HD speed question

[HundertzehnGustav]

i ahve the choice...
-put a specially designed HD into my Hewlett Packard PC.
into a slot behind the door... on the left sside of the tower


this would mean a relatively small HD of 300Gigs maybe.

Would i get the same data transfer speeds if i were to use an external HD with an USB Cable, using an external, bigger terabyte Hard drive?

additional question:
on this HD i wont need to install my os. is it possible/wise to install programs on an external HD without performance loss or other risks?

Programs like games or openoffice...winamp or such... simple stuff.

would i be able to unplug that HD and plug it on a different PC, and still be able to start the programs?

[HundertzehnGustav]

ever since i posted i been reading a lot and realize that it is not the data transfer from A to B via the cables and the buses, but the access to the data that takes time and *might* represent a bottleneck.
Access to data being related on how fast the mechanics of the Hard drive move, and how fast the disk(s) of the HD are spinning 5-400, 7-200 or faster... up to 15-000 RPMs...

anyone confirm?

[David_L6]

I tried to run videos from a USB external hard drive once and it didn't work out all that well for me. Haven't tried to run any games from it. All I use it for now is storage/back-up.

From what I understand an e-sata is what is needed for games. I haven't tried e-sata yet though.

I'm not sure what you meant by "put a specially designed HD into my Hewlett Packard PC". Specially designed??? If your case has a slot for an additional hard drive I'd just install another internal drive.

[HundertzehnGustav]

nono, that thing would have a special, oval shape... hold on, heres a pic of it.


something like this... with the HP logo on it.
Basically, behind that left door in the front, there is a vertical space, and i can put such a Hard drive in there, a HP drive for a HP PC. it is sposed to be a removeable (200, 300 whatever Gigs size) drive.

A-HAAAAAA

hold on i found something, i might just be able to stick a normal sata drive i there...


That might answer my question.. i could put a 500 or more Gigs HD drive in there, connected directly to the Mobo instead of passing thru the USB 2.0 stuff first.

plus choose a 7-200 rpm fast drive.

need to read even more...

but i think internal is faster than external via USB...

no?

[David_L6]

Yes, internal is going to be faster than an external USB connection.

[GT182]

HG, you can run games off that second HDD too. I made a folder in F Drive and called it Program Files like in my C Drive. If your mobo supports SATA II, get one of those. You'll be glad you did. Plus you can use it for storage at the same time. Get a big 'un. :d

[HundertzehnGustav]

Yo...
i got an itch for the word "terabyte"
but more likely opt for a smaller but faster (7-200rpms), 500Gigs one in the internal slot; vertically mounted as in the picture above. (got the same PC)

Will grab a backup / Raid 1 unit sometime down the road, i can have 2x500Gigs for 120Yuroes at the moment.

Sata or Sata II, i still have to find out what that is, and wether it makes a LOT of difference.
Two weeks ago i didnt know the difference between IDE and Sata in the first place, GOOD LORD!

and i wannabe a professional pc techead someday LOL.

reading reading reading, taking notes, asking questions...:focus:

Thanks for your attention and answers!

[GT182]

SATA tranafers data at 1.5mb/sec. SATAII does it at 3mb/sec. But you need a SATAII compatable motherboard for a SATAII drive to work. Without it the SATAII drive will only work at 1.5mb/sec.

[Moparmike]

Another possibility is if your PC has an "eSATA" connector. eSATA stands for external SATA. This will allow you to run an external drive at SATA bus speeds but still have an external drive.

The only drawback is that it'll be portable only to other machines with an eSATA connector, but the data transfer will be much faster than a USB external drive.

It looks like you've already found the solution in mounting just a regular 3.5" drive into that 5.25" bay though.

[HundertzehnGustav]

Mike that photo above is not my case... i found it on the net...

but that extra Hard drive
Hmm, i do not think i want it to be portable...
right now, my philosophy is to have everything in one single box, nice and clean.
if i have to transfer something (to multiple places), i use the net (rapidshare) to store it, or just my 256 mb flash drive.

...or the 2048 MB one if i can save that.:mixedsmi:

PLUS...

if i have a full terabyte HD, i will lose an entire TB drive if it craps out.
Even if its not full.
having 500GB + my current 290 GB will bring me up to 790Gigabyte.
should be enough for a humble student like me.

PLUS....

i still have an old 160GB "ide" drive.
I could add that later on, as a storage only device, just for practice.
That would probably mean i have to change the PSU for a different one with more cables or something.

And that in turn can be good, just to prove myself that i am able to switch PSUs without blowing things up.

it is on the "to do" list anyway if i want to pass my final exams...:ernae:

Starting to like this hardware/Software world...:friday:

Cheers guys!!

