Oshkosh being charged for air traffic control

[CWOJackson]

Even though general aviation already pays heavy fees that cover the expense of air traffic control, the FAA is insisting on another half million dollars for the air show...

http://www.aero-news.net/AnnTicker.c...0-da697954a76d

[Willy]

I'm beginning to think that the government is against air shows.

[Terry]

I'm beginning to think that the government is against air shows.

It's become quite clear that they are against anything they don't control completly.

[Dangerousdave26]

I got an email today from Sun n Fun here is a small excerpt.

Thanks to the support of the State of Florida through the “Florida Restaurant and Lodging Association”, and “Visit Florida”, the Lakeland Linder Airport, and the City of Lakeland, we are able to pay the FAA’s $284,500 bill for controllers as required by Sequestration.

Everyone is going to be forking it over.

[Dain Arns]

I got an email today from Sun n Fun here is a small excerpt.



Everyone is going to be forking it over.

How correct. Everyone is getting forked these days...

[CWOJackson]

It might not be so bad if General Aviation wasn't already paying for air traffic controllers.

[beana51]

This Current Government Is Not Friendly To General Aviation...Many in Government are Private Pilots and do not approve...

Congress questions $500,000 controller bill issued to EAA by FAA
Members of Congress questioned whether the Federal Aviation Administration had the authority to issue a $500,000 bill to the Experimental Aircraft Association for air traffic controllers at AirVenture. "Making a change of this sort, to begin charging fees, after 60 years of not doing it, I think they don't have the authority to do it without congressional action," said Rep. Tom Petri, R-Wis. The Reporter (Fond Du Lac, Wis.) (6/6)

[mgchrist5]

It's become quite clear that they are against anything they don't control completly.

Very very true. I'll never understand why the Feds want to control everything - since they #$%& up everything they touch.

[Terry]

What it comes down to is punishing the public for the sequester. This is just one of many examples over the last couple months.

[Ripcord13]

Be careful people you know that they are reading your posts.

[rdaniell]

Be careful people you know that they are reading your posts.

With the latest revelations about government snooping, that just may be true rather than funny.

RD

[robert41]

Now I thought the air traffic controllers at Oshkosh Air Venture were volunteers.

[srgalahad]

Now I thought the air traffic controllers at Oshkosh Air Venture were volunteers.

If one deals with vague statements or slanted reporting (depending on who is trying to get a message out) that is a common confusion. This is a link to the current item on the EAA website about the senatorial letter of last week: http://www.eaa.org/news/2013/2013-06...H-ATC-fees.asp

Among the comments added by readers is this:
"It's amazing all these years I was told the Pink shirts were volunteers! What a kick in the pants for the real volunteers that work making this a great event. I feel it's a honor to be part of this. Here these controllers are getting paid... How sad, here is the story:

The controllers volunteer for the assignment within the FAA. The supervisors then determine the top controllers among those volunteers and send them to Oshkosh. They do receive their salary, lodging, per diem and all the other items that are provided or required as part of the controllers’ contract."
There are always more who volunteer than are needed so there is a year-over-year rotation to work this unique environment. Experience is only one of the selection criteria and past policy has been that any controller can only work OSH during Air Venture 6 times in a career. Of course it's exciting, fun and stressful, but the controllers also often rearrange their lives like everyone else to make the days available if they are selected.

To go on with the discussion, the tower at OSH has a 'normal' compliment of (I'm guessing from experience) 6-9 controllers who cover 2-4 shifts per day over the 14-16 hours the tower is open (including those on days off). During Air Venture this number is increased by (specific numbers lacking but commonly) 60+ ADDITIONAL controllers to staff 6-8 or more positions for the full 14-16 hours per day. Since they are regular controllers already employed, their salaries are already part of a normal budget in their home unit, however, their time at OSH might incur limited overtime at the home unit. As some would like to suggest, the option to do the work "free" as a "volunteer" is not possible - if for no other reason than the liability issue, but they are in fact staffing an FAA facility, providing (more than) normal ATC service.

However, what is not "normal" are the costs involved in transporting, housing, feeding 60+ individuals for between 7 and 12 days (there is mandatory training/qualification at every 'new' unit - just like a pilot transitioning to a new type). Most of you with a military background know that there are rules covering TDY and private industry generally has similar rules for "work in travel status". THIS is the part that the FAA is asking recover, not the salaries.

Whatever the term, in most countries something like Air Venture is considered a "Special Event" and is not part of the normal budgetary flow. In the past, the FAA has apparently just covered the costs as - call it what you will - good PR, 'public service', promotion of aviation. Now everyone with access to a computer is blogging, commenting, emailing about any 'excessive' expenditure and guess what - the FAA said "well, we do this to support an abnormal, private event so abnormal costs should be recovered."

We can all find dozens of reasons why OSH & Air Venture is a valuable event so I won't bother with a list. However, boiled down to the facts, and taking away personal desires or opinions, the issue is not a lot different than what police departments handle as requests for extra-duty officers for sporting events like the Super Bowl, the Oscars, conventions etc. and almost all of those are covered on a, usually not mentioned, "cost recovery basis". Given the current economy I'd bet that among those who might complain about the FAA proving a freebie to the EAA/AV would be airlines who have to cut flights when towers are understaffed or flow controls are initiated at undermanned Centers; municipalities who lose service because the tower got closed; and so on. Maybe the critical question is "who allowed the FAA to fund this in past years?" It may also be interesting to see the look on Rep. Petri's faces IF he finds out that the FAA has had the power to charge for services at special events but has not done so for "60 years". I don't know about the FAA, but similar rules exist elsewhere and are often charged or not, depending on the economic & political tides.

