Just finished a new 2D panel for the Storch..

[gaucho_59]

The picture that is a drawing is way out of proportion... if you notice in the photo, the yoke is rather small... as a matter of fact in the stowed position
does not occupy much space... as to the rudder pedals...in the picture I used as a template... they do show... and the crawl space is rather dark and
not very discernible... (probably because it is a flash picture and the faraway surfaces do not reflect much... and the foregrown.. actually too much reflected light...that's why in this last WIP picture I am
enclosing... I toned down the panel area and put drop shadows in...
Let me know what you think... your criticism is ALWAY constructive and on the mark...

As the Germans say... Tschuess... for now...

This how far I got last nite... I think it is taking shape now... blending shadows, adding small stuff...

[Shessi]

Hi G,
I really hate to do this to you BUT the cockpit you're making/using is from an He112 and not an He115. I thought it was strange that it was quite a bit different??

I only discovered it by hovering over your posted photo of the cockpit which is showing up as He112, I just checked and it IS an He112 and not an He115.

Sorry about that, after all the effort, but not wasted as you can remove the 'W' control yolk and you have a fine He112 cockpit!

Cheers

Shessi

[gaucho_59]

Hi G,
I really hate to do this to you BUT the cockpit you're making/using is from an He112 and not an He115. I thought it was strange that it was quite a bit different??

I only discovered it by hovering over your posted photo of the cockpit which is showing up as He112, I just checked and it IS an He112 and not an He115.

Sorry about that, after all the effort, but not wasted as you can remove the 'W' control yolk and you have a fine He112 cockpit!

Cheers

Shessi

Indeed... it is an He 112... and that IS what I was doing all along... I guess I read your post wrong... and thought you were looking for
a 12... sorry about that... at any rate... I can do a 15... es mach nichts.. like GIs say... mox-nix
No problem... will get on a 115 right away... they appear fairly similar... I think I might have a usable photo of the 115...

[Shessi]

Ha ha ha!

Good job we're still not in a 'Cold War' situation...at a missile silo.....both holding keys!!! .....


Please, no problem at all, no rush as the He115 project is coming along nicely but still to do the VC etc.


Cheers

Shessi

[gaucho_59]

Ha ha ha!

Good job we're still not in a 'Cold War' situation...at a missile silo.....both holding keys!!! .....


Please, no problem at all, no rush as the He115 project is coming along nicely but still to do the VC etc.


Cheers

Shessi

It would be interesting to do the VC textures to match the 2D panel.... I already started on the 115 panel... already did the
outermost panel... working on the background... need to see a pic of the "greenhouse" canopy disposition... and that
famous tunnel... maybe I can work from that gmax like texture amongst the ones you gave me...
by tomorrow I should have a pretty decent WIP pic...

[gaucho_59]

Ha ha ha!

Good job we're still not in a 'Cold War' situation...at a missile silo.....both holding keys!!! .....


Please, no problem at all, no rush as the He115 project is coming along nicely but still to do the VC etc.


Cheers

Shessi

This is how far I have gone today... managed to hum a few bars in the dark about the tunnel...

[gaucho_59]

This is how far I have gone today... managed to hum a few bars in the dark about the tunnel...

Just a few details left now... After all, the yoke can stay.. does not interfere with any gauges...

[Shessi]

G, that is fantastic!

A really great start. TBH I don't think the pilot would be able to see any of the the nose window or outside the ac through this tunnel, which is a shame. A bit of artistic licence is no problem though. A couple of things. That grey ribbed floor at the pilots feet looks like it is more vertical than horizontal, as it should be. I know the pics don't do justice, so it's hard to work out. If you could lower that and maybe use your shade and light effects to simulate light coming into the pilots feet area from the windows?