[HundertzehnGustav]

Thanks GT182, my mobo does only the basic Sata...
:wave::friday::ernae:

[GT182]

Just so you know, SATAII works on a basic SATA mobo. It won't operate at the 3mb/sec speeds is all, only 1.5mb/sec. I'm set up that way right now... that way I'll have the SATAIIs beforehand for my next puter.

[HundertzehnGustav]

oh that doesnt matter... i will keep the sataII disk for using it in the future, with my first selfbuilt coming for Christmas this year...:woot:
they be working on Sata 3 now... 6 gigs a second!
what Hd will be able to keep up with that?
LOL

[srgalahad]

HG, the drive you are asking about is an HP Personal Media Drive.
HP 500 GB Personal Media Drive
Store loads of your photos, home videos, and music on one handy, highly spacious (500GB), compact (8 x 4.6 x 1.5") and portable external drive! Use it alone, connected via USB cable with any PC, or in the chassis slot of select HP PC products.

• Back up fast with the high-speed USB 2.0 transfer rate and integrated software
• Keep tabs on the storage with the power and drive activity LED indicators

That's from the HP site. SO, it's a USB drive that has a special connector on the back that hotplugs into a USB port behind that door. As such, they are removable (hot-swappable) but, being USB you won't get any faster access than a true external USB drive. Also, a few people who have used them reported heat-related failures when one drive is left in the PC all the time and run constantly - HP boxes aren't the coolest inside. Ergo, it's OK for data that you'd like to remove (to share, or to hide away safe from prying eyes or thieves)
-------------------------------------------------------

As for the Terrabyte drive, here's my (old-minded) philosophy:
Consider any drive like a closet, file cabinet or box... you want to find a business card you tucked away ( data)... in a small box you have little to search thru when it's almost empty, a bit more when half full and a bunch when it's full... move up to a large file cabinet and the search times get proportionally longer... if everything is stored in one large walk-in closet, even at 20% full you'll search a long time. While we're talking milliseconds in computers it still applies and time is cumulative.

Operating systems need fastest access, followed by programs, followed by data so- smaller, faster HD for the OS, separate, smallish HD for critical programs, and then whatever size closet or barn you want to store the data, debris and junk.

I've run on this theory for 20 years and never lost "everything"... one OS drive failure never hit my data, one Program drive never shut down the computer ( just the painful reinstall of the software) and for the last few years most of my data is on one or more 320Gb or smaller (each set up for photos, docs, etc.) drives all backed up to large (500Gb) externals.
(currently my WinXP OS drive is 80GB and is only 50% full including the "program files" folder that some stuff HAS to be stuck in)

The manufacturers put in the biggest drive that fits their price point in the knowledge that the average new user has no clue about multiple HDDs or how to use them.. give 'em one big box to fill with everything.

Other philosophies may vary.

Rob

[srgalahad]

To add to the above, I just bought a new system that came with one 640GB HD. Before it gets run that will change to:
2x 160GB in RAID 1
1x 160GB for Programs like FS9 & FSX
the 640GB becomes my data Drive (probably partitioned into 2x 320Gb just for my mental clarity- current projects /other data)

[HundertzehnGustav]

Hmmm...
i sat in my informatics class yesterday, bored and tinking about the "good old times" where HD space was not even a factor to me.

The first PC with a 120 gigabyte HD, back in 2002 i felt at ease, as if i had UNLIMITED storage space. the biggest Flight simulator i used had 1.5 gigs at most, and the rest of the data was smalltime too. 120 Gigs...

I clearly remember asking myself How the hell i was sposed to fill that thing up? LOL

So i wondered how i could go back in time, and get back the comfortable feeling of unlimited space. Indeed, what you say must be a solution. instead of having one big box (i prefer "one big carpet") i must be careful and think wiser, backup and Raid and all that. Therefor i think i might make better use of my limited resources when installing multiple drives, be that in Raid or not. 4 or 5 disks of medium size... with an external one for the critical data.

And then The DVDs with the Data Archives...

But these superfast HDs... those that turn ten thousand RPMs... expensive... are they worth it? Need to read a lot more, facts and opinions alike.

I do not know... the more i think about it, the less i like this very special box setup tha HP has given me. Crammed full, with no access to no damn near nothing:argue:. As you say... HP arent the coolest of cases. I can see why.

I am still reading about the subject, and asking advice from my teachers...

Being "new" to this technical side of simming means i am often confused, and often have too much information and product choices on my hands to make a rapid decision.

Speed vs size,
safety (multiple small drives) vs simplicity of a large one,
do it now or do it later,
with acomplete new and bigger computer case ->cooling, what is the price i am ready/able to pay...

I have to make up my mind, and this time it is not an easy decision.

LOL and posting after an all-nighter in a virtual Messerschmitt doesnt help either.:faint:

im off to class:faint:, see ya later.:wave:


appreciate your advice, galahad!