Sabre Shots

[DagR]

I once drew the font used by NAA for tail numbers and buzz numbers. Great looking aircraft ! Gets better each time I see new shots of it.


Best
DagR

[hairyspin]

Oh dear, someone re-upholstered the armrests. I'll just have to fly this one a LOT and wear them down myself.

I like the used look in the VC, looks like it already flew a full tour in Korea. I just wish I could build stuff as good as that myself! :isadizzy:

[Jon@FSXACO]

Here are some night shots of the Virtual Cockpit, which I think is just amazing. Still very much a work in progress, but looking great so far.

Attachment 68156Attachment 68160


Jon Bailey

[Roger]

It's enough for a total prop man like me to consider a purchase

[Roadburner440]

We will be making the canopy look more like it is actually there. That is one of my critiques of it as well after seeing it myself in the sim. Keep in mind this is Alpha1.0 of this bird. So there is still a good amount of work to do before it hits the market. We have backed off recently from showing very early builds of projects, but Bone definately took some nice screens. I look forward to showing more of this aircraft off in the future. We are still trying to finalize features so at a future date we will be giving more info.

[jocko417]

...there are many known faults with the model, so if you see something amiss, it's probably already on the laundry list. By all means (with the exception of hand grenades), you're free to speak up about it, though.

/Nomex ON


As mentioned in this thread:

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforum...l=1#post736538


Please remember, I only bring these minor points up because this is a great product, and it has the ability to be an outstanding one! This is not an attempt to kick anyone's sand castle. :salute:


Gun ports/blast pane:

Attachment 70325

Attachment 70326

vs.

Attachment 70327

Note the top gun port's location, well aft and only extending fwd to about the halfway point of the blast pane. Also note the space below the lowest gun port and the edge of the blast pane.


Wing Fence:

Attachment 70330

Attachment 70332

vs.
Attachment 70333

Maybe a bit too high?


Stick Grip:

http://markhitcom.mysinablog.com/ind...icleId=1495391

Attachment 70334

[jocko417]

vs.

Attachment 70336

Attachment 70337

Note the overall shape, the size and shape of the hand rest on the right side. My old man has a stick and throttle grip from the F-86's he flew so I'm quite familiar with the look and shape of them.

Here's a link to a cool 1/1 scale model of the stick grip, probably one of the most iconic grips ever made, used well into the century-series aircraft...

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.co...Models/00.shtm


Throttle:

Attachment 70338

Attachment 70339

Attachment 70340

vs.

Attachment 70341

The pics above are from an F-104 but it's the same grip as used on Sabres, note the shape of the head where the buttons are located.

[jocko417]

There were MANY variations in cockpit instrumentation, but this shows how the barrel portion of the airspeed indicator is supposed to show 'tens' of airspeed:

Attachment 70342

This is not at all stock, but the ASI is accurate:

Attachment 70347

vs.

Attachment 70343


Once again, please don't flame me too badly for all the nit-picking. This is one of the nicest models/VCs I've ever seen. I only bring this stuff up because I'm a Sabre junkie and this one has the makings of an absolute CLASSIC.

Cheers!

[krazycolin]

No flames.

Some of the stuff you're pointing out has already been fixed. (fences, pitot etc)

However, there are some inconsistencies with what you're showing.

The ASI has been corrected for awhile...

The throttle is correct for the version of the F-86F that we're doing.
Attachment 70367
I include a pic for reference but you can also check the manual for the bird and you will see...

Oh and look at the ripped up armrests... oh deary me...

[jocko417]

Let me know what is inconsistent and I'll see about digging up some better shots, just saw the facebook pics, some nice RCAF schemes! Are you guys based in Montreal? Any chance of a Canadair Mk.6 in Milviz's future?

I'm interested to see the throttle from the airplane you've used as a reference, do you have any top down shots of the throttle?

[Snurdley]

Stunning! May want to check the buzz number font and darken the blue on the star and bar.

