OMG It FLOATS!!... ::lol::

[warchild]

its in the water, and we can now move forward with it.. Still lots n lots to do.. But wanted to share.. Kinda proud and all ( though i shouldnt be really ) Big thanks to Paul Dominque for helping me learn to use the software..

Attachment 91448

Attachment 91449

Attachment 91450

[Ian Warren]

Wow .. Pam , that is a seriously good looking E-boat <input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><input jscode="leoInternalChangeDone()" onclick="if(typeof(jsCall)=='function'){jsCall();} else{setTimeout('jsCall()',500);}" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">

[clmooring]

i am really looking forward to this!

[pilottj]

What?! No bikini clad supermodels sunbathing on the deck?

Looks really great Pam:salute:

[paiken]

I kind of liked the rainbow version you posted earlier.

[Howellerman]

Okay, I admit it - the "bikini" in the last comment drew me to this post.

That being said, that is REALLY COOL! I can only imagine the complexity of modeling the bridge and functions on such a craft. Very nice!

[mmann]

Pam, were you able to resolve the issue you had getting P3D to show the same model as FSX?

Never mind, I just saw your post at FSDeveloper.

[warchild]

Pam, were you able to resolve the issue you had getting P3D to show the same model as FSX?

Never mind, I just saw your post at FSDeveloper.

yeahhhh.. it didnt help that i have that second install of P3D.. havent used it in a long time and forgot it was there..

[warchild]

Thanks for the kind words folks.. It feels good to be honest. Being new to this i'm scaired ****less, and it really helps hearing the feedback.. Bear with me. You know i'll be doing my absolute best. ..

[mmann]

Pam, I would say live and learn, except at my age it's more like live and forget.

I'm glad you got it sorted and the model looks great! :salute:

[Francois]

Looking great already !!!

[jankees]

I agree with Francois, looking very good!

[Roger]

Excellent Pam!

[stovall]

Fantastic model Pam, can't wait to get my hands on it. Brings back memories of the fun we had with the PT boats. Keep us posted and thanks.

[warchild]

Okay, I admit it - the "bikini" in the last comment drew me to this post.

That being said, that is REALLY COOL! I can only imagine the complexity of modeling the bridge and functions on such a craft. Very nice!

Yeahhh.. I've been pondering my plan of attack for making the VC for about three days now. its a Bi-Level bridge with a pilot at the wheel down inside and the captain and officers directly above on the flying bridge ( is that the correct term? ). The big question is whether or not the optical rang finder is tied into the steering mechanism or not. heh. more research ::lol:; the biggest issue i see model wise is down inside. Th pilot cant see anything. He's got just this tiny little window in front of him and thats it. He cant see anything except whatever that big white post is and the forward gunner out of it. I caant imagine how they could have guided it into a slip or pull alongside another boat without having some way f steering it up on top. As always. if someone knows anything about this, i would be very grateful to learn it..

[MCDesigns]

Stumbled on these, might be good for references
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gall.../ep-index.html
http://www.der-lustige-modellbauer.c...00-1-72-fertig
http://www.janelmer.com/gallery/schnellboot_5.htm


I see what you mean about limited view from the sites i posted. personally i would rather be the view of the guy above calling out torpedo shots, LOL.

Looking good, keep at it!!!

[warchild]

Stumbled on these, might be good for references
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gall.../ep-index.html
http://www.der-lustige-modellbauer.c...00-1-72-fertig
http://www.janelmer.com/gallery/schnellboot_5.htm


I see what you mean about limited view from the sites i posted. personally i would rather be the view of the guy above calling out torpedo shots, LOL.

Looking good, keep at it!!!

Those sites are awesome. Thank you.. Some good material there for repainters as well.
Personally, I'd rather be on the bridge as well intead of in the wheel house and a statement was made in the prisoner reports after operation Tiger, that the steering mechanism was very expensive to produce. The question obviously arises: why would they mention the expense of the steering if it was basically the same as any other boat?? I become more and more certain that the steering mechanism is somehow tied into the optical range finder on the bridge but i havent found anything that comes straight out and says it.. If that mechanism is tied to the optical rangefinder, I can add the correct animations for steering to be controlled from the bridge. But i need more proof.. ..

[Milton Shupe]

Absolutely beautiful work Pam

[fliger747]

Just a WAG about the steering? Possibly an autopilot to maintain course or track as these boats operated a lot at night and bad weather for maximum effectiveness. It may be the low somewhat protected steering position was selected for maximum protection in CQB. Many warships of the era relayed helm orders to a remote enclosed piloting position.

Great effort!


