part of the challenge and no one is less susceptible. At least be part of the training period, get the aircraft installed (all listed and available), have fun in the practice flights getting familiar with everything. Even if you choose not to fly, there are many other things you can assist with during the race from the sidelines. You will love the fun of the challenge with the team.

I'm in

[Ferry_vO]

I have followed the RTWR for the last couple of years, but have always been extremely hesitant about signing up, for a couple of reasons:

1) The fear of failing to complete a leg due to my incompetence, thereby costing the Team valuable Race Time and resources.

We've all been there and done that... Practice makes (almost) perfect, but unexpected things always happen.

2) Fear of choosing the wrong Aircraft for a particular Leg, or the lack of a suitable, competitive aircraft.

I think the whole team agrees it is better to fly an aircraft you are comfortable in, than take a risk with something 20 kts faster.. Just for that reason the P-38 has been a long time favourite of our team.
Loosing an entire leg is costlier than arriving five minutes later because of a slower aircraft.

3) The RTWR, being a highly competitive environment, my 'newbie' status, and the fear of making a long time Team Member angry for whatever reason...

Once again, we've all had our share of mistakes in the past, no problem there. Try joining a practice session and see how it goes. At least the last few years we could fly with a wingman so we can transfer the 'baton' with a small time penalty. In the 'old days' we had only one pilot on a flight which was even more tense because you would loose up to two hours if you crashed..

There's one other thing, and I guess that it's just a perception I get from both following the Race and the 364 days of talk building up to Start Day every year...

I know that there are different Themes every year (DC-3 Anniversary, Tri Motor Flight, Piper Cub Flight), and at times on certain legs a specific Airplane has to be flown
for that leg. But when the Race gets going, it just seems that the Duennas always end up listing the same three airplanes; A'hm Available, The P-51H and the Bearcat Long Range.
It just gives me the feeling that if I'm not using one of those specific airplanes, then I'm not 'up to par' with the rest of the racers.

The last few races the number of legs for which the really fast aircraft could be flown was limited, so a wider range of models had to be used. Again, fly what you are good at, don't pick the fastest aircraft just because it is fast. It's no good if your thoroughbred has to land at a short field in the Alps in the dark and you nose over when you apply the brakes..

[Ferry_vO]

Good points ViperPilot2. . .probably a lot of the reasons others don't participate as well. I know it has been advertised as something that is competitive but never taken too seriously, but some do take it very seriously. . .they may laugh it off but not entirely. Also, the Duenna is a royal pain in my opinion. I know there has to be some way to ensure all legs are flown "by the book" and this option seems to be the only one, so you just have to grin and bear it. Another thing that may keep some from entering are the realism settings. I know a lot of folks fly with everything turned on and that's fine, but I don't and I know others that don't as well and the thought of having to fly that way can put a damper on entering. Some people don't have a light touch and it's very aggravating to be flying for several hours and touch down at the destination, only to register a crash because you touched down a bit too hard or you touched down pretty nicely only to have the plane bounce on you and that second touch will probably be harder (CRASH). You lose your landing gears because you waited a few seconds longer than prescribed to raise them or lose an engine because you weren't monitoring your gauges adequately. When you don't fly that way all the time, the requirement to be sure you do may keep people from bothering to even try.

The Duenna is quite easy to work with Ed, just don't forget to press start before you take off.... (Been there, done that.... )

The realism settings may seem daunting at first, but you'll end up a better pilot for it; at least I did! Flying 'by the numbers' may sound hard, but in the end is quite rewarding. Like Milton said, that's why we practice a lot. And there are still aircraft in FsX (Or Fs9) that you can fly full throttle without any risk of breaking the engine..

I hope to fly a few legs this year, and with my new computer I might even get Teamspeak to work this time round...

[falcon409]

This wouldn't have been a question for me a few months ago, but I recently started flying in P3D almost exclusively. Will that be permitted for the Race or are we limited to FS9/FSX? I have noticed that some FSX (compatible) aircraft lose their VC clickability when moved into P3D which would be a minor problem.

[Milton Shupe]

This wouldn't have been a question for me a few months ago, but I recently started flying in P3D almost exclusively. Will that be permitted for the Race or are we limited to FS9/FSX? I have noticed that some FSX (compatible) aircraft lose their VC clickability when moved into P3D which would be a minor problem.

That should be easy enough to test Falcon. If you visit the RTWR forum, you can also find a whitelist of aircraft commonly used to test in P3D.

@Ferry: great points :-)

[falcon409]

That should be easy enough to test Falcon. If you visit the RTWR forum, you can also find a whitelist of aircraft commonly used to test in P3D. . . .

Thanks Milton. Your F-7F is one that I enjoy flying constantly (those engine sounds are awesome, lol), but in P3D it loses all clickability. It's still very flyable, you just can't set/reset anything in the VC and the canopy transparency had to get a darker alpha as it was kind of a "smoke" color at first. The F-7F, F-8F and P-38 would be the three I'd be flying.

[Ferry_vO]

Will that be permitted for the Race or are we limited to FS9/FSX?

The lack of a real-weather engine in P3D was the reason it wasn't allowed, but I don't know if any improvements were made in V2.

[falcon409]

The lack of a real-weather engine in P3D was the reason it wasn't allowed, but I don't know if any improvements were made in V2.

Still the same. . .doesn't look like that's a priority right now. There is a freeware weather generator "FSrealWX_Lite", that I've been using that appears to work just fine, It's not Active Sky or REX level as far as the options available. . .it just generates the weather based on METARS and I assume uses the default textures. Supposedly they are working on a Version 2 that is "Coming Soon", but the last update was about 2 months ago and nothing recent has been posted.

[Howellerman]

Despite being a raw newbie, lo 12 months ago, I had an absolute gas participating in the Western Roundup. And even though I ended up second to last in the Silver division, I *learned* a ton about real world flying. Still learning today, starting on IFR training for the cold winter months.

That is why I echo Falcon's concerns - I do not want to be the weak link in the chain! Not to mention the event happens in real time, and my real time has a bad habit of getting blown up on a routine basis. And I guess, deep down, that I have never been much of a team-person - the exception being baseball...

That being said, I am definitely looking forward to a repeat of the Western Roundup, Mexico Goat Rodeo, Antics in the Alps, or whatever the *individual* context will be this year. Thanks to Paul and crew (and of course the lovely Miss Murphy) for organizing these events!

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

A couple coments.

If you have any interest I would recommend trying the Holkam Bay for the holidays event at flightsim - here:

http://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/showth...-Holidays-Dash

Just looking at the posts many are flying it just for fun but you can go as competitively as you like.

It will give you a good idea of what the RTW can be like and is a good "refresher" for those who have been there done that.

I haven't flown it yet but think I will this weekend.if I can get FS9 to "turnover".


As for being a "weak link" I wouldn't worry about it - this race is supposed to be fun.

-Ed-

[Howellerman]

The lack of a real-weather engine in P3D was the reason it wasn't allowed, but I don't know if any improvements were made in V2.

??

I run P3D V1.4 running OPUS with REX textures, and if it is raining outside, it is raining in the simulation. In fact, before I fly now I check the Weather.com site to see how screwy the weather is before I take off.

That doesn't represent a real-weather engine?

[Howellerman]

Hey All,
If you have any interest I would recommend trying the Holkam Bay for the holidays event at flightsim - here:

http://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/showth...-Holidays-Dash

-Ed-

Whoa - just laid in the course between PAJN (close enough to the fictional Holkham Bay?) and KDTW in Plan G - it shows a polar circumnavigation curve! That is a quite a trek!

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

No you do need to download and install holkam bay and glacier bay and runway12 objects all available at flightsim. PAHB holkam should be your destination. You can fly it at your leisure. Look through others completed flights and you'll see how folks have been doing it - some one jet leg others multiple hops - depending on class.

-Ed-

[falcon409]

??
I run P3D V1.4 running OPUS with REX textures, and if it is raining outside, it is raining in the simulation. In fact, before I fly now I check the Weather.com site to see how screwy the weather is before I take off.
That doesn't represent a real-weather engine?

Yes, it does. . .but not everyone may have that setup and since P3D doesn't yet have the internal weather engine, it requires that if you want to use that Sim you must have a standalone weather generator that will give you the required RW Weather for the Race.

[Howellerman]

Yes, it does. . .but not everyone may have that setup and since P3D doesn't yet have the internal weather engine, it requires that if you want to use that Sim you must have a standalone weather generator that will give you the required RW Weather for the Race.

Ah - thanks for the clarification.

Although I do have to question whether FSX has a *real* weather engine sometimes... I found it so frustrating during the Western Roundup that I switched to the OpusFSX engine mid-race.

[falcon409]

Ah - thanks for the clarification.
Although I do have to question whether FSX has a *real* weather engine sometimes... I found it so frustrating during the Western Roundup that I switched to the OpusFSX engine mid-race.

I had heard/read in here or the FS9 forums that the RW Weather updates in FSX were no longer working. . .do you know anything about that?

[PRB]

Last year P3D was not allowed, I think, because of issues of “real weather” capability. If, for example, an FS9 pilot from Team A is flying with the “built-in” real weather selected, and a P3D pilot from “Team B” is flying with FSRealWX, the possibility exists that the two pilots, over the same airport, will get significantly different interpretations of “real”. So, the rule is, everyone must use the same weather source. Not sure where this rule stands today. If we have a race, we'll have to wait and see what the Roolz Committee says on this.

As for not wanting to let the team down, well, we've all started at the same place. It is challenging, no question about it. But that's why we hold practice runs. Practice works! And in addition to sharpening your flying and landing skills, it gets you familiar with the steps involved in flying a leg as the baton holder. 1) Make sure your plane is ready to go, parked on the runway. 2) Make your “I have the baton, KNLC - KFAT” post in the racing thread. 3) Make sure your duenna is running and “armed”. 4) Fly the leg, don't overspeed, don't get lost (you can use GPS), land without crashing (hehe). 5) Make your “The Baton Is Free At KFAT” post. That's all there is to it!

It's great when you've completed a leg in bad weather, at night (without bumping into the mountain off the east side of the runway) and the next pilot has taken off for the next leg. You grab a hotdog and coffee at the diner, relax and say “dang, that was intense!” And you'll have team mates parked at your destination airport. They will be reporting weather conditions there. And if the weather is bad, and you're flying online, you can use that as a “beacon” to locate the runway, since the red tags of the other players will show up ten miles out (or two if it's really foggy...)