The panel iself is spot on, and I'm glad the yolk can stay as it's quite a feature, being that odd 'W' shape. One interesting bit of info is the IL2 Cliffs of Dover flightsim, it has an He115 in it and this Youtube video has a walk through of the ac...take a look as it will help to understand the lay out of the cockpit and nose area. Here's the link....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8l9AcJQ4zwg

I'd like to show you some VC, but I'm doing so many other things. And if you can get the 2D panel as close to what it should be, then I'll model the 3D VC to look like that.

Cheers

Shessi

[gaucho_59]

G, that is fantastic!

A really great start. TBH I don't think the pilot would be able to see any of the the nose window or outside the ac through this tunnel, which is a shame. A bit of artistic licence is no problem though. A couple of things. That grey ribbed floor at the pilots feet looks like it is more vertical than horizontal, as it should be. I know the pics don't do justice, so it's hard to work out. If you could lower that and maybe use your shade and light effects to simulate light coming into the pilots feet area from the windows?

The panel iself is spot on, and I'm glad the yolk can stay as it's quite a feature, being that odd 'W' shape. One interesting bit of info is the IL2 Cliffs of Dover flightsim, it has an He115 in it and this Youtube video has a walk through of the ac...take a look as it will help to understand the lay out of the cockpit and nose area. Here's the link....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8l9AcJQ4zwg

I'd like to show you some VC, but I'm doing so many other things. And if you can get the 2D panel as close to what it should be, then I'll model the 3D VC to look like that.

Cheers

Shessi

Saw the video... and it helps some... Indeed the steel ribbed deck needs to be in a latter vanishing point perspective...
Notwithstanding... videos perspective are usually exaggerated and unreal... First observation: the viewpoint in my panel
is not really from the pilots eye but rather from behind his shoulders.. so yes.. the nose cone is visible... as you can see
in a couple of the views from the video.... this is OK... Notwithstanding... here is a vexing view... number 2 in effect shows
an open space or window on the deck??? Flattening the view of the pilot's deck will actually show more of the nose cone...
and in the foreground beyond it... will probably simulate the canvas "cot" that is the bombardier's perch... I think it will
add rather than detract from the "realistc" view... and yes, light can be simulated from directly above by playing with shadows...

[gaucho_59]

G, that is fantastic!

A really great start. TBH I don't think the pilot would be able to see any of the the nose window or outside the ac through this tunnel, which is a shame. A bit of artistic licence is no problem though. A couple of things. That grey ribbed floor at the pilots feet looks like it is more vertical than horizontal, as it should be. I know the pics don't do justice, so it's hard to work out. If you could lower that and maybe use your shade and light effects to simulate light coming into the pilots feet area from the windows?

The panel iself is spot on, and I'm glad the yolk can stay as it's quite a feature, being that odd 'W' shape. One interesting bit of info is the IL2 Cliffs of Dover flightsim, it has an He115 in it and this Youtube video has a walk through of the ac...take a look as it will help to understand the lay out of the cockpit and nose area. Here's the link....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8l9AcJQ4zwg

I'd like to show you some VC, but I'm doing so many other things. And if you can get the 2D panel as close to what it should be, then I'll model the 3D VC to look like that.

Cheers

Shessi

Did some quick rearranging... How's this?

[Shessi]

Looking better and better.

As you were doing all the work, I thought I had better get my finger out! So started the VC, still very rough but I thought it would give an impression as to how it will look. I used your panel pic re-touched to RLM66 dark blue grey.


I think your artistic take on it is very good. I think in reality the pilot would see very little further than his feet, but that would be uninteresting considering all that detail in the nose! So a half-way house seems like a good compromise. And I like the light/shadow in the nose area, gives it depth. You have a real tallent for that!
The problem is the camera viewing angles, in 2D it is just showing a 2D flat image, but with the VC Fs9 uses a fish-eye lens to see more of the cockpit with depth. So they are never going to look exactly the same.

As for the glass panel, the nose did have various viewing panels that could be exposed for the nose crewman and the pilot, especially when torpedo dropping. I don't know if a see-through glass panel would be good or not, I think it might detract?