T

[srgalahad]

"Rather than conning from the bridge, the commander passed orders to the wheelhouse through a flexible voice pipe. "
http://www.collectrussia.com/sBoot/bridgetube.jpg

Source here:
http://www.prinzeugen.com/DesignManufacture.htm
http://www.prinzeugen.com/SBOATIND.htm

"A cockpit was set into the wheelhouse roof, placing the commander in a central position with better visibility and shelter. Although they were wonderful sea-boats, they were notoriously “wet” and every scrap of shelter was welcome! From there, he could speak through portholes directly to the wheelhouse forward and navigator aft. His "instrument panel" consisted of glass windows through which he could observe a compass and the wheelhouse interior."
http://www.bmpt.org.uk/boats/S130/index4.htm

Actually, the helmsman's windows were a decent size considering he just steered on orders from "above"
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bud_scotland/8176751934/http://www.s-boot.net/sboats-kriegsmarine-types.html

The "binocular setup" in the bridge was the torpedo-aiming systembut it seemed the basic tactic was still a compensated "point (the Boat) and shoot

[trowelmaster]

thank's for coming through with that info, I was trying to get some sleep but was restless for an answer and was going to start some research. thank's again !

[warchild]

"Rather than conning from the bridge, the commander passed orders to the wheelhouse through a flexible voice pipe. "
http://www.collectrussia.com/sBoot/bridgetube.jpg

Source here:
http://www.prinzeugen.com/DesignManufacture.htm
http://www.prinzeugen.com/SBOATIND.htm

"A cockpit was set into the wheelhouse roof, placing the commander in a central position with better visibility and shelter. Although they were wonderful sea-boats, they were notoriously “wet” and every scrap of shelter was welcome! From there, he could speak through portholes directly to the wheelhouse forward and navigator aft. His "instrument panel" consisted of glass windows through which he could observe a compass and the wheelhouse interior."
http://www.bmpt.org.uk/boats/S130/index4.htm

Actually, the helmsman's windows were a decent size considering he just steered on orders from "above"
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bud_scotland/8176751934/http://www.s-boot.net/sboats-kriegsmarine-types.html

The "binocular setup" in the bridge was the torpedo-aiming system but it seemed the basic tactic was still a compensated "point (the Boat) and shoot

Your almost 100% exactly correct, and the only place you are incorrect is that the voice tubes were used on the S-20 class which was the first schnellboot class to have the Captain standing above the wheelhouse behind a spray screen. The S-100 class didnt have the voice tube as the cockpit was directly above and behind the wheelhouse/pilot and the captain could communicate directly without tubes.
the windows in that picture look bigger than they are. Ive been down inside that wheel house and believe me, theyre tiny. I may pop open the secondary windows on either side of the forward looking window as they'll help, but its still a tiny field of view and i'd hate to try and dock one of these things from down there ::LOL::..
The Optical rangefinder was actually quite complex. one lens place a right side up image in the eye piece and the other placed an upside down image in the other eyepiece. when the two images lined up, you had your range. kind of like an old nikon viewfinder. A statement was made by a veteran schnellboot officer on a documentary i watched about the aiming being very precise and requiring a lot of effort. For some reason i cant fathom, it reminded me of the american bombsights where the bombardier took control of the plane to exactly position it for the drop. I've spent two days now driving the boat like it was a torpedo aiming on ai traffic and horrible as i am, it was still pretty apparent that aiming the torps from a half mile out is not easy to do.. so far i havent hit anything..

The windows mentioned for the captain to communicate with the pilot were under hinged metal caps on either side of the rangefinder/compass. They're shown pretty well in the below image.

The problem i need to resolve is, the wheelhouse is anything but optimal for steering the ship. Your head is a foot above deck level and that deck extends thirty feet in front of you.. it's really horrid. So, yeahh, i'll be building the wheelhouse/VC corectly, but frankly, i'm hoping like hell i can find some scrap of information that will give me what i need to make the boat stearable from the cockpit..

Attachment 91503

The S-20 class

Attachment 91505

I dont know why the below picture is here. I delet3ed it and including it in the S-20 lineup is incorrect as its the S-151. Please forgive me for my error..
Pam

[warchild]

Just a WAG about the steering? Possibly an autopilot to maintain course or track as these boats operated a lot at night and bad weather for maximum effectiveness. It may be the low somewhat protected steering position was selected for maximum protection in CQB. Many warships of the era relayed helm orders to a remote enclosed piloting position.

Great effort!


T

I'd like to learn more about those steering positions. It makes sense and with larger craft, I can even understand docking as a tug will dock you, but in a small boat like the schnellboot's you were on your own, and even pulling into a slip at Cherbourgh could be a real challenge. Still, is looking more and more likely that thats exactly what happened in the S-100 class. and your absolutely correct about why they lowred the wheelhouse, and covered it in armor as well..

[srgalahad]

Your almost 100% exactly correct, and the only place you are incorrect is that the voice tubes were used on the S-20 class which was the first schnellboot class to have the Captain standing above the wheelhouse behind a spray screen. The S-100 class didnt have the voice tube as the cockpit was directly above and behind the wheelhouse/pilot and the captain could communicate directly without tubes.
the windows in that picture look bigger than they are. Ive been down inside that wheel house and believe me, theyre tiny. I may pop open the secondary windows on either side of the forward looking window as they'll help, but its still a tiny field of view and i'd hate to try and dock one of these things from down there ::LOL::..

