RA-5C Vigilante

[thunder100]

Question – where are the 4 Vigis? I know only of AS and Altieri’s, and I suspect Abacus did one. Whose is the 4^th?

Thanks!

DL

The both you mentioned + ITO A-5 and ITO RA-5 so no miracle here(NO VC)

Roland

[noddy]

Attachment 65476

[delta_lima]

The both you mentioned + ITO A-5 and ITO RA-5 so no miracle here(NO VC)

Roland

Hmmm ... no VC can actually be an advantage over an embedded low-quality one, in that you can transplant one from a suitable FSX donor ... you have me thinking.

I had totally forgotten about the Ito model ... pity that there aren't too many repaints of that model. Still, might be good with a transplanted interior from some model with a one-piece windscreen ... maybe the Alphasim FSX F-5? Food for thought.

Thanks for a great thread.

[noddy]

Attachment 65477

[thunder100]

Hmmm ... no VC can actually be an advantage over an embedded low-quality one, in that you can transplant one from a suitable FSX donor ... you have me thinking.

I had totally forgotten about the Ito model ... pity that there aren't too many repaints of that model. Still, might be good with a transplanted interior from some model with a one-piece windscreen ... maybe the Alphasim FSX F-5? Food for thought.

Thanks for a great thread.

Ito-sans isnt FSX-->so the VC thing will not work-unfortunately

have fun

Roland

[papab]

If anyone has any comment on the accuracy of the underside dirt/grime this would be
the time to comment. Otherwise he'll probably use this as a common template for all
of his repaints.

Used to work on these in NAS Key West-jet mech

The recon canoe never really got that dirty(center under aircraft)
She used to get dirty around the J-79 exhaust feathers back about two feet from the end on the body of the Vigi

What a fun aircraft to wash-slipped off a wing a time or two...
Rick

[michael davies]

I saw something over on Razbam's facebook page this morning.
Looked a bit like a Vigilante panel but I might be wrong.

Over the years I've learnt one solid fact, what ever your working on then some one else is probably doing the same, if it's USN then chances are Razbam are doing one, if its USAF then it'll be Milviz .

[expat]

Rick,

Am very curious what other heavy Viggie squadrons were there at Key West and what years during your service there. I know RA5C's were winding down until the last was stood down in late '79. I camped next to the NAS on Spring Break (briefly) in March '80 and the roar of what had to be J-79's was unmistakable but from the history assume these were f-4s and Vigilante's were gone. Oh! We were in a McDonalds next to the base and some USN people had T-shirts saying: "We flew Viggies, the best for last!!" for some kind of exercise or competition. Do you know what that was about?

Really diggin these paints - and this thread!!

[Wings of Gold]

Hi guys,

I flew for the Nav for 26 years (starting in 1961). Almost all the USN textures that I see are over-weathered. The Navy birds were generally quite clean. I subscribe that to:

1/frequent corrison control, because of the ever present salt air
2/The fact that each squadron maintained their own aircraft (no maintenance squadron) gave the CO a lot more control over his aircraft.
3/ With hte close proximity of the other air group squadrons, there was a lot of rivalry.
4/ The guys who did the cleaning were on 24 hour contracts, unlike commercial aviation, no one was paid over-time to keep it looking good.
5/ I never saw a pilot who wanted HIS airplane looking filthy. I was the same way.

Bill

[OBIO]

I'm really glad to see the OBIOed AS Vig being put to use. I really enjoyed working on that big sexy plane. It's amazing seeing what Diaz has done with my bare bones paint kit....weathering and dirt just haven't worked well for me. A bit of grime is all I can muster without it looking too fakey and too overly done.

I don't know if the tried but true Alphasim F-105 Thunderchief models will work in FSX or not...but at some point, after I get over being burnt out on sim work, I need to finish up the OBIOization of those packages....lots and lots of tweaks done to the model files (including full reflectivity...FS9 style, not the bump map stuff in FSX) and some really sharp new paints.

OBIO

[delta_lima]

I personally enjoy weathered paints - maybe not as realistic, but maybe in a subtle way, they're a representation of the visceral work, danger, and effort that is military flying - that can never be fully conveyed through simulation. Maybe it's why I could more easily suspend disbelief when watching Star Wars versus Star Trek ...

Got home early tonight and did a bit of Vigi testing. Hard to choose ... Diaz' new paints give Alphasim model the nicest visual look in terms of painted realism, but I'd say Ito's model has the most amount of details and overall quality. No VC, and the flight model is wacky. What to do ... Wonderful subject - if one could combine the best of all these, there would be a pretty decent model, this side of a totally new FSX model.