I hope you don't mind as I've played around with your last posted pic, very rough, but with a few tweaks IMHO that fit.

1) The panel would be straight at the sides, not waisted.

2) I've moved over the RH rudder pedal to amore natural position

3) I've enlarged (X1.5) the yolk, I know it's difficult to see with the pics as they are from different angles and distance, but considering it is more in the foreground than the dials on the panel, it should be a lot bigger (and horizontal). I know it blocks some of the forward view, but maybe make it pop-up? Also that odd thing that is on top of the yolk, it may be a clock and can be folded away, as I've not seen it on other pics.

4) I've increased the area of the canvas/leather pad, whilst reducing the walk-way section.

5) The leather straps on the rudder pedals, and possibly the nose crewmans cushion would be dark brown leather (have modelled it as a dark brown leather on the external model.

And the whole cockpit, panel, walk-way, floor would be a RLM66 dark blue/grey colour or as the inside of the window framing you have.

As I said, no critism intended, just ideas.

Cheers

Shessi

[gaucho_59]

Looking better and better.

As you were doing all the work, I thought I had better get my finger out! So started the VC, still very rough but I thought it would give an impression as to how it will look. I used your panel pic re-touched to RLM66 dark blue grey.


I think your artistic take on it is very good. I think in reality the pilot would see very little further than his feet, but that would be uninteresting considering all that detail in the nose! So a half-way house seems like a good compromise. And I like the light/shadow in the nose area, gives it depth. You have a real tallent for that!
The problem is the camera viewing angles, in 2D it is just showing a 2D flat image, but with the VC Fs9 uses a fish-eye lens to see more of the cockpit with depth. So they are never going to look exactly the same.

As for the glass panel, the nose did have various viewing panels that could be exposed for the nose crewman and the pilot, especially when torpedo dropping. I don't know if a see-through glass panel would be good or not, I think it might detract?

I hope you don't mind as I've played around with your last posted pic, very rough, but with a few tweaks IMHO that fit.

1) The panel would be straight at the sides, not waisted.

2) I've moved over the RH rudder pedal to amore natural position

3) I've enlarged (X1.5) the yolk, I know it's difficult to see with the pics as they are from different angles and distance, but considering it is more in the foreground than the dials on the panel, it should be a lot bigger (and horizontal). I know it blocks some of the forward view, but maybe make it pop-up? Also that odd thing that is on top of the yolk, it may be a clock and can be folded away, as I've not seen it on other pics.

4) I've increased the area of the canvas/leather pad, whilst reducing the walk-way section.

5) The leather straps on the rudder pedals, and possibly the nose crewmans cushion would be dark brown leather (have modelled it as a dark brown leather on the external model.

And the whole cockpit, panel, walk-way, floor would be a RLM66 dark blue/grey colour or as the inside of the window framing you have.

As I said, no critism intended, just ideas.

Cheers

Shessi

Nice beginning work... by the way and pardon my ignorance... but what does IMHO mean????

[Shessi]

Most people here don't use text speak, neither do I, there are many, but a couple are quick and saves typing..IMHO = In My Honest Opinion, another is IIRC..If I Remember Correctly.....

Cheers

Shessi

[gaucho_59]

Most people here don't use text speak, neither do I, there are many, but a couple are quick and saves typing..IMHO = In My Honest Opinion, another is IIRC..If I Remember Correctly.....

Cheers

Shessi

I don't text at all... so I am not familiar with those shortcuts... interestingly enough... we are finding here in the US that
the young people text so much they forget how to spell... :mixedsmi:

[gaucho_59]

Most people here don't use text speak, neither do I, there are many, but a couple are quick and saves typing..IMHO = In My Honest Opinion, another is IIRC..If I Remember Correctly.....

