Should we open or close Thanksgiving Day

[srgalahad]

Before I respond to the question I have to explain that, until I retired, I may have been on a day off for any of the federal holidays, but if my rotation made it so I worked on Thanksgiving, Christmas, etc. As nice as it sounds for everyone to be able to celebrate these significant days ( even when we forget some of the reasons for their existence) I can't even imagine the reaction to an ATIS message that went:

"NOTAM all ATC services are unavailable today as it Easter/Christmas/Labour Day (etc) and your ATC staff are at home with the family. Normal service will resume tomorrow. Have a safe flight"

However, since ATC, and hospitals and police, among others, are deemed to be "essential services" we accept that not everyone gets the same deal. At least in the units I worked we made every effort to trade/juggle/schedule so that anyone with kids, or planning a family gathering could get at least the major part of the 'normal' day off. (Single guys often got New Years off to allow them the pleasure of enjoying their hangovers)

As far as the non-essential part of the world - and one retail day is pretty non-essential - yes, that's why the holidays are federally or locally mandated ... so that the 'average' person could be assured of having those days free to celebrate or rest. Most labour laws have the loophole that allows for a 'day in lieu' and/or overtime for working on the holiday and many owners took that a step further by threatening action against any employee who actually might want to enjoy the holiday. (Seem to remember a Charles Dickens story about a boss like that...)

Regarding the Thanksgiving/Black Friday debate, it's partly a curse of the US holiday calendar... Thanksgiving falls so conveniently about a month before Christmas that the (big) retail (corporate) owners saw it as perfect timing for a big sale to generate revenue well before the year end to make those books "black" instead of biting fingernails thru Christmas. Since Canadian Thanksgiving is in early October, the concept never took off - too early. We had our own perversion (Boxing Day Dec. 26th) but that's another story.

Should it be a shut-the-door holiday? yes, because most people don't give two hoots about workers' rights.
Is it too late to go back to the concept? Probably as the masses have been raised to believe that personal pleasure (in this case shopping and deals) is far more important than quality of someone else's life and the corporate bean counters don't care crap about any of the 'little people'

[hawkeye52]

....it's called "Black Friday" after all, because that's when most retailers actually move into the "Black" financially. They've operated in the "Red" on their balance sheets all year.

Yes, that is the reason (excuse?) profferred. Think about it: you have a business that operates 363 days a year and 362 produce a daily loss? You're asking me to believe that Walmart, Target, Macy's et al could not survive without Black Friday when, BTW, they sell stuff at massive discounts?

Methinks something stinks in this argument!

- H52

[Willy]

srgalahad, like you, I missed a lot of holidays but for me it was active duty Navy. Some career paths require those kind of sacrifices. However, I don't see a retail store as an essential operation for safety like air traffic control or military.

[The B24 Guy]

I wonder how much freedom the employees have to say yes or no for that holiday?

If they don't like it they are free to quit.

Regards,
B24Guy

[Jagdflieger]

My wife and I were checking out at Fred Myers (a large multi product grocery store in the NW) and I asked the clerk if she had to work on Thanksgiving. She replied (enthusiastically) that, yes, she was working. I asked her if she was getting extra pay and she said that she would receive time and a half. She also said that several of her fellow employees had asked for her shift on Thanksgiving, but that she wouldn't give it up.

I noted an engagement ring on her finger, so I assumed that the young lady did not yet have a family and that working on a holiday posed no issues for a family in her case.

[jhefner]

My wife and I were checking out at Fred Myers (a large multi product grocery store in the NW) and I asked the clerk if she had to work on Thanksgiving. She replied (enthusiastically) that, yes, she was working. I asked her if she was getting extra pay and she said that she would receive time and a half. She also said that several of her fellow employees had asked for her shift on Thanksgiving, but that she wouldn't give it up.

I noted an engagement ring on her finger, so I assumed that the young lady did not yet have a family and that working on a holiday posed no issues for a family in her case.

There are those in the medical and other industries that likewise cannot shut down on holidays that welcome the time-and-a-half pay if they have choice.

[Odie]

My first job ever was as a "package boy" (yep, that was the job title) in our small town. Remember when grocery stores had people that bagged your groceries, loaded them into the cart, pushed the cart to your car, and then unloaded them into the car? I was one of those guys. I worked at one of two stores owned by the same man. Rumor had it one year that the rival grocery store was going to stay open on Thanksgiving Day. When we asked the owner of our store if we were, his reply was, "If they do, we do."

