Clawson's SB2U joint conversion update

[kelticheart]

A good day to everbody!

A couple of months ago I got a request from our good Fibber if I could paint the propeller blades and replace the prop blurred disc on Paul Clawson's Vought SB2U Vindicator, an old conversion from a FS2002 model that can be found over at Simviation.

That model conversion is so old I couldn't do anything to it, until a discovered there's another conversion carried out by The Virtual Navy guys, available here. The "newer" VN model has a nicer 3d engine and a separate prop disc texture file, but, being a beta release, there are some heavy issues about the texture mappings.

As you can see below, I already proceeded to paint an alternative prop disc and I was able to adapt the historical #6 aircraft skin of the Marine Scout squadron which gallantly fought from Midway on June 4th, 1942. This livery belongs to the older Simviation's conversion and fits the pre-war model converted by the VN team, so it's possible to have the best of both conversions. Although this aircraft model is indeed jurassic, I think it remains a "must have", being an historical part of the Battle of Midway, but......at this point start the texturing problems.

Please, watch closely the attached screenie:

1. There are two models in VN's conversions and the Midway model does not take the historical skin, but on the prewar model the solid fuselage area between the cockpit and the rear gunner canopy remains stubbornly untextured.
2. The prop disc is not entirely transparent and hides some aircraft details, like the pilot/rear gunner, the swing rack and the payload hanging from it.
3. 3d engine, prop blades, spinner, undercarriage legs, inner wing structure (visible when the wings are folded), tail wheel assembly and arrestor hook are untextured.

Since I remember from previous SOH cooperation conversions there are several skilled SOH members who can put their hands successfully into an mdl file, why don't we bring this historical bird up-to-current-standards, obviously as much as we can?

I can offer prop discs, adapted Midway historical skin and updated dp with exhaust effects and DBolt's US enhanced weapons.

The mdl to work with is the VN's USS Ranger pre-war model, which takes the previous conversion historical livery and has the same animation features as their Midway model. Why not work on the latter model? Because texture mappings are entirely different for the historical Midway skin and the provided livery, which also appears belonging to a latter war period.

Cheers!
KH :ernae:

[oldwheat]

Would it be better to just repaint the Midway model? Clawson's models are usually simple to work with.

[Allen]

If some can get permission. Run the model in Model Converter X than port it to gMax.

[kelticheart]

Would it be better to just repaint the Midway model? Clawson's models are usually simple to work with.

Hi OW!

Well, we have a skin already, it would save some work. I noticed the Midway model texture mappings are entirely different.

If some can get permission. Run the model in Model Converter X than port it to gMax.

Excellent idea Allen! The Simviation conversion has the original readme by Paul Clawson, I think there is his e-mail address in there. I'm at work now, so I can't give it to you.

Cheers!
KH :ernae:

[UncleTgt]

Or ask Steve Seybolt about his more recent CFS3 model....

[oldwheat]

Hi OW!

Well, we have a skin already, it would save some work. I noticed the Midway model texture mappings are entirely different.



Excellent idea Allen! The Simviation conversion has the original readme by Paul Clawson, I think there is his e-mail address in there. I'm at work now, so I can't give it to you.

Cheers!
KH :ernae:

PuttPutt (Clawson) is as a rule very cooperative with permissions. There are a number of his models that could use work with texture mapping - (Grumman Goblin, etc).

His Email is= p.pandj@verizon.net

[Allen]

oldwheat how did the Ki-30 work for you?

[oldwheat]

It's doing great! I'll send an Email shortly. I'm getting a few loose ends tied up pre-upload.

[Allen]

Do you want/need the gMax source?

[oldwheat]

Yes, I don't know squat about Gmax but it would be good to have it for possible future use.

[kelticheart]

Hi folks!

I am done with the weapon aspect of the dp file. I replaced payloads, added Thicko's D4Y wing pylons because they are nicely detailed and nicely generic, and fixed muzzle flashes positioning for both the rear gunner and the single wing gun. I'll post a picture or two later during the day. Next on the list are the exhaust effects.