[krazycolin]

If you have the manual for the Sabre 30, you can check the throttle yourself. There is a top view in there. I think the pic we included shows it quite well enough that it's quite different from the one you showed... (No angled part, no triangular top down)

Edit: I have now found an online pic of the manual showing the correct throttle...

http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/Im...20Throttle.pdf

The inconsistencies are the throttle and the pics that are not F-86F-30's but rather 40's or, even, an A...

We will be doing more pics shortly.

We are indeed based in Montreal but, there is no Canadair in the future.

@Snurdley, Materials are not done yet. All pics are WIPS.

Buzz number? For which livery?

[Skyhawk18]

Stunning! May want to check the buzz number font and darken the blue on the star and bar.

The buzz number font has been changed and the star and bar blue has been painted darker on all my liveries.

[jocko417]

If you have the manual for the Sabre 30, you can check the throttle yourself. There is a top view in there. I think the pic we included shows it quite well enough that it's quite different from the one you showed... (No angled part, no triangular top down)

Edit: I have now found an online pic of the manual showing the correct throttle...

http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/Im...20Throttle.pdf

The inconsistencies are the throttle and the pics that are not F-86F-30's but rather 40's or, even, an A...

I believe the pic you posted is from this site, which concerns an F-86F-35:

http://www.almansur.com/sabre/cockpit.html

This is the same throttle as in the pics I posted above. It is the angle you are viewing it from that is misleading, same as in the artist's conception in the manual.

As for the gun blast pane, with the exception of very early A's that had rectangular ports, if it was a Sabre and had 6 x .50 cal MGs, it used the same blast pane, from the A through the E to the F. The only other exception is about 12 aircraft, some Es, some Fs, were used in a USAF experiment (Project Gunval) during the Korean war that installed 2x 20mm cannons in place of the 6 x .50 cals.

[Snurdley]

Not only is this a stunning model and textures, but it is impressive that Milviz are receptive to suggestions to make it even better (hardly rivet counting). I'll be buying this for sure.

[krazycolin]

I'm sorry but show me a F-86-30 throttle (in a F-86F-30) from a view that clearly shows the one you are showing me (the one with the triangular bit)... and I will modify it. Till then, we will go with what we have...

http://www.google.ca/imgres?hl=en&cl...r:22,s:0,i:137

I have just found this one... this is another view of the F-104 throttle that you showed earlier... you can clearly see that, given the viewing angle is nearly the same as the F-86F throttle, that its profile is not at all similar...

@Snurdley, some things are easier to fix and others... not so much.

[skyhawka4m]

I never would have thought that we would actually have a discussion on the rest pads of a hand grip in flight simulator. either some are taking it to an extreme or we have gone to a point that as a scale modeler we called rivot counting........kinda ruined the hobby for me.

[krazycolin]

I never thought we wouldn't have a discussion about them.. We've had discussions about armrests that got quite heated... throttles are, from my POV, way more important...

Anyway, the idea here is to be as accurate as we can be within the constraints of time and money.

[jocko417]

I'm sorry but show me a F-86-30 throttle (in a F-86F-30) from a view that clearly shows the one you are showing me (the one with the triangular bit)... and I will modify it. Till then, we will go with what we have...

http://www.google.ca/imgres?hl=en&cl...r:22,s:0,i:137

I have just found this one... this is another view of the F-104 throttle that you showed earlier... you can clearly see that, given the viewing angle is nearly the same as the F-86F throttle, that its profile is not at all similar...

I wouldn't say the viewing angles are at all similar. This one has been taken slightly from above, looking down onto the quadrant:

Attachment 70716

Whereas if this had still been installed in an aircraft, the camera would have had to be down around the pilot's left knee, because you can't see the top of the quadrant It's as seen from below and slightly further ahead:

Attachment 70717

Now, look at the above pic and try to imagine picking up the quadrant and adjusting it so it's at the same angle as the first one, that triangular bit will be obscured now, won't it?


As for your first sentence, there is no such thing as an "F-86F-30 throttle". I can offer you a throttle grip "as installed in the F-86F-30", as well as the A series, the rest of the F series, the D series, the North American F-100, the North American T-28 Trojan... let's not limit ourselves to NAA, how about Lockheed's F-104s, Republic's F-105s? Outside the US, Canadair built 1800+ Sabres, all with the type of throttle grip I've shown, it was also in the CF-104 and the Tutor.

Same. Grip.

My point is, this is a very popular (third party produced) grip, used by many manufacturers of single engine aircraft of the era, just like the B-8 stick grip. It is not a question of a certain model/series, like solely the F-86F-30 (and I believe the pic you posted was from 35 series, or so the site says).

It might be faster if you just show me the pics you used to model your 3D grip, from all angles of course. :ques:

Otherwise, it sounds like you have made a 3D model from one small, grainy pic, taken from one angle and you are only seeing what is not obscured by the throttle body itself, since, in the artist's conception of the throttle you posted above it correctly states that the throttle grip can be twisted for manual ranging and is spring-loaded to the fully counter-clockwise position... which hides the triangular portion from view in the pic you're referring to.

[P38man]

I vote +1 for keeping the stick as it is because I am very appreciative (not saying anyone who wants it changed is not at all) of the whole package and such a minor point means nothing to me but might be a lot of work for the modellers who have already spent so many hours on it so that we may enjoy.

Thank you, Milviz !

[Skyhawk_310R]

I never would have thought that we would actually have a discussion on the rest pads of a hand grip in flight simulator. either some are taking it to an extreme or we have gone to a point that as a scale modeler we called rivot counting........kinda ruined the hobby for me.

I think there is a lot of truth to this comment, and personally I think everyone should ponder heavily on it before making their next posts. I've been around airplanes my entire life, and one thing I have learned is that constant modifications, updates, and field repairs are a reality for all airplanes. The location and exact model of avionics were often different in the same model of aircraft I flew for the same unit. For me, if a design team uses the tech order of the actual aircraft to model the systems, then they have what is needed to make a very accurate virtual aircraft. Yes, photos and online sources can always find variances because those variances are commonplace.

Another ponder was made that deserves a response because it is also a wise observation. The man hours for producing the virtual aircraft are well below those of the real airplanes they duplicate, but the number of people producing the virtual version are so vastly smaller than who produced the real ones that the person-hours might well be the same now -- perhaps larger even! I can assure everyone that the compensation for making the virtual stuff is so vastly smaller than producing and flying the real ones that it is stark. For me, about one or two years is about all I can handle before needing a break from it. Just too many other irons in the fire that pay bills and define careers. I'm on another break period now so I hope no one thinks my remarks are self-serving.

You see it with every release: those who offer sincere and helpful inputs, those who nit pick, and those who just outrightly troll just to try to upset the apple cart for reasons only said person can truly explain but rarely feel inclined to! I think all of us should stand back and apprecaite the level of the artwork in what we see today. Frankly, it has never been finer across the board than it is right now. We should enjoy the moment and hope it continues to get better. I certainly think the bar is going to get higher with this F-86 being worked on. I think people will enjoy it and wish those making it all success.

Cheers,

Ken

[Bone]

I vote +1 for keeping the stick as it is because I am very appreciative

Thank you, Milviz !

The stick doesn't bother me either, it's close enough, and who's to say that style was never on the plane. As far as the idea that the trim switch is wrong, that's what it looks like if you break off the little China Man's hat from the switch. The trim hat is just glued on. The VC is built to look used and abused, and the broken trim switch is right there with it.

[DennyA]

I wish forum critics cared a quarter as much about flight models as they do about armrest and throttle shapes.

When I fly real planes, I'm focused on doing cool things with the orientation of the blue and green rectangles I see outside of the clear part of the plane.

Give me a Sabre that performs and feels like a real Sabre and I'll forgive a missing rivet or two.

[krazycolin]

Jocko.... Sorry, but the grip stays as is. If you don't appreciate that we have the right one, what can I say? Proving it to you is an impossible task and not one I will do.

Thanks for the other compliments.

Lets move on....

[jocko417]

Fair enough, I guess it's impossible to prove either way. Neither one of us has logged time in the real deal, perhaps RL Sabre pilots would be able to shed more light.

Looking forward to flying the heck out of it :salute: