Son of Blackbird?

[RKinkor]

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/new...013/sr-72.html Was wondering if anybody else saw this and what their thoughts are on it.My initial thought is 10 years before 1st flight! Interesting how the world has turned, "Kelly Johnson" and the original skunk works did it in half the time. Now it takes 17 years (keep the funding coming). On the other (more positive) hand, Mach 6 and there maybe a manned version! Somebody should do this for the sims.

[Daveroo]

im in northern california, and a long rocks throw from Beale AFB.for many months weve been hearing a SWWWWOOOSH'ing sound ( like a rocket engine coming in the lower atmosphere,like you would have heard on a syfi movie from the 50s or 60s)..seriously.i also listen to the air and ground ops from Beale AFB and those nights tha i heard the swwwooshing..id also heard beale clearing all of there airspace,and norcal ATC would tell airliners and other come from the mustang VOR,go wide of Beales airspace.i saw this announcement a few weeks ago or so.and i had realised the sound had stopped...just an odd coincidence?..

[Skyhawk_310R]

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/new...013/sr-72.html Was wondering if anybody else saw this and what their thoughts are on it.My initial thought is 10 years before 1st flight! Interesting how the world has turned, "Kelly Johnson" and the original skunk works did it in half the time. Now it takes 17 years (keep the funding coming). On the other (more positive) hand, Mach 6 and there maybe a manned version! Somebody should do this for the sims.

Do you have any real basis for making your "keep the funding coming" comment? Meaning, do you have any special insight into concluding that is a major reason it will take 17 years? I ask because I'm pretty astute on the history of the SR-71 and the amount of resources poured into that program. Yes, it was done relatively short term but the impetus was the Cold War and the awareness that for all the effort poured into the U-2 it was a strategic failure and something had to replace it. It had to be rushed because the stakes were just that high.

Do you appreciate how small the military is today compared to back when the U-2 and SR-71 were created, or how much smaller the defense industry is today compared to then? Do you appreciate how long ramjet technology had been around before Kelly Johnson adopted it for the SR-71? Do you realize that the hypersonic engine is still very much in its infancy and just how incredibly difficult it truly is to harness such technology? The best statement I have heard is, "trying to keep a match lit in a hurricane!"

Do you appreciate how totally to the edge Kelly Johnson reached on materials engineering just to reach around Mach 3.0? Now, we are talking doubling that speed! And inherent in doubling that speed is developing entirely new materials. How many years went between Mach 1.5 tops to Mach 3.0?

Manned versions? Doubtful. It is unnecessary today. That kind of mission this spaceplane will be designated for won't need a man onboard to carry out that mission. Having the man onboard requires a lot of heavy and complicated life support systems and by the year 2030 there just won't be technological barriers to making it remotely piloted and controlled, with a heavy emphasis on autonomous control. The remote man interface will simply need to conduct inflight changes to the mission.

Now, I'm not taking anything away from Kelly Johnson (even if he hated the C-130) as the man was a pure genius. He pulled off a miracle a day on the SR-71 program. But, things are progressing more slowly now because there just aren't that many resources and that many people around to do this work today. There's also no reason to rush. However, I do think those people working on the SR-72 project deserve a similar degree of respect.

Cheers,

Ken

[norab]

let's talk airplanes, not politics

[Toastmaker]

He was talking airplanes. Their development history is part of their story.

[RKinkor]

Do you have any real basis for making your "keep the funding coming" comment? Meaning, do you have any special insight into concluding that is a major reason it will take 17 years? I ask because I'm pretty astute on the history of the SR-71 and the amount of resources poured into that program. Yes, it was done relatively short term but the impetus was the Cold War and the awareness that for all the effort poured into the U-2 it was a strategic failure and something had to replace it. It had to be rushed because the stakes were just that high.

Do you appreciate how small the military is today compared to back when the U-2 and SR-71 were created, or how much smaller the defense industry is today compared to then? Do you appreciate how long ramjet technology had been around before Kelly Johnson adopted it for the SR-71? Do you realize that the hypersonic engine is still very much in its infancy and just how incredibly difficult it truly is to harness such technology? The best statement I have heard is, "trying to keep a match lit in a hurricane!"

Do you appreciate how totally to the edge Kelly Johnson reached on materials engineering just to reach around Mach 3.0? Now, we are talking doubling that speed! And inherent in doubling that speed is developing entirely new materials. How many years went between Mach 1.5 tops to Mach 3.0?

Manned versions? Doubtful. It is unnecessary today. That kind of mission this spaceplane will be designated for won't need a man onboard to carry out that mission. Having the man onboard requires a lot of heavy and complicated life support systems and by the year 2030 there just won't be technological barriers to making it remotely piloted and controlled, with a heavy emphasis on autonomous control. The remote man interface will simply need to conduct inflight changes to the mission.

Now, I'm not taking anything away from Kelly Johnson (even if he hated the C-130) as the man was a pure genius. He pulled off a miracle a day on the SR-71 program. But, things are progressing more slowly now because there just aren't that many resources and that many people around to do this work today. There's also no reason to rush. However, I do think those people working on the SR-72 project deserve a similar degree of respect.