It's most likely the same now as it was then. At my job now, we operate 24/7, 365 days a year. The lights are always on.

[RedGreen]

If they don't like it they are free to quit.

Regards,
B24Guy

Good luck finding another job in this economy, though.

[CG_1976]

"Thanksgiving Day" Not my day off. USCG Personal don't ever go off duty or retire unless we call in Dead:salute: ourselves. It's our Motto Sempar Paratus.

[pfflyers]

When I was working there were plenty of people who volunteered to work holidays for the extra pay, just like that woman at Fred Meyers. I usually took the time off instead, but I wouldn't want to deny those that need or want the extra income the chance to make it.

[n4gix]

In my area here in northwest Indiana, there is a locally owned grocery store chain named "Strack and VanTils". All but one of the stores that is, which was retained by Mr. Strack and his family and is named simply "Stracks." It is the only store in the entire chain that to this day remains closed on Sundays and major holidays. Mr. Strack and his family are devout Mormons and simply will not compromise their principles.

[The B24 Guy]

Good luck finding another job in this economy, though.

Good workers will always have another Job.

In my wife's and my business we wese closed two days, Thanksgiving and Christmas.
But, that was our choice and thankfully "for now" the goverment has not used it's power to force us to do otherwise.

Regards,
B24Guy

[stansdds]

One of the most successful family owned grocery stores around here was Ukrop's. It started as one store, then grew into a chain. They were always closed on Sundays and the six major holidays (New Year's Day, Memorial Day, Fourth of July, Labor Day, Thanksgiving Day, Christmas Day) and were not open 24 hours a day, but only from 6AM to 10PM. They were also considered expensive, sold no alcohol, but did offer high quality items and personal customer service. Ukrop's was able to out-compete the big guys, like Food Lion, for many years. It was only a couple of years ago that the family sold the chain to Giant/Martins. Now, Martins is open 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year, offers mostly their own brands of food items and most people that I have talked with do not like the quality nor the service.

What brought people to Ukrops and made them so successful was quality items and personal service. Most of the retail stores I go into do not offer anything special and getting someone to assist me in finding something or answering a question is sometimes an impossible mission. If retailers gave the service that Ukrops did, I tend to doubt they would have to resort to having monster sales during a holiday. By the way, some of those monster sales are actually their everyday sales, but with better advertising.

[Kofschip]

I am going to ignore the "Thanksgiving shopping." I think that here in New Jersey a lot of people have other things on their mind, shopping is a very low priority. BTW, I am working tomorrow, feeding people who were a lot less fortunate than me in the hurricane. I cannot think of spending Thanksgiving in a better way.:USA-flag::USA-flag::USA-flag:

[Dain Arns]

I am going to ignore the "Thanksgiving shopping." I think that here in New Jersey a lot of people have other things on their mind, shopping is a very low priority. BTW, I am working tomorrow, feeding people who were a lot less fortunate than me in the hurricane. I cannot think of spending Thanksgiving in a better way.:USA-flag::USA-flag::USA-flag:

Amen. :salute:

[TeaSea]

I would caution the forum about being too "Utopian" in our thinking....

It's always tempting to say "there ought to be a law"....with the follow on subject being whatever YOU want it to be. That really doesn't work. Thanksgiving, despite it's religious overtones, is a secular holiday. It's persistent because it was made a Federal Holiday by U.S. Law. While we may argue regards custom we can either "opt in" or "opt out" of shopping based on our own feelings. That's a choice we have the freedom to make....and despite assertions to the contrary, we always have a "choice"....we just may not like our choices.

That's the way it "ought" to be (bit of a conundrum there) if we want to keep in line with our Western views of governance. Utopianism as outlined by Sir Thomas Moore is a nightmare of repression. The concept of "what ought to be" is what leads to our most oppressive governments and vicious wars. Read "Brave New World" for the Utopian version of a Dystopia (the other great Dystopia being presented by "1984").

Who knew that a discussion on store hours had such a deep basis in Western philosophy....but it does.

Have a good time and good "choice" Koschip. :salute:

[Rami]

I don't go anywhere near malls between Thanksgiving and New Years, period.

Amen, I don't go near them either.

[brad kaste]

Amen, I don't go near them either.

Make that a 'double' amen for me. In fact,......make that amen for 365 days of the year. Period!