DC-8 Jetliner Series 10 to 40 Nov4 sticky

[Pepere]

DC-8 Now at Just Flight. Who really makes this model DC-8.


David

[johndetrick]

I just picked it up. It's crap! I flew DC-8's for 20 years. Both as a PFE and a FO. I also worked as a mechanic on them for 5. I've got about 2 pages of things wrong right now. Not really too much stuff that is DC-8 specific. Just general flight sim stuff. They should've beta tested it a bit longer. Much like a certain website.

[Ian Warren]

Not a Air New Zealand yet but gives you the base pack as we had the 50 series , I do like the sound package .



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[dhasdell]

You just can't beat a bit of constructive criticism.

[johndetrick]

Just a partial list Flight Director doesn't work. Autopilot VS doesn't work. Cabin pressure control lever and hydraulic selector lever animated backwards, When opening the fwd aux fuel tank selector, the motors quit, regardless of how much fuel you have in the main tanks. The PTC indicator should be on the FO's yoke only. Grossly overpowered. Way too sensitive on the controls. This thing was a beast to fly. Altitude select indicator does not work properly. And what's with the nav gauge in the lower left panel? #2 VOR? or ADF? Max pitch angle was limited to 18 degrees, because at twenty the horizontal stab was washed out by the airflow coming off the wing. You should not be able to climb out at 20+ degrees and 4000 fpm. That's just from the first five minutes of "flying" this thing. They could've put some sound to the turbocompressors and recirc fans. You can really hear them in the cockpit. Visually from the outside the model is good. The VC even looks decent. That airspeed gauge should not have been used. To modern. We didn't have airspeed gauges like that until we updated the air data system for RVSM operations. The altimeter is crappy. It's reminiscent of the old three needle altimeter United used to use. Notice I said used to. It was found to be a bit confusing and dangerous.

[Bjoern]

...

...

Forward that to JF and help 'em to get it right in a service pack if you've got hands-on experience.

[delta_lima]

I'm with Bjoern on this one.

Lemons to lemonade - a golden opportunity for JF to add some polish to their product, and a great chance for John to capture and pass along his real-world experience. Win-Win-Win - for JF, for John, and for the sim community.

Here's to hoping a positive redirection of the energy can prevail.

I native DC-8 is a must-buy for me, if the issues are sorted - no doubt about that. A pity there's no '50, one of the most prolific of the pre-stretch period. Looks good so far, would love to pick this up.

DL

[pbearsailor]

I don't think this is like fecal material and it bothers me that those references are used.

I bought it and i will enjoy it. This is an FSX native DC-8 from JustFlight. I didn't expect PMDG quality and I try to understand that JustFlight doesn't really have me in mind with their products. The modeling seems very good and it's the best VC I have seen from JustFlight--it's pretty good.

Some things don't seem to work and I'm guessing that some will be fixed and some won't. I knew that would be the case when I bought it. If the flight model turns out to be too far off for me I can probably look at HJG's freeware versions and make it better.

I'm happy that JustFlight made an FSX native DC-8. Nobody else has made one.
cheers,
steve

[Ian Warren]

Ole smokey It only smokes at specific power levels, mainly takeoff... The NZFF boys given me a ribbing so had to post some smokies out



I do like some of the more exotic paints that come it .. checking all out :mixedsmi:
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[Ian Warren]

I'm with Bjoern on this one.
I native DC-8 is a must-buy for me, if the issues are sorted - no doubt about that. A pity there's no '50, one of the most prolific of the pre-stretch period. Looks good so far, would love to pick this up.

DL , I followed the Just Flight pages every day and saw the 50's and up the range to the 60 and 70s with the big fans , be along the same line as the the JF Constellation , be a second batch , that is what i also require to suit our ex old T.E.A.L - Air New Zealand aircraft , it a great model and look at the Price !

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[Martyn]

Just to clarify, this was beta tested for a significant amount of time including by some ex DC-8 crew members. If you have spotted any issues or have any general (constructive) feedback then please contact the support team who will pass it on to the relevant people: http://www.justflight.com/support-contact

[RAS_JF]

Hi,

You can download/view the DC-8 manual here for more details - http://www.justflightdownloads.com/e...o40_manual.pdf

[Pepere]

Aircraft sold at Just flight are not always made by Just Flight. Some are made by CLS or other FSX addon aircraft.
So what addon aircraft maker make the DC-8???


David

[Tim-HH]

You can download/view the DC-8 manual here for more details - http://www.justflightdownloads.com/e...o40_manual.pdf

So what addon aircraft maker make the DC-8???

Just take a look at the credits on page 56.

Greetings
Tim

[yankeeromeo]

Hello,

Glad to see a FSX native Diesel-8 but, as i'm not interested about the 10-40 series, do you plan the 61 to 63 series with the JT3D-7 or CFM56 engines:salute:

[Pepere]

Just take a look at the credits on page 56.