The windows mentioned for the captain to communicate with the pilot were under hinged metal caps on either side of the rangefinder/compass. They're shown pretty well in the below image.

Pam, I agree with the chronology, but... while the sprachrohr (speaking tube) was introduced somewhere in the time of the S-20, what I have seen does not indicate that the method was removed in later boats, only that with the windows you mention, it was possible to see and speak directly (as well).

"Improvements were made to the boat's superstructure. On early boats, the commander stood outside on the deck behind a spray shield. Behind him in the wheelhouse stood the helmsman, navigator, radio operator and engine telegraphist. The commander communicated his orders through flexible voice tubes, or via a seaman equipped with an headset intercom. The S-26 class (1940) instituted a 34.9m hull and several design changes. The torpedo tubes were enclosed in a decked-over forecastle, increasing interior space and reserve buoyancy. A cockpit was set into the wheelhouse roof, placing the commander in a centralized position with better visibility and shelter. From there, he could speak through portholes directly to the wheelhouse foward and navigator aft. His "instrument panel" consisted of glass windows through which he could observe a compass and the wheelhouse interior. (Note that there was no steering wheel in the cockpit.) Starting with S-30 (1939) several boats were built with a slightly smaller hull, 32.7m, and with the old style wheelhouse. The S-38 class was a continuation of the S-26 class with simplified ventilators and other minor changes.

Experimentation with S-67 (1942) led to a design for a partially armor plated cupola, the so-called Kalotte (skull cap), over the bridge. The added armor was a countermeasure to the growing firepower of British escort craft encountered in the English channel. This led to an armored bridge variant of the S-38 class, the S-38b which was delivered from the boatyards with the armor already in place. Shortly thereafter, the S-100 class (1943) was designed from the start to incorporate the Kalotte and additional armament..."


In fact, examination of the photos shows the sprachrohr as (probably rubberized, corrugated) tubes with a variety of mouth-pieces:
Compare the one I referenced above being used by the Commander with the tubes shown in these photos:
Attachment 91523 Attachment 91524 Attachment 91525

The middle photo of a late-war boat shows the tubes as have been modeled (in the stowed position) in your pic below. The tube would be more efficient than yelling through a port on a noisy boat with wind whipping everything away in the same way a Gosport tube (same idea) worked in open biplanes. Three tubes are appropriate as shown: 1. Wheelman; 2. Navigator on the starboard side; 3. torpedo officer? engine room as backup to the telegraph? on the port side. (just guessing at layout)

The problem i need to resolve is, the wheelhouse is anything but optimal for steering the ship. Your head is a foot above deck level and that deck extends thirty feet in front of you.. it's really horrid. So, yeahh, i'll be building the wheelhouse/VC corectly, but frankly, i'm hoping like hell i can find some scrap of information that will give me what i need to make the boat stearable from the cockpit..

Attachment 91503

Think of it as a "system": the viewpoint is the eyes of the Commander on the bridge. Those signals get sent to the 'steering computer' (his brain). Actions are then transmitted via tube to a voice-activated 'steering gear' (seaman standing below holding wheel and connected to throttles and rudder).
keep it simple -- the eyepoint is on the bridge, the sprachrorh is replaced by a bundle of nerves running from the sim 'pilot' brain down his arm to the 'wheelhouse' (joystick & throttle) I doubt that anyone would practically want to try to steer by using a mouse-over on an animated VC wheel (and the 'wheelman' likely had no command authority at all but simply acted on orders from above) that emulates the real system. Since the S-100 had a second/repeater compass on the bridge as shown it's no problem to get course information anyway (this may have been linked optically/electronically to the aiming system when needed)... Also, on the boats which had radar installed, this short-range system would likely only have a display belowdecks in the wheelhouse. These were, in no way, a single-pilot operation

Unlike the 'traditional' paradigm of a single pilot in front of all controls with direct connection and input, your analogy of the bombardier is closer to the truth and requires either a "two pilot" cockpit in FSX or a work-around that will annoy the various 'rivet counters' -- a pop-up panel emulating the below-deck steering station controls (raising the ire of those who decry pop-ups) or a small (and visually/technically incorrect) discrete wheel/throttle combo to be built into the bridge-deck VC. Don't forget that engine management and firing systems on the real-life S-boot were remote, voice-activated as well - ie commands were transmitted to crew in the engine room and at the guns, torpedo tubes and depthcharge/mine racks by voice/intercom/hand signals so the same applies in simulation. Yes, you can emulate it all with 'shared cockpit' systems but I doubt there are many who would want to run an FSX S-boot this way very often.

[trowelmaster]

@ srgalahad :It' perfect for Underway/NavalEngagement...!:mixedsmi: