Mission building

[Led Zeppelin]

Actually, I am experimenting a new way of mission building.

What I like in flight sim is the historical aspect. Building missions with many planes involved is a long process, it can take hours of setup and often, I am not very happy with the result mainly due to CFS3 limitation (especially AI rubish behavior). This long process is quite frustrating because there are a lot of scenarios I would like to work on but I can't due to lack of time.

If you look closely to WWII pilots accounts, even in huge battles involving hundreds of aircrafts, it was always turning into individual dogfights and at the end 'suddenly, the sky was empty'.

What I am trying to do now is building missions with only the player aircraft (fighter missions) or the player formation (bombers). All other secondary aircrafts are not in the mission (bombers to be escorted...).


+
_ it takes less time to build a mission.
_ setup is much easier which usually gives better results in terms of gameplay and historical accuracy.
_ missions are more challenging because, for exemple, there is no way to send the wingmen against flak guns to reduce defenses before attacking...


-
_ slightly less immersive because there is less air activity around the player.



I'm quite happy with this at the moment, I'm testing with an Operation Dragoon scenario. If some of you are interested, I can adapt them to ETO standard for release.

Attachment 74373

[Rami]

Led Zeppelin,

Is this meant to be in the CFS2 or the CFS3 forum? If so, welcome aboard! Dragoon has been on my to-do list for ages now.

[Pat Pattle]

Interesting train of thought LZ. There's work being done with OFF on ai behaviour, there may be something to learn from it when released.

[Led Zeppelin]

it's CFS3! Sorry, I've posted in the wrong forum...

[rocketred]

many tks for any suggestions ......one may have

for any whitley bomber



tks

joshua then and now

[gosd]

Yes!,Yes! Please do !

[mongoose]

I am not sure I entirely am with you on that Loic. In BoB one would want to see the large German formations as that is what the dozen or less RAF bods actually saw and had to wade into! The empty skies will happen AFTER engaging, and that also seems to happen in CFS3. Also with my building of large RAF bomber formations for TOW, it gives a much more realistic effect on target. If player is NJ then he was most often a solo player flight (with maybe spawning other NJ ac coming into play.
Also I have been toying with big USAAF raids like the Regensburg ones and large formations are a must IMO.


I agree that it is a pain to build up missions with 300+ ac!! I would like to work out a short cut for that but no luck so far.

ai ac behaviour is something which does need working on.

Increased use of spawns is something else which might be worth looking in to.

I feel you are one of the best missions builders so I make these comments with respect!

[Led Zeppelin]

Regarding bomber formations, I always make them at the maximum permitted by CFS3: 8. I don't add more because there is no need, the player will never engage douzens of bombers. If he is not shot down by gunners at the first attempt and manage to shot down a bomber, he will engage the same formation a second time but not much in most cases.
As a player, if you stay in the cockpit with Tactical Display turned off, you can add hundereds of aircrafts, you will never see them, just the couple of those which are around you.

I've used spawns in many missions but as soon as you want someting more precise then, it doesn't work.
- In a Mustang mission, I have not been able to make a spawned Me262 (mission Bomber_Intercept) to engage the spawned B17's, he will always turn against the player.... and become an easy kill because hill will dogfight a single engine fighter, I have never been hit by Me262's.

- I am not able to make a bomber formation to hit the target I want them to hit, they always drop bombs on bridges or other secondary targets. I am not happy with the pathfinder mission I've build, it is very frustrating, I spent hours in setup but without results, spawns just do what they want.


Regarding AI behaviour. For exemple, for Bob era: if you build a mission with 8 109s (player formation) vs 8 Spitfires, you can be sur that within 30 seconds all 7 player wingmen will be shot down and once you're alone vs 8 Spitfires above London, you have no chances.
When you damage and put an AI aircraft into flames, he will continue to fight with all his capabilities, the engine will never overheat, g forces have no effect on pilot, he has no fuel... and many other things like that.

If you fly a Spitfire in a Bob mission then, all you have to is is to send 2 wingmen at the bombers to achieve mission goal and all other wingmen against 109's... piece of cake.

In the other hand, if enemy aircrafts are 110's then, they will have much more chances to survive than 109's because of the sniper rear gunner whol will shot down a couple of Spitfires. Well, just the other way of what happened in the real world....


For TOW it is much easy because there is no escort:
- if player is fighter, he will operate alone against isolated bombers because of wide formations (the formation of 8 bombers with OffsetScaleFactor="8" give a good result in my opinion but there are other good pssibilities).

- if player is bomber then, the same wide formation is used but, if a night fighter is placed then, it must be a single engine fighter, AI behaviour with heavy fighters is laughable.... he will do many things, even firing at the clouds but he will not be able to engage a bomber. In the Anzio night bomber missions I've build, I'm able to shot down Beaufighters while flying a Do217 or a He177... there is something wrong... and the Beufighter is the heavy fighter with which the AI has more success.

[HouseHobbit]

I think I understand your attempt LZ, the AI are disappointing o say the least ..

I usually send in My AI (fighter) after the enemy aircraft, before I engage myself..Thus solving the AI wingmen from getting shot up..
And as each AI wing men announces He is returning I assign a new target and send them after this..
I does require I keep a eye on My AI wing men and what is happening in a large formation..

I have some small success at modifying the files to get the Ground units to be somewhat more effective, But haven't been able to sort out the AI in the air yet..

Anything to make building this faster is very welcomed by me..
After spending many many hours setting up missions, this would be a Blessing..

I have learned as Large formations engage I always send My AI wing men in first..
That allows me to focus on a target..

Many times I do find myself "saving "a Wing man or two during the engagement..
Which was done in real life..I listen closely during the engagement to the radio calls from my AI wingmen, this lets me Know who may be in trouble, and who is engaging with success..
Then I develop my attack according to the needs of the moment..

I have had great success with controlling my AI wingmen using this method..
and often my wingmen achieve the goal before I have a chance to engage, but this does require a great awareness of what is happening around your aircraft and what your AI wingmen are into..
And many times I have spent as much effort keeping my AI wingmen safe as I do engaging Bombers..

As for Bombers, I always set the enemy bombers skill as Rookie!!
And thng above this will cause you to be Blown apart during a pass..

Again when attacking Bomber formations I always send in My wingmen First before I attempt to engage the bombers..
This helps Greatly, Often In bomber intercept missions spend as much time keeping Enemy fighters off my wingmen as I do Shooting Bombers on my own..
But a kill is a kill, even if it is keeping My AI wingmen tails clear..

And in personnel missions I have as many as 150 aircraft on each side engaging, and often I find myself in empty sky
around me after a solo engagement, and have to find and often save a AI wingman or two..

The game engine will attack any enemy according to who is closest to the target formation..
By sending in my wingmen first on Bombers they tend to draw off the AI bomber fire, allowing me to engage somewhat safely..

If you set AI Bombers on Expert, they will never miss if you close within 500 yards..
Built into the game engine in CFS3 on expert settings the AI Bomber rarely miss at close range..

It has taken me many years of CFS3 mission Building to sort out tactics that can counter the Poor performance Of the CFS3 Game engine and AI aircraft..
And like you are always looking for new ways to overcome the poor design of the CFS3 game engine

Many thanks for this effort and I do welcome Greatly any help you can develop in this area..
Bravo..