Note that the actual cost items have not been disclosed, just large, exciting, rousing overall amounts. As Dave pointed out earlier, Sun'n'Fun was able to negotiate/share funding from sponsors. With a few weeks to go before the show starts, this is more about posturing and yes, politics than what may be the end result but it has done its job of getting the rants going.

[Kiwikat]

To go on with the discussion, the tower at OSH has a 'normal' compliment of (I'm guessing from experience) 6-9 controllers who cover 2-4 shifts per day over the 14-16 hours the tower is open (including those on days off).

I sure hope OSH doesn't have 6-9 controllers, that would be a COMPLETE waste of tax dollars. There is zero commercial traffic there and not even that much GA traffic. Really the only thing at the airport nowadays is the aviation extension of Fox Valley Technical College and a couple manufacturers (Basler and I think there's another smaller company too). There's no reason besides Airventure to even have a control tower there. It absolutely baffles me that they spent the money to build a new tower.

It may not be a popular opinion but I think EAA should have to pay for it. They are the only reason the tower exists to begin with. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Airventure moved out from Wittman Field and closer to a larger metropolitan area like it was before.

I don't know if I am even going to go to Airventure this year. It is expensive and every year it gets less and less impressive. Fewer planes, more vendors (many not even aviation related), and overall staleness. I've been to it every year since I was like 6 or 7. Ever since 9/11 it just hasn't been the same.

[robert41]

If one deals with vague statements or slanted reporting (depending on who is trying to get a message out) that is a common confusion. This is a link to the current item on the EAA website about the senatorial letter of last week: http://www.eaa.org/news/2013/2013-06...H-ATC-fees.asp

Among the comments added by readers is this:
"It's amazing all these years I was told the Pink shirts were volunteers! What a kick in the pants for the real volunteers that work making this a great event. I feel it's a honor to be part of this. Here these controllers are getting paid... How sad, here is the story:

The controllers volunteer for the assignment within the FAA. The supervisors then determine the top controllers among those volunteers and send them to Oshkosh. They do receive their salary, lodging, per diem and all the other items that are provided or required as part of the controllers’ contract."
There are always more who volunteer than are needed so there is a year-over-year rotation to work this unique environment. Experience is only one of the selection criteria and past policy has been that any controller can only work OSH during Air Venture 6 times in a career. Of course it's exciting, fun and stressful, but the controllers also often rearrange their lives like everyone else to make the days available if they are selected.

To go on with the discussion, the tower at OSH has a 'normal' compliment of (I'm guessing from experience) 6-9 controllers who cover 2-4 shifts per day over the 14-16 hours the tower is open (including those on days off). During Air Venture this number is increased by (specific numbers lacking but commonly) 60+ ADDITIONAL controllers to staff 6-8 or more positions for the full 14-16 hours per day. Since they are regular controllers already employed, their salaries are already part of a normal budget in their home unit, however, their time at OSH might incur limited overtime at the home unit. As some would like to suggest, the option to do the work "free" as a "volunteer" is not possible - if for no other reason than the liability issue, but they are in fact staffing an FAA facility, providing (more than) normal ATC service.

However, what is not "normal" are the costs involved in transporting, housing, feeding 60+ individuals for between 7 and 12 days (there is mandatory training/qualification at every 'new' unit - just like a pilot transitioning to a new type). Most of you with a military background know that there are rules covering TDY and private industry generally has similar rules for "work in travel status". THIS is the part that the FAA is asking recover, not the salaries.

Whatever the term, in most countries something like Air Venture is considered a "Special Event" and is not part of the normal budgetary flow. In the past, the FAA has apparently just covered the costs as - call it what you will - good PR, 'public service', promotion of aviation. Now everyone with access to a computer is blogging, commenting, emailing about any 'excessive' expenditure and guess what - the FAA said "well, we do this to support an abnormal, private event so abnormal costs should be recovered."

We can all find dozens of reasons why OSH & Air Venture is a valuable event so I won't bother with a list. However, boiled down to the facts, and taking away personal desires or opinions, the issue is not a lot different than what police departments handle as requests for extra-duty officers for sporting events like the Super Bowl, the Oscars, conventions etc. and almost all of those are covered on a, usually not mentioned, "cost recovery basis". Given the current economy I'd bet that among those who might complain about the FAA proving a freebie to the EAA/AV would be airlines who have to cut flights when towers are understaffed or flow controls are initiated at undermanned Centers; municipalities who lose service because the tower got closed; and so on. Maybe the critical question is "who allowed the FAA to fund this in past years?" It may also be interesting to see the look on Rep. Petri's faces IF he finds out that the FAA has had the power to charge for services at special events but has not done so for "60 years". I don't know about the FAA, but similar rules exist elsewhere and are often charged or not, depending on the economic & political tides.

Note that the actual cost items have not been disclosed, just large, exciting, rousing overall amounts. As Dave pointed out earlier, Sun'n'Fun was able to negotiate/share funding from sponsors. With a few weeks to go before the show starts, this is more about posturing and yes, politics than what may be the end result but it has done its job of getting the rants going.

Ah, now that puts things into perspective. Volunteer means to volunteer to work at EAA.

[StormILM]

Sorry, perhaps this is "political" in a place where we keep politics out but the policies of different offices/depts within out govt haven't been especially aviation/or general aviation friendly for some time. There's a lot of boneheaded politics going on behind closed doors that mark my word will spell the end of aviation as we know it within a generation or so.

My solution to this, seriously look into bringing in volunteer off duty ATC's from the Military to do the event and tell the FAA to STUFF IT. Maybe that's a pipe dream so to speak but why not turn the tables?