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Thread: FS2004 Screenshots Here!!!

  1. #3576
    Senior Administrator huub vink's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyG43 View Post

    Attachment 91776

    Good luck with this one Huub.
    That is Reichsluftfahrtministerium colour RLM02, also a mystery colour

    But about the Spitfire prototype....

    Reports on the colour of K5054 include:



    • "This was a shade of blue-grey commonly called "French Grey" and was arrived at by adding blue pigment to a grey enamel base." (Robinson 1977)
    • "Also the prototype was painted for the first time, with a very smooth light blue-grey finish." (Price 1982 p. 39)
    • "At this stage the opportunity was taken to paint the aircraft in a pale blue finish, ..." (McLelland 2013, p. 49)
    • "K5054 at Eastleigh in the cerulean blue finish in which it visited a number of air stations on Empire Day" (Andrew and Morgan 1981, p.216)
    • According to Neil Cooper; "R.J. Mitchell gave his son a model truck painted with the same paint as the full size aircraft. We were able to make that paint by contacting the Spitfire museum in the UK, where the toy is held, and getting the colour scanned," (Smith 2019)
    • Quill described its accuracy (Tangmere replica) as "99% to the original prototype", although it is non-flying. The overall colour was copied from a desktop model of K5054, believed to have been finished using paint left over from the original machine.


    So all experts at least agree to disagree!
    When you look at the Tangmere replica, the colour looks different depending the angle form which the picture is taken.

    The decal supplier AlleyCat state the prototype has been repainted, which might explain a part of the confusion. The first blue-green finish was close to FS34325 (Tangmere replica) and in December 1937 it was painted in a colour called French Grey, which was a bit lighter and a bit more greyish than FS35414. Now the next problem has arrived. Do a search on the colour FS25414 and you get at least twenty different colours called French Grey, Light blue, blue green, paint blue........

    Cheers,
    Huub

  2. #3577
    Senior Administrator huub vink's Avatar
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    The prototype in one of the many shades of FS35414. A US Federal Standard which was developed 11 years after WWII, so definitely not in place when the prototype was painted



    But I like the colour, it is more or less blue, green and grey all in one!



    And painted with the paint supplied by Andy.... Different, and definitely not blue-ish, green-ish or grey-ish, but definitely not bad. And I think a sort of common colour in this pre-war period.

    Cheers,
    Huub

  3. #3578
    Quote Originally Posted by huub vink View Post
    That is Reichsluftfahrtministerium colour RLM02, also a mystery colour

    But about the Spitfire prototype....

    Reports on the colour of K5054 include:



    • "This was a shade of blue-grey commonly called "French Grey" and was arrived at by adding blue pigment to a grey enamel base." (Robinson 1977)
    • "Also the prototype was painted for the first time, with a very smooth light blue-grey finish." (Price 1982 p. 39)
    • "At this stage the opportunity was taken to paint the aircraft in a pale blue finish, ..." (McLelland 2013, p. 49)
    • "K5054 at Eastleigh in the cerulean blue finish in which it visited a number of air stations on Empire Day" (Andrew and Morgan 1981, p.216)
    • According to Neil Cooper; "R.J. Mitchell gave his son a model truck painted with the same paint as the full size aircraft. We were able to make that paint by contacting the Spitfire museum in the UK, where the toy is held, and getting the colour scanned," (Smith 2019)
    • Quill described its accuracy (Tangmere replica) as "99% to the original prototype", although it is non-flying. The overall colour was copied from a desktop model of K5054, believed to have been finished using paint left over from the original machine.


    So all experts at least agree to disagree!
    When you look at the Tangmere replica, the colour looks different depending the angle form which the picture is taken.

    The decal supplier AlleyCat state the prototype has been repainted, which might explain a part of the confusion. The first blue-green finish was close to FS34325 (Tangmere replica) and in December 1937 it was painted in a colour called French Grey, which was a bit lighter and a bit more greyish than FS35414. Now the next problem has arrived. Do a search on the colour FS25414 and you get at least twenty different colours called French Grey, Light blue, blue green, paint blue........

    Cheers,
    Huub
    You've got (private) mail.
    Andy

  4. #3579
    Quote Originally Posted by AndyG43 View Post
    Ah, "What IS that colour on the RAF F4j
    He he, it was a US version ( closest / nearest) of the UK Barley grey shades , the first few got repainted into standard UK Barley grey at major overhaul (ZE350/351/352) ..I worked on them.

    Ttfn

    Pete

  5. #3580
    Quote Originally Posted by Motormouse View Post
    He he, it was a US version ( closest / nearest) of the UK Barley grey shades , the first few got repainted into standard UK Barley grey at major overhaul (ZE350/351/352) ..I worked on them.

    Ttfn

    Pete
    It was weird, every photograph seemed different because of lighting/weather conditions. Personally I thought it was funny watching people get so het up over it.
    Andy

  6. #3581
    Senior Administrator huub vink's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyG43 View Post
    It was weird, every photograph seemed different because of lighting/weather conditions. Personally I thought it was funny watching people get so het up over it.
    Colours (or colors) have always been a good subject for lively discussions! Like many from us, my background in aviation started with the plastic models from Frog and Airfix. Mainly the single engine fighters as I couldn't afford much more. Humbrol was the only model paint available, so their green 66 matched the German RLM standard, the British BS381 standard and the American ANA standard without any problem.
    Looking back, the problem must have started when Humbrol started their "authentic" ranges and their "authentic" olive drab looked different than Tamiya's version of the same colour.

    People who base the "authenticy" of a colour on photographs must be young or have a short memory. As old people (like us) still know that Fuij-film makes blue-ish pictures, AGFA film makes orange-ish pictures and Kodak often looks yellow/brown-ish (and what about Ilford?). But today you have to explain that there was actually already an analogue camera, before the mobile phone was invented.

    I love to do research on colours and in most cases I like the discussions, but personally I don't see any reason to try to convince somebody, who doesn't want to be convinced.....

    Cheers,
    Huub

  7. #3582
    Quote Originally Posted by huub vink View Post
    ...... and what about Ilford? .....

    Cheers,
    Huub
    It is in Essex, it doesn't count!

    Ah, the 'good' old days of Humbrol paints. The downhill slide to the dread authenticity started, for me at least, between the covers of Airfix Magazine where the authors would provide you with their take based on mixes of Humbrol. Then, as you say, Humbrol went "Authentic" in no small part because of Tamiya, then we had Compucolor, some people swearing by acrylics .....

    The Scalemates website lists over 100 different brands - some long gone, some current - with manufacturers having separate ranges for aircraft, vehicle, railway and nautical modelling. Not one of whom has ever attempted this particular shade, so we're still at the Airfix Magazine "mix it up" stage. Personally these days I mainly use the Xtracolor range (the spiritual successor to Compucolor) although I did pick up a few Humbrol basics on a recent visit to the Hornby Visitors Centre.
    Andy

  8. #3583
    SOH-CM-2023 Mick's Avatar
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    Aside from the actual authenticity of colors, don't forget the dreaded phenomenon of scale effect. I tried to work around it for decades of plastic modeling and now I see it in digital modeling. In short, a small paint chip looks much darker to the eye than the exact same color on a full sized airplane. And a 1/72 scale model is much closer in size to a paint chip than to a real aircraft. For example, if you see a real plane in American olive drab it looks, well, like olive drab. But if you look at a little paint chip it looks almost black. Likewise, if you see an airplane in US Navy dark sea blue it looks dark blue, but a paint chip of that color looks virtually black. If you paint a 1/72 scale model in authentic olive drab or dark sea blue it will look much too dark to the eye, very close to that little authentic paint chip but not at all like the real plane. Scale effect doesn't seem to be as strong on a digital model on a computer screen but it's there and can give you fits trying to replicate a color, especially a dark color.

  9. #3584
    Senior Administrator huub vink's Avatar
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    You are absolutely right Mick! And even in my repaints I add some layers to get the saturation a bit lower and to tone down the colours a bit.

    (I hope this is understandable English...)

    Cheers,
    Huub

  10. #3585
    Senior Administrator huub vink's Avatar
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    And one of the prototypes from the prime fighter of "the other side"!



    Cheers,
    Huub

  11. #3586
    Senior Administrator huub vink's Avatar
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    To avoid discussions

    In the last week I have done a lot of reading about the colour(s) of the Spitfire prototype. I came to the conclusion that perhaps nobody knows, and even if one knows, the rest won't listen......

    So to avoid discussion I decided put several colours in the package, so everybody can pick his or her's favourite.

    The light blue, which was my original thought. Often mentioned and sky blue was a BS381 standard pre-war colour.



    Grey blue, my personal favourite. French grey is often described as grey paint with some blue added. So that is more or less what this colour is based on.



    A sort of sky-ish. Sky or close to sky, was also mentioned often and close to the Federal Standard colour FS35414. And that is what this colour is based on.