Greetings
Tim

Thanks.. Will have to try this one.

David

[bully707]

I am a B707 man myself...but having spent some (ground)time on -61/63 and -71/73 in the past, I really had to have one...
Yes...the early and "short" versions are not really what I had hoped for, still...I bought it, took it for a spin and love it!

I never flew a DC8 or worked on one as a mechanic...so I wouldn't be able to spot any discrepancies with it anyways...

For me...that thing is just brilliant! Yeah...I can be impressed easily some might say but I think I am just happy with what I can get. :salute:

[pbearsailor]

Aircraft sold at Just flight are not always made by Just Flight. Some are made by CLS or other FSX addon aircraft.
So what addon aircraft maker make the DC-8???


David

Aeroplane Heaven, David.

-steve

[Pepere]

Aeroplane Heaven, David.

-steve

Thanks. I don't like WILCO - Not compatible with my hardware.

David

[yankeeromeo]

I am a B707 man myself...

pretty nice screenies but what we need is:
Cheers.

[bazzar]

Patience my friend, patience.

When a developer builds under contract for a publisher, conditions apply. Costs, timing, specifications, QA and many more. This means different projects have different outcomes. Personally I find the process refreshing and would not have it any other way.

You would like PMDG? Thankyou that will be 3 Years.
You would like a "CntrlE" package? Thankyou that will be 3-4 months.
You would like 32 different versions? Thankyou. My sons are fully trained to take over when I die so continuity should not be a problem.


Glad some of you are enjoying it.



CEO Aeroplane Heaven UK, Europe, US and East Asia divisions.

[CG_1976]

? for the JF and or Design Team Re: Beta OS. Can anyone tell me if any test where carried out under Windows 8 system. I am looking for a FSX native DC8 and JF pricing is in my ballpark.

[johndetrick]

Just posted this on the Just Flight forum

I want to preface this by saying that I like this product. It just needs more work. I also want to state that I have a lot of knowledge on this subject as I flew them for 20 years. Both as a Professional Flight Engineer and a First Officer. I also worked as a mechanic on them for 5 years. These are all problems that should have been caught by beta testers. So here goes, it's long list.

Initial Observations on the DC-8


Enginners Panel:

1. There is an apu position on the volt/freq selector. Very few DC-8's had an apu installed.
   
2. Hydraulic system selector lever should normally be in the middle position. The lower position is an emergency position. This lever should be left in the middle position for normal ops.
   
3. Cabin pressure control is shown in the manual locked position. The knob should be rotated
   90 degrees and colored yellow.
   
4. Fuel temp selector- Usually there is no selector, fuel temp is read from the number 4 main tank only.
   
5. The N1 and N2 gauges are reversed. Normally N1 is on the engine indicating panel up front. Howeverer, I have seen one airplane with the N1, N2 gauges in this configuration. It was originally ordered by Swissair.
   
6. Ground cooling/bloway jet switch is labelled but not installed.
   
7. Your fuel panel setup for the engine start is really incorrect. Engines were never started feeding from the center main tank. When you think about it, a lot of flights were done with no fuel in the center tank. The normal start configuration was all crossfeed levers up, the fuel selector levers (white levers) feeding the engines from their respective main tank. All main boost pumps on. After each engine was started, it's boost pump was shut off to check the engine driven fuel pump pressure. A negative pressure indicated a failure. The boost pumps were turned back on during the before takeoff checklist.
   
8. The Aileron and Rudder manual reversion lights should come on when the hydraulic power levers are placed in the down position. These levers are normally down when the aircraft is shutdown. They shutoff the hydraulic fluid to the aileron and rudder power packs when you have a hydraulic leak. They are placed on during the after start checklist.
   
9. Cabin VSI indicates a climb of 1500 fpm all the time.
   
10. The hydraulic aux pump should read 2800 to 3000 psi, not 1600 psi.
    
11. When the engine hydraulic bypass switches are placed in bypass, the only thing that should go down is the hydraulic pressure.
    
12. No sounds for the turbo compressors or recirculation fans. You really hear them when you
    put them on.
    
13. No bell with the fire warning test.

Overhead:

1. 1. The fire shutoff switch cover should have a white dot about halfway up from verbage to the beginning of its travel. This indicates at what position the generator field trips.
      
   2. The standby magnetic compass is normally mounted in the ceiling behind the captains seat. The pilots normally viewed it using a mirror in front of each position. The navigator could look up to his right and view it. The pilots usually adjusted these during their preflight and then folded them down.
      
   3. The engine anti ice lights were normally out. They were disagreement lights. If the valve position disagreed with the switch position, they came on. When the switch was placed either open or closed the light would flicker briefly for 1 or 2 seconds.

Main Instrument panels:

1. Standby airspeed indicator. Never saw one. It wasn't needed because the DC-8 had two independent pitot static systems.
   
