Question on Ferrying Military Jets

[AusWilko]

skyblazer I am reading on and off along with other books on my kindle sitting on planes going to and from work every week to 2 weeks a book called Once a Fighter Pilot by Jerry Cook and just reading what you have written it reminds me of the book.

[Bone]

It's true. We had our latest reunion in October at the USAF Museum, and Keith was able to bring the painting from the Pentagon, so we had it in the hospitality suite with us.

From all you've ever told me about your dad's air force career, I have to say he really did have an unusually charmed career as compared to most air force guys. He had the luck of the shamrock with him, no doubt.

Because this thread brought up the Keith Ferris aspect, I went online to see if I could get a glimpse of the F-4E print you were talking about. Lo and behold I saw a B-52D painting he had done of B-52D 55-0094. I called my dad, and it turns out he had flown that particular plane in combat over there. Even though it came from the 99th BW (which wasn't my dad's wing), once it got to southeast asia it became part of the "Provisional" bomb wing. The provisional bomb wing was created to accomodate all the crews which had come from different wings, into one fighting unit once they arrived from the states.

[Bjoern]

...

Thanks, man!

This is very true!

One of my more memorable flights was non-stop from Hurlburt Field to Ali al Salem, AB, Kuwait in an MC-130E. I recall we had five inflight refuelings to make that trip, and brother it was a LONG day and night and day!

From what I've heard about flying in a Herc, you can't catch much sleep in there if you're not used to it. Or is the noise more bearable with ear protection? (I guess you can't quite shut off the vibration)

Also, are there relief crews on board (as on the very long flights in the civvie world) or do they fill a wing tank with coffee for these flights?

[skyblazer3]

http://www.keithferrisart.com/search...ackerintheBuff

Is this the one bone?

it's a nice print.

[Bone]

http://www.keithferrisart.com/search