Cheers,

Ken

Wow sorry I upset you so much. I as well am a great fan of the Habu (also have hands on experience with the A-12 version as a volunteer at a museum helping reassemble and paint it) and very well aware of the circumstances of it's development. In fact there was something mentioned in another article on this press release that state there will be a manned version as prototype work for the engine but I did not use that sites article for the link as felt an official annoucement from Lockmart was more believeable. To address your concerns as to if I appreciate how small the military is today I say considering I lost 2 or 3 jobs due to military RIFs going back to the Clinton Administration (by the way not a political shot just a timeline thing), I would say I definitely do. Also they had the tech and wherewithal to do this years ago but pissed the opportunity away because of the whole Satellites Are Better bs (and I say BS because apparently they are not if they are seriously considering the SR-72). Also in this case it should not be unmanned as then it will counter hacking or whatever the happened to that stealth drone the Iranians bagged a few years ago.
One other point I would like to raise is this, in regards to my comment about funding is this. Wasn't there funding being tossed around for eliminating sonic booms from supersonic aircraft a few years ago? Probably too late now but couldn't the money be better spent refurbing the SR's that have not had their spars cut get them flying again because I don't think there is any air defence that is threat to Mach 3 aircraft today.
I meant no disrespect towards anyone at Lockmart btw, I know they are doing the best they can.
Have nice day
Randy

[RKinkor]

im in northern california, and a long rocks throw from Beale AFB.for many months weve been hearing a SWWWWOOOSH'ing sound ( like a rocket engine coming in the lower atmosphere,like you would have heard on a syfi movie from the 50s or 60s)..seriously.i also listen to the air and ground ops from Beale AFB and those nights tha i heard the swwwooshing..id also heard beale clearing all of there airspace,and norcal ATC would tell airliners and other come from the mustang VOR,go wide of Beales airspace.i saw this announcement a few weeks ago or so.and i had realised the sound had stopped...just an odd coincidence?..

Cool dave! Back during the government shutdown me and 10 other guys heard a sonic boom in the vicinity Minneapolis Saint Paul airport in the afternoon. I checked into it with the FAA and ATC after the shutdown and they couldn't help me. Thought about calling Duluth ANG but kind of afraid to cross that line.

[Skyhawk_310R]

Fair enough, Randy. My purpose for that reply was primarily to emphasize what a quantum leap in technology the SR-72 truly represents. Times are different today. Not as much will be spent (in constant year dollars) but that means it will take longer to develop. But, the real issue is also the real challenge. It isn't merely a case of needing double the resource/time to double the performance. It's more along the line of twice the horsepower for four times the energy! That's the base equation engineers use to determine what a plane is going to cost. So, in this case, it is trying to achieve double the performance at a time when what was half the performance would still represent the top of the performance pyramid to this day!

Up to this point, there has been what amounts to dabbling and theory with regard to a Mach 6.0 spaceplane. This is the first attempt to actually produce that kind of technology for a true production spaceplane. I keep saying spaceplane because that's really what we are talking about here. No, it won't go into orbit nor will it escape atmosphere because after all the hypersonic engine does require atmospheric air. But, the altitudes will be at the lower limits of outer space.

What this plane represents is quick response intelligence and surveillance. In short, something with all the capabilities of national asset satellites, but with the kind of response and flexibility not seen since the SR-71. In short, you can takeoff and be over any portion of the planet in a few hours at an altitude and speed combination that makes the plane truly untouchable. Assuming you could even get a SAM up to Mach 6.0 it would merely parallel the bloody thing, and then you'd have to catch up on around a 90,000 foot altitude advantage!

The plane is the result of a ton of program research on the elements. Now, we seek to put it together into one operational package. It is a very exciting program. A lot of the best aerospace engineering and materials engineers are going to work on this. They are going to put their souls into it to make it happen. But, when you reach for something never before attained, you cannot be certain of success.

My view on the Iranians? Well, that would be politics and besides I tend not to comment on habitual liars and cheats! LOL!!!

Ken

[RKinkor]

Fair enough, Randy. My purpose for that reply was primarily to emphasize what a quantum leap in technology the SR-72 truly represents. Times are different today. Not as much will be spent (in constant year dollars) but that means it will take longer to develop. But, the real issue is also the real challenge. It isn't merely a case of needing double the resource/time to double the performance. It's more along the line of twice the horsepower for four times the energy! That's the base equation engineers use to determine what a plane is going to cost. So, in this case, it is trying to achieve double the performance at a time when what was half the performance would still represent the top of the performance pyramid to this day!

Up to this point, there has been what amounts to dabbling and theory with regard to a Mach 6.0 spaceplane. This is the first attempt to actually produce that kind of technology for a true production spaceplane. I keep saying spaceplane because that's really what we are talking about here. No, it won't go into orbit nor will it escape atmosphere because after all the hypersonic engine does require atmospheric air. But, the altitudes will be at the lower limits of outer space.

What this plane represents is quick response intelligence and surveillance. In short, something with all the capabilities of national asset satellites, but with the kind of response and flexibility not seen since the SR-71. In short, you can takeoff and be over any portion of the planet in a few hours at an altitude and speed combination that makes the plane truly untouchable. Assuming you could even get a SAM up to Mach 6.0 it would merely parallel the bloody thing, and then you'd have to catch up on around a 90,000 foot altitude advantage!

The plane is the result of a ton of program research on the elements. Now, we seek to put it together into one operational package. It is a very exciting program. A lot of the best aerospace engineering and materials engineers are going to work on this. They are going to put their souls into it to make it happen. But, when you reach for something never before attained, you cannot be certain of success.

My view on the Iranians? Well, that would be politics and besides I tend not to comment on habitual liars and cheats! LOL!!!

Ken

My only referral to the Iranians was as a reasoning for a manned aircraft. I really do hope they get it working, I just wish it didn't have to be done this way. The SR-71 should never have been retired but that also dabbles into polititics and on them we wholeheartedly agree. lol

[Railrunner130]

I saw that article a few weeks ago. My only real thought was "Really?"

There have been rumors about this theoretical aircraft for 20-30 years. However, with projects like the X-51 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_X-51 it proves we weren't as advanced as our imaginations.

Perhaps it's the fact that the 72 will be unmanned that I'm not really that interested in it.