Thanks!

[thunder100]

Dear DL

I fly them with the AS advanced FDE which works well after a bit of hassle(take AS-->Copy and paste from ITO FDE-->Contact points,light location's tiny others-->is more realistic then.As I do carrier landings for my own enjoyment( a bit less space to manouver though) I use the FA-18 FSX Acc settings for the tailhook there

Roland

[expat]

Agree with you DL that the weathering makes it more immersive per your Star Wars analogy. We are fortunate to have the very valuable contributions from USN vets here who saw these aircraft up close and it sounds like the weathering is a matter of degree and calibration. Looking at some pics attached again the Vets are right that the new paints are probably a bit over weathered. However, like you, I find perfect, factory fresh war planes very nice to look at but then for some reason it seems more like a game than a sim. Also very much chuckled re your bit about Mustangs, Spitfires, Barons and Hornets!!

Re FDE's, I recently switched out of the "Advanced Flight Model" which as far as I can tell merely adds lots of fuels tanks. Because I forget half the time doing traps - and as a result crash and burn - because I am flying a Viggie with 100% fuel, I need to pause in game in order to drop the fuel load down to around 20% and having a single (or even triple) tank makes this a little easier (is there a key stroke command to REDUCE fuel while flying the way their is to increase it, i.e., Ctrl + x?). If this had fuel management modelled like e.g. the CS 707 or Manfred Jahn Connies I would probably think differently. Am going to switch back to the advanced FDE however as I am finding the single tank air.cfg flies with too much nose down and needs constant up trim which is a bit tedious.

Re panels, I actually suspect that it was not blue colored like the AS panel bitmap but grey and the AS panel resulted from a color (Ektachrome) photo that turned bluish over time. Just a theory.

Re a new FSX lash up (short of ground up build) if there was some not-too-difficult way to convert Michael's model to native FSX and then splice in e.g. an F-5 vc that would go a long way for me!

[papab]

Rick,

Am very curious what other heavy Viggie squadrons were there at Key West and what years during your service there. I know RA5C's were winding down until the last was stood down in late '79. I camped next to the NAS on Spring Break (briefly) in March '80 and the roar of what had to be J-79's was unmistakable but from the history assume these were f-4s and Vigilante's were gone. Oh! We were in a McDonalds next to the base and some USN people had T-shirts saying: "We flew Viggies, the best for last!!" for some kind of exercise or competition. Do you know what that was about?

Really diggin these paints - and this thread!!

Expat,
We moved the Vigilante Community from NAS Albany,GA to NAS Key West,Fl in January of 1974..
The Squadrons that moved in were HEAVY:1,3(training outfit), 5,6,7,9,11,12 & 13 as I remember

I joined HEAVY 9 in April of 1970 and I got out in August of 1974 but my wife,who was a WAVE(still married 38 years later,even though the Chief in my shop said it would not last!), was in until 1977 so I was in Key West that whole time

Being a Jet Mech we used to take the Vigi to high power area, put her in the Alameda Chocks and tie downs, full bag of fuel, start her up and blast those J-79's from idle to full burner and back-what a trip!
The nose wuld drop two feet on full burner!

Really enjoyed my time in the NAVY
Rick

Here is a link on the Vigilante you might be interested in:

http://www.bobjellison.com/RA5C_Vigilante.htm

And another showing some videos of the Vigi:
http://rvahnavy.ning.com/video/a-5-v...te-rare-videos

[fxsttcb]

Hi guys,

I flew for the Nav for 26 years (starting in 1961). Almost all the USN textures that I see are over-weathered. The Navy birds were generally quite clean. I subscribe that to:

1/frequent corrison control, because of the ever present salt air
2/The fact that each squadron maintained their own aircraft (no maintenance squadron) gave the CO a lot more control over his aircraft.
3/ With hte close proximity of the other air group squadrons, there was a lot of rivalry.
4/ The guys who did the cleaning were on 24 hour contracts, unlike commercial aviation, no one was paid over-time to keep it looking good.
5/ I never saw a pilot who wanted HIS airplane looking filthy. I was the same way.

Bill

Ditto that, Bill.
In the Corps, rivalry, and pride, kept our Phantoms sparkling.
The only spots that weren't easy to keep clean were the lower main gear doors. That burnt rubber was tough!
I was Avionics, but, with 15 birds, and 225 total enlisted members, it fell on all of us to help.
If a section had no gripes on the board they'd have a cleaning party. Yes, it could turn into a Cluster-****, and often did!