Cheers

Shessi

Studying a little more the photos you sent me... I am beginning to see that the 2D panel needs to be redone...
there are some glaring discrepancies... with the photo..

[gaucho_59]

Studying a little more the photos you sent me... I am beginning to see that the 2D panel needs to be redone...
there are some glaring discrepancies... with the photo..

Studying the photo more closely... it really seems as though there really isn't any deck showing...
It is extremely hard to work from such a poor photo... but I am slowly figuring what is what...
Here is my latest corrected image...
I think this is really very close to the real thing now...
The yoke should be a little larger but not too much... will work on that next...
I actually should be higher too... and unfortunately cover some of the panel
then again.. it could remain as is... go to try different approaches...

need to get rid of the nose showing over the windscreen... that will also make it look more in tune with the view...
Indeed it should not show at all...
Ta ta for now

[Shessi]

Does look better....less cluttered.

Yes it is a shame that there are no clear photos of the cockpit area. As I said I was tempted to get the aircraft and pilots manual, but it is some £45/$63, not just a few quid and only for this project!

Please re-consider the size of the yolk. If you think that a large instrument dial is some 4" across, then using the dials on your panel in comparison to one side of the 'W' yolk, the yolk is only 4-5" wide, the whole yolk would only be 8-10" across, much too small, where is should be in the 16"-18" size, so the pilot could get enough leverage. If it gets in the way I can make it pop-up when I fit the gauges etc.

Here is a pic from the the other direction, the pilot would actually see some of the slatted walk-way before the observers pad, so personally I think how you had it before is a little closer.

Cheers

Shessi

[gaucho_59]

Does look better....less cluttered.

Yes it is a shame that there are no clear photos of the cockpit area. As I said I was tempted to get the aircraft and pilots manual, but it is some £45/$63, not just a few quid and only for this project!

Please re-consider the size of the yolk. If you think that a large instrument dial is some 4" across, then using the dials on your panel in comparison to one side of the 'W' yolk, the yolk is only 4-5" wide, the whole yolk would only be 8-10" across, much too small, where is should be in the 16"-18" size, so the pilot could get enough leverage. If it gets in the way I can make it pop-up when I fit the gauges etc.

Here is a pic from the the other direction, the pilot would actually see some of the slatted walk-way before the observers pad, so personally I think how you had it before is a little closer.

Cheers

Shessi

The slatted crawlway can be reinstated... perhaps a little less of it showing that I had it before.... no problem.... will increase the size of the yoke... actually, it is clear enough
on the photo... to get it exactly in the right proportions because it also shows the gauges to advantage... and use your idea about sizing it should work fine... probably four
gauge diameters wide or so... will experiment to get it the right size...
might even incorporate a decent crew member supine too... obviously his feet would not show... probably something like just above the hips...

[Shessi]

G,
Would you mind a couple of small things:-

Make the inside edges of the panel straight not curved in the slight 'S' shape you have, I know it might look like that in some pics, but it is straight down with a curved corner.

Overall a much darker colour. Luftwaffe interiors were, very early war RLM02 (a creamy yellow grey) and then all became RLM66 dark blue grey, which would get chipped and a little worn but would not get weathered, so little fading and keeping the dark shade. Here is a pic of a Ju88, even with the photo flash, you can see the colour.

Also I've found a couple of pics showing the control yolk in action, one shows a hand on the yolk. It's not that big but is in that 14-18" size. And they both show that clock/stop watch on top of the yolk, so it is there and an operational item.

Thanks

Shessi

[gaucho_59]

G,
Would you mind a couple of small things:-

Make the inside edges of the panel straight not curved in the slight 'S' shape you have, I know it might look like that in some pics, but it is straight down with a curved corner.

Overall a much darker colour. Luftwaffe interiors were, very early war RLM02 (a creamy yellow grey) and then all became RLM66 dark blue grey, which would get chipped and a little worn but would not get weathered, so little fading and keeping the dark shade. Here is a pic of a Ju88, even with the photo flash, you can see the colour.