    French grey, most colours which pop-up when you Google on "French-grey" look a bit brownish. I like this shade of brown-ish grey best.



    As repainting older AH models is always a sort of struggle, I will ask a friend to have a look at them before I upload them.

    Cheers,
    Huub

  12. #3587
    Quote Originally Posted by huub vink View Post
    I came to the conclusion that perhaps nobody knows, and even if one knows, the rest won't listen......
    Anyway, that's how we see most real older aircaft: in b/w!



    Bernard
    Last edited by leuen; September 23rd, 2023 at 11:12.

  13. #3588
    Senior Administrator huub vink's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leuen View Post
    Anyway, that's how we see most real older aircaft: in b/w!



    Bernard
    That is most probably the reason why there are so many discussions.

    Cheers,
    Huub

  14. #3589
    Senior Administrator huub vink's Avatar
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    Which one is your favourite?

    During the process of repainting I really started to love the AH Spitfire.



    It makes the A2A one look a bit cartoonish in my personal opinion.




    BTW the Cosford Spitfire repaint is not finished yet.

    Cheers,
    Huub

  15. #3590
    Very nice huub. Iíve really enjoyed you enjoying and showing off your spits, wonderful painting sir.

    the a2a and ah, are they both Mk1s?
    Alex

    Brisbane, Australia

  16. #3591
    i only have the A2A model, which im very fond of, but i can see your point regarding the AH version, esp in the canopy and rear fuselage.
    Is the model in your screens, the one included in the AH/Just Flight pack. Ive got about £10 in reward points in Just Flight but i still cant make up my mind.. I like the model's but its let down by not very inspiring skins, and there's not many repaints out there. Also, its still about £25, which for FS9 , is quite pricey payware these days.

  17. #3592
    Ian , You can still download the fully functioning AH Demo,
    As Huub mentioned earlier


    https://www.justflight.com/product/spitfire-download


    Ttfn

    Pete

  18. #3593
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    How does the real air spitfire compare?Sean

  19. #3594
    Quote Originally Posted by jackryan172 View Post
    How does the real air spitfire compare?Sean
    It is a thing of beauty, but you have to fly it with care. Click image for larger version. 

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    Andy

  20. #3595
    Senior Administrator huub vink's Avatar
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    The Realair Spitfire is the best one in my opinion. Great looks, flies really nice and has failure programmed. It is definitely not hard to break the engine. And it came with lovely free scenery.

    However it comes in just one flavour. The Mk.XIV. So when you want to fly early models (like me) or the Mk.IX work horse you need to look somewhere else.

    Cheers,
    Huub

  21. #3596
    Senior Administrator huub vink's Avatar
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    Very nice huub. Iíve really enjoyed you enjoying and showing off your spits, wonderful painting sir.

    the a2a and ah, are they both Mk1s?
    Yes, both models are the Mk.Ia with the three bladed propeller and the bubble type canopy. Among other less visible differences, the Mk.I had a fixed two blade wooden propeller and flat canopy.

    Cheers,
    Huub

  22. #3597
    Senior Administrator huub vink's Avatar
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    Very nice huub. Iíve really enjoyed you enjoying and showing off your spits, wonderful painting sir.

    the a2a and ah, are they both Mk1s?
    Yes, both models in the screenshots represent the Mk.Ia with the three bladed propeller and the bubble type canopy. Among other less visible differences (like the engine), the Mk.I had a fixed two blade wooden propeller and flat canopy.

    Cheers,
    Huub

  23. #3598
    AH Demo Spit MkIa at Duxford.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Spit MkIa.png  
    Do not fear the enemy, for they can take only your life. Fear the media far more, for they will destroy your honour.

  24. #3599
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    I went ahead and bought the Spitfire package from just flight. Its a nice package, although the prop blades seem to be oversized. Need to fly them more Sean

  25. #3600
    Senior Administrator huub vink's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackryan172 View Post
    I went ahead and bought the Spitfire package from just flight. Its a nice package, although the prop blades seem to be oversized. Need to fly them more Sean
    So far I had never noticed and I'm not sure Sean, the three bladed propeller on a Spitfire is actually quite large. The wide blade Rotol propeller mounted on the Spitfire early 1940 had a diameter of 10 ft and 9 inches (3.27 m).

    This page contains some nice pictures: https://plane-crazy.k-hosting.co.uk/...e/spitfire.htm



    I can remember the scenes in the movie "the Battle of Britain", in which the Spitfires take of and you can see the tip of the propeller is nearly hitting the ground.

    Cheers,
    Huub

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