The most Vigilantes, I ever saw in one place, was at Key West in the fall of '75, we were on the Hot Pad and, IIRC, RVAH-12 and RVAH-13 were on deck, and RVAH-9 was on the transit ramp. I love my Phantoms, but, those RA-5s were quite sleek and very impressive to watch.

Anyhoo, I started on a Alpha Viggie port-over to FSX a while back and kinda lost interest. When I saw OBIO's Restoration in the library I decided to grab it and see if I could get going again.

I have a few Panels and Ports out there, that use one of my PhantomGaugesDCBVx.cabs, so naturally the latest version(still a WIP) fit the bill for period correct instruments. By no means realistic, the Viggies VC and 2D function well in FSX.
The plane is still a WIP overall(I haven't touched the FDE...yet) and I thought I'd share a shot of my VC.
The consoles aren't mapped for gauge placement so I pretty much put everything I could on the main panel(which is mapped like a 2D).
The 2D is almost the same, but, some things needed to be moved...Don

Attachment 65508

[expat]

Rick,

That's a lot of squadrons - all of them I believe - that moved from Albany. Surprised KNQX could support that number, in addition to its other activities, though I understand in the '70s the deployed squadrons on carriers numbered about only four aircraft each. Is that right?

expat

[expat]

Don,

I have as of a few days ago refitted the AS 2d panel with your PhantomGaugesDCBVx.cabs. Did not think anything could be done with VC but your screenie makes it look great.

Regards,

expat

[delta_lima]

Awesome Don - you do some good work, mate!

Three things about the AS model that I struggle with, relating to texturing:

VC textures - even though large non-functional, it's heavily pixelated. I'm assuming that's where much of Don's work is focused, so that could be a great step forward.
black/untextured canopy interior (solid frame bits, esp the rear - not the clear canopy itself, which is fine, of course)
Wheel detail - in this aspect, Ito's is superior. Don't know how easy it is to create wheel textures

Right now, with OBIO's enhancement, I've got reheat on all the time the lights are on - I've had this with many FS9 AS birds, and I'm sure if I dig somewhere, I can figure out the gauge/light/effect linkage that seems to be the standard cause of this.

I also stumbled across a youtube video of some guy "Simsamurai" who created a nice 2D panel for this aircraft ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-s28eGcJfU

Found his blog page, but couldn't find the panel in question. Though as one of the last holdouts who as late as FS9 preferred 2D panels over VCs, I could be tempted to fly this in 2D only (as I do with almost all airliners) if the 2D panel was good. That said, I've now come out in favour of VCs, so Don's magic on the VC here might be the trick.

Looks like this thread might bust into a second page soon ...

[papab]

Rick,

That's a lot of squadrons - all of them I believe - that moved from Albany. Surprised KNQX could support that number, in addition to its other activities, though I understand in the '70s the deployed squadrons on carriers numbered about only four aircraft each. Is that right?

expat

When I got to HEAVY 9 we had six flying and one hanger Queen

By the time we deployed on the Forrestal to the Med in 72/73 we had 4 birds
Half of our Squadron went to NAS Rota Spain so when the Forrestal was in the Western Med, the birds could bingo back to Rota as not to clutter up the deck on the Forrestal
When we worked the Eastern Med we had a deployment(me included) for 4 weeks at Suda Bay Crete( shared with Greek AF) so the birds had a place to roost for the night-that was a fun deployment!


Rick

[fxsttcb]

Thanks DL and Expat! I try!

Here's a peek at where I am with a grey Version:

Attachment 65522 Attachment 65523

If and when I can be happy with it, and leave it alone, I'll stick it in a library somewhere...Don

[Navy Chief]

Hi guys,

I flew for the Nav for 26 years (starting in 1961). Almost all the USN textures that I see are over-weathered. The Navy birds were generally quite clean. I subscribe that to:

1/frequent corrison control, because of the ever present salt air
2/The fact that each squadron maintained their own aircraft (no maintenance squadron) gave the CO a lot more control over his aircraft.
3/ With hte close proximity of the other air group squadrons, there was a lot of rivalry.
4/ The guys who did the cleaning were on 24 hour contracts, unlike commercial aviation, no one was paid over-time to keep it looking good.
5/ I never saw a pilot who wanted HIS airplane looking filthy. I was the same way.

Bill

Most of the time, the aircraft in the squadrons I was in (mostly at NAS Cecil Field) were kept quite clean. However, when we would go on dets to Fallon, Key West, Roosevelt Roads, and such....it was not so easy to keep them that way. And onboard the carrier, it was almost impossible.

When we would make a port visit, the duty section would be busting their a...s, doing aircraft washes, along with other scheduled maintenance and repairs. At sea, we would go through cases and cases of spray aircraft cleaner (spray Turco). Did the best we could, but the birds definitely looked rough, coming off a cruise. And with the advent of the "Tactical Gray" paint scheme, it was even more difficult to get the aircraft looking clean. It was as if that gray paint would soak up the grime/dirt, and made it really hard to clean.

Preparing for Corrosion Inspections was very stressful. Maintenance Control wasn't notified about which 3 aircraft would be looked at by the wing, so over a period of weeks/months, ALL of the birds would be pulled into the hangar, all panels pulled, and cleaned inside and out. Even with that amount of work, the Corrosion Inspections were a nightmare for the maintenance personnel. And it wasn't just aircraft being inspected; it was all the associated paperwork, training jackets....everything!

Navy Chief

[FSX68]

We still have a viggie here at KNQA Millington, been here for quite a while. She sits in front of what was the
old galley when this was a naval aviation training command now a muni airport. We sold the 8000 ft
airstrip to the city for $1. Such a deal.

Attachment 65525

[expat]

Don, that is truly transforming work on both the 2d and 3d panels. Superb!

[fxsttcb]

Don, that is truly transforming work on both the 2d and 3d panels. Superb!

Thanks for the kind words! I'm actually getting to the point, where I can actually be happy flying this beauty rather than "Pause...Tweak...Fly...Pause...Fix...!

We still have a viggie here at KNQA Millington, been here for quite a while. She sits in front of what was the
old galley when this was a naval aviation training command now a muni airport. We sold the 8000 ft
airstrip to the city for $1. Such a deal.

Ahhhh...I remember too many rushed meals in that Chow Hall. I went through Avionics "A" and "AFTA" at NATTC Memphis a looooong time ago.
Thanks for the Viggie shot, and the nostalgia. :salute:


DL, the 'burners in FSX can be controlled in the aircraft.cfg.
I also added TSFC entries, to mine, using the RW J79 data for Fuel usage in FSX.
They may have to be trimmed to reflect the proper RW range etc., but, it is a good starting point.
[TurbineEngineData]
...
afterburner_throttle_threshold = 1.00 //Percent/100, throttle where a/b comes on
ThrustSpecificFuelConsumption = 0.85 //J79 TSFC: 0.85 lb/(h·lbf) at military thrust
AfterBurnThrustSpecificFuelConsumption = 1.965 //J79 TSFC: 1.965 lb/(h·lbf) with afterburner

I'm one of the fortunate folks that, regardless of calibration, my throttle control will not go to 100%(0.996 max) in the sim's throttle variable.
Max Throttle and the threshhold set to 1.00(100%) the "F4" key becomes my 'burner engage button. Moving the throttle back disengages it.

The gauge that controls the effect now(F-4/mirageburnerLOGO.xml) uses throttle position to turn on the Logo Light for Reheat and it engages both engines' effects simultaneously.
I'm working on a gauge that will turn on the Logo(Eng 1) and Wing(Eng 2) lights when, and only when, FSX ReHeat is active on the related engine. My plan is to include a clickable indicator that includes individual engagement for each engine, so, if an engine's throttle is less than 100%, but, greater than 99%, it will engage the 'burner on that engine without using "F4" that engages both. Thoughts?

Anybody have a fully tweaked FDE yet? I haven't spent much time in the air with her and dunno what, if anything, it needs...Don

[hschuit]

... I'm one of the fortunate folks that, regardless of calibration, my throttle control will not go to 100%(0.996 max) in the sim's throttle variable.
Max Throttle and the threshhold set to 1.00(100%) the "F4" key becomes my 'burner engage button. Moving the throttle back disengages it.
...

Try this tweak to fix the throttle not reaching 100% - open the Standard.XML file and set the AxScale value to 129 in this section:

Attachment 65599

In my file this AXIS_THROTTLE_SET section appears twice, the AxScale value was 127 before, I updated both. To avoid the settings getting screwed up again after changing FSX settings you might want to make the file properties read-only.

BTW: In Windows 7, the Standard.XML files lives in folder C:\Users\yourname<YOURUSERNAME>\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\FSX\Contr ols\
In Windows XP that is C:\Documents and Settings\yourname\Application Data\Microsoft\FSX\Controls\

cheers, Henk.