Judging from the weapon array and the generic dp info, I think it was used the stock SBD dp file, probably the one created by Pen32Win for his SBD-2, Midway project. I corrected some of it, also assigning the aircraft class as a #3, a dive bomber. This should help AI behaviour, I will look also into the Flight Model, as the "Vibrator" was quite different than the SBD Dauntless.

Does anyone know if the Vindicator wing gun was a .30" or a .50" caliber? Can the Dauntless payload layouts be correct for this aircraft?

Cheers!
KH :ernae:

[JapLance]

Long ago I did a DP for this plane, and the loadouts I added were:

1x 1000lb or
1x 500lb or
2x 250lb or
2x 250lb + 1x 50gal droptank

I think I got the info from a Squadron Signal book about the Vindicator, but I'm not 100% sure.

[TARPSBird]

Although this aircraft model is indeed jurassic, I think it remains a "must have", being an historical part of the Battle of Midway, but......at this point start the texturing problems.
Please, watch closely the attached screenie:1. There are two models in VN's conversions and the Midway model does not take the historical skin, but on the prewar model the solid fuselage area between the cockpit and the rear gunner canopy remains stubbornly untextured.

The VN's Midway SB2U borrows a portion of the starboard side fuselage texture to paint the solid "tunnel" between the pilot and gunner (see pics). On the VN pre-war version they apparently decided to leave the tunnel untextured - makes it hard for repaints. I did the Midway #6 repaint of Paul Clawson's original plane and it used the "Vindtrans.bmp" texture for the entire cockpit area. It's in the texture folder but not used. Depending on how much interest there is in further updating the VN SB2U, I wouldn't mind updating the Midway #6 textures.

[kelticheart]

The VN's Midway SB2U borrows a portion of the starboard side fuselage texture to paint the solid "tunnel" between the pilot and gunner (see pics). On the VN pre-war version they apparently decided to leave the tunnel untextured - makes it hard for repaints. I did the Midway #6 repaint of Paul Clawson's original plane and it used the "Vindtrans.bmp" texture for the entire cockpit area. It's in the texture folder but not used. Depending on how much interest there is in further updating the VN SB2U, I wouldn't mind updating the Midway #6 textures.

Hi TARPSBird!

If you could adapt the Midway #6 to VN's Midway model, at this point it would be great. After all, both models were updated with the same animations with folding wing and operating arrestor hook.

VN's Midway skin is not "that" Midway, being a beta release it also looks like a quick 'n dirty job, even one wing upper texture looks offset compared to the other, resulting in two US roundels different from each other.

Long ago I did a DP for this plane, and the loadouts I added were:

1x 1000lb or
1x 500lb or
2x 250lb or
2x 250lb + 1x 50gal droptank

Thank you JapLance!

I'll modify the dp accordingly.


Cheers!
KH :ernae:

[TARPSBird]

On the VN Midway SB2U I see now that the entire cockpit area and also the cowl air intake share the fuselage texture, not just the tunnel. Would be nice if somebody could tweak the mdl file so there could be a dedicated texture for the air entire cockpit, from windscreen to behind the gunner, similar to what Paul Clawson originally had, and map the air intake to the same texture.

[Fibber]

Hi Kelti;
In response to your request, re; armament, I thought I had to at least do something here and found this;

Armament

• Guns:
  
  • 1 × forward firing 0.30 in (7.62 mm) M1919 Browning machine gun in starboard wing (0.50 in (12.7 mm) M2 Browning machine gun in SB2U-3)
  • 1 × .30 in (7.62 mm) machine gun in flexible mount for tail gunner (.50 in (12.7 mm) in SB2U-3)
  
  
• Bombs: 1 × 1,000 lb (454 kg) or 500 lb (227 kg) bomb

This was from Wilkipedia at this addy; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SB2U_Vindicator

Who knew that a prop could lead to this!