2. #1 VOR omnirange indicator should not be there. #1 Vor is indicated on the captains HSI and the #2 VOR is indicated on the FO's HSI.
   
3. The RMI should read both VOR and ADF selectable by a pair of two position switches located on the bottom of the RMI. These were called the suicide switches.
   
4. Standby attitude indicator not installed until the 1970's.
   
5. The airspeed indicator is too modern. The digital readouts did not come along until the 2000's when aircraft were made RVSM compliant by replacing the air data system.
   The maximum airspeed pointer was not hooked to the autothrottle. It was used as a ref bug for threshold speed (Vth) and V2+10. It should be orange/red.
   
6. Autothrottle-No autothrottles were installed on the early aircraft. They weren't installed until the 60 series. And then were not used much. It was found that they didn't work well and were disconnected.
   
7. The altimeter with a digital readout wasn't used until the aircraft were made RVSM compliant. In any case your altimeter does not indicate the altitude correctly.
   
8. Altitude Selector/Alerter (In the center top part of the glareshield.) Should not follow the
   altitude. The pilot not flying selects the altitude that they are cleared to. At 800 ft below the target altitude an aural alert is sounded and an amber light is illuminated. Once leveled
   off, if the aircraft deviates +- 200 ft from the altitude indicated in the selector window, the warnings occur. The same thing happens in reverse when descending. 800 ft above the selected altitude the warnings come on.
   
9. Slot light. No slot light installed. An amber light, usually on the FO's panel that illuminates
   when the flaps extend past 7 degrees and the slots are not open. It will also come on when the flaps retract past two degrees and the slots are not closed. When flaps are extend or retracted it normally comes on for one or two seconds as everything cycles.
   
10. Flap position indicator has two pointers.
    
11. The autopilot warning lights and position indicators are normally on the captains side. The aircraft only has one set installed. They can be on the FO's side, but then they wouldn't be on the captains side.
    
12. Auto pilot servo switches are normally on the captains side only, if they are installed. Not every aircraft had them.
    
13. PTC indicator is on the FO's yoke only.
    
14. Parking brake animation is backwards. To set the parking brake, you pull up.
    
15. Hydraulic brake pressure gauge should read a max of 3000 psi.
    
16. The full flaps placard should not be there on the early aircraft. Flaps 50 was a normal landing flap position. Flaps 35 became the normal landing position when the hushkits were installed and the aircraft had to be stage 3 noise compliant. By landing at flaps 35 versus flaps 50 it lowered the power setting required and hence the noise. In fact when I flew the 61,62 and 63 aircraft we quite often had an "emergency" landing. Flaps 50 is still the normal landing flaps for the 70 series as they have cfm-56 turbofans installed and are stage 3 compliant.
    
17. The autopilot turn knob should not be hooked to the heading bug. If you were flying along in heading select and wanted to turn the aircraft for a deviation of some sort, you rotate the turn knob out of it's center detente in the direction you wished to turn. The autopilot would snap out of heading select.
    
18. The vertical speed wheel function is incorrect. The white index mark should be the zero fpm rate of climb position. When there, it is also the altitude hold switch. There is no separate altitude hold switch. When flying the aircraft on autopilot, the pilot places a fingertip on the VS wheel and keeps it there while rotating it towards the rear to climb, and forward to descend. When approaching your target altitude you would slowly reduce the rate of climb to zero. At that point you could feel the feel settle into its altitude hold detent.
    Those aircraft that did have a separate altitude hold switch, it was a flight director function.
    
19. The flight director does not work properly. The switch should definitely have separate detentes for each position. The FI position will follow the heading bug. The other functions will follow the nav sources.

I think that if these are corrected a good product will turn into a classic outstanding project.

[delta_lima]

Comprehensive feedback John - well done!

Baz, wasn't trying to sound "down" about there not being a '50 - something about those gills in the engine nacelles - really like that version. ... but I'm still happy that there is the '40. I understand these are big complex projects - I know you have to "peg" a set of variants, and on such a diverse model family like the '8, the number of iterations is enormous. It's not for no reason that Dee Waldron took as long as he did on the HJG family, and that was with VC-less models.

Anyone who has this can comment on the FPS? Say, using the JF Comet as a benchmark? Hope it's not like the CS 707 and 737. Those are completely unusable on my current rig. If they're good, I'll be picking this up on the weekend when I return home ....


DL
thanks!

[bazzar]

Indeed not down at all. In fact Iam grateful for the input John and much of it will be extremely useful for the next update. We do use official manuals and some of these do differ from your descriptions so i guess it is going to come down to finding some middle. For example, the fuel setting is setup from the chart in the official United ops manual. Please also remember that FSX was not designed for many of the systems code demanded by today's simmers so compromises and workarounds are inevitable.

If it can be done witin a reasonable timeframe, it will be.