Also I've found a couple of pics showing the control yolk in action, one shows a hand on the yolk. It's not that big but is in that 14-18" size. And they both show that clock/stop watch on top of the yolk, so it is there and an operational item.

Thanks

Shessi

I am afraid I am in for a complete redo...hahahaha Wish you had sent that picture at the beginning!
It's a great thing nonetheless... working from this fine photo... the redo is going to come out really, really nice!!!
it's got the right colors, first and foremost...
This one has a sort of pinking sheared edge on the left side... different from the left... very remarkable detail to take in...
It is different from the b&w photos... which indicates there were more than one style or shape of instrument panels...
Excellent resource... to save time.. .I think that I will incorporate those things into the present study... rather than start
from scratch... don't know... I'll figure something out...

Oh, oh... I was in too much of a hurry... THIS IS MORE LIKE SOME Mk of a Ju-88 or something like it... it is just for the colors...
I see.. realized it when I looked at the joystick... and upon further perusal... the greenhouse glassed nose... mmm too bad
would have liked to change the shape of the panel... at any rate... it is good for the colors... back to the drawing board...
Will change the edge as per your instructions...

[Shessi]

Ha ha!...I thought the same when I came across it, but realised there are no He115 in this condition out there (at the moment), and then read it was a Ju88A4. As you say it was the colour I wanted to show you.

It's strange as this was the Luftwaffe's best torpedo bomber, used from 1939-1943-44 and in the Battle of Britain, a well known ac, and yet there are very few, if any, pics of the inside or instrument panel...only if you have the manual.

Cheers

Shessi

[gaucho_59]

Ha ha!...I thought the same when I came across it, but realised there are no He115 in this condition out there (at the moment), and then read it was a Ju88A4. As you say it was the colour I wanted to show you.

It's strange as this was the Luftwaffe's best torpedo bomber, used from 1939-1943-44 and in the Battle of Britain, a well known ac, and yet there are very few, if any, pics of the inside or instrument panel...only if you have the manual.

Cheers

Shessi

Hope this is in keeping with your suggestions... I am fast approaching the limits of my re-doing skills... lol

[gaucho_59]

Hope this is in keeping with your suggestions... I am fast approaching the limits of my re-doing skills... lol

I forgot to eliminate the windshield area where the nose showed erroneously...
and changed the volume of the handholds...

[Shessi]

Great work there G,
The overall colour is much better, the loss of the nose in the windscreen is much better, the bigger yolk is just about right and the stop-watch looks good as well.

And yes you must be fed up with keep going on!

Saying that! (don't laugh), could I ask a couple of minor things.
Would you make the rudder straps and the front observer pad either a dark brown leather or dark grey. These would not have been canvas and it's a bit too greenish/yellow.

And the ammo feed for the nose gun would not be belt-fed but an ammo magazine as below, would mind either removing the ammo belt or replace it with a magazine if possible?

I really appreciate what you've done, I could not do it, and I look forward to putting it with the finished He115...sometime in the future. Thanks.

Cheers

Shessi

[gaucho_59]

Great work there G,
The overall colour is much better, the loss of the nose in the windscreen is much better, the bigger yolk is just about right and the stop-watch looks good as well.

And yes you must be fed up with keep going on!

Saying that! (don't laugh), could I ask a couple of minor things.
Would you make the rudder straps and the front observer pad either a dark brown leather or dark grey. These would not have been canvas and it's a bit too greenish/yellow.

And the ammo feed for the nose gun would not be belt-fed but an ammo magazine as below, would mind either removing the ammo belt or replace it with a magazine if possible?

I really appreciate what you've done, I could not do it, and I look forward to putting it with the finished He115...sometime in the future. Thanks.

Cheers

Shessi

Apparently, it is an aircraft version of the MG38 OR MG42... can do...
will post the changes on next installment...