Thank You!!!!!!!!:salute:

[TARPSBird]

When I did the dp file for my repaint of Paul's SB2U I gave it two .50 cal in the wings and one for the rear gunner. Sumner Whitten, one of the VMSB-241 pilots who participated in the Midway missions, said their planes (SB2U-3's) had two .50 cal and two .30 cal in the wings, so I guess you could kick up the forward armament a bit and still be historically accurate.

[Fibber]

After readings Tarps post I had a thought (really dangerous for me!). We can't really be guided by what the official specs are for the armaments. Think, field modifications!
In many places a lot of field modifications were done on site. I seem to remember a plane that was not officially supposed to have bombs but some old field guys improvised bomb racks for the planes. Same with the PT boats. Their armament was really amped up in the field by whatever the squids could scrounge up around the bases.

Did some poking around after my post and found this little site;
http://www.microworks.net/pacific/av...vindicator.htm

It seems different models of the plane had different armaments. Just thought I would post it. It also has a 1941 close up picture of the plane in flight. Notice the solid fuselage body behind the pilot.

[TARPSBird]

When you're browsing around for SB2U info you usually come across this interview (see link), some good info. This is the guy I mentioned in my post above...
http://www.historynet.com/interview-...-h-whitten.htm
I read elsewhere that a 500-pounder was the biggest load the flight crews felt comfortable with. Considering the plane was underpowered anyway, a 1,000-pounder made flying the plane a real chore.

[Fibber]

Funny that you should post that! I just finished reading it and was coming back here to post the addy! Eye opener as far as when I referred to field mods in the part of the wide bands being first-aid bandages holding the fabric together! Even in the interview he talks about different arms configs.i

[kelticheart]

Thanks for the info, TARPSbird and Fibber!

From what I just read, it appears that I have to adjust the dp one more time. The Midway version was a SB2U-3, armed with a .50" forward mg and a .30" rear mg. I'll also get rid of the dual 250lbs and the droptank array, even if they look good below. The last pic shows the SB2U equipped with a full disc prop texture.

I will keep the wing rack dual layout, but replace the 250lb with 100lb bombs, and put the 500lb payload as first choice in the selection list [payload.1].

I also started toning down the engine specs in the airfile because this aircraft uses the stock SBD specs which are not realistic. I wish I had all the correct specs like cubic inches per cylinder, intake manifold max pressure, top rpm, boost gain and altitude boost behaviour to get as close as possible to real life.
The two articles I read indicate three uprotected gas tanks, a 253 gal. in the fuselage and a 112 gal. in each wing root, easy to set but I don't know what to change to turn them into not self-sealing tanks.

Cheers!
KH :ernae:

[bearcat241]

easy to set but I don't know what to change to turn them into not self-sealing tanks.

Stef, after you create the actual tank parts in the dp, set their locations and make their lifepoints extremely low. This will make them vulnerable to even minimal gunfire. Check out the stock Zero's tanks for a good reference. It lights up quite well under fire.

Just for future reference, the more lifepoints you apply to a fuel cell, the more it simulates armored and self-sealing characteristics.

[Fibber]

Kelti;
Is this what you need as far as engine specs?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratt_%26_Whitney_R-1535

[Blood_Hawk23]

SB2U-1 (54 original Order)
Engine: 615-kw (825HP) Pratt & Whitney R-1535-96 Twin Wasp Jr
2x.30 mgs (one firing forward and other on trainable mount in rear cockpit)

SB2U-2 (58 Built)
Basicly the same as the SB2U-1

SB2U-3 (First named as the Vindicator)
2x.50 mgs (one firing forward and other on trainable mount in rear cockpit)

both my books confirm this.

I'd go with the specs Fibber gave you. Its not the same model engine but should be roughly the same.

[Allen]

How many version of this are out there? I pulled 2 off of Simv yet the don't quite look like the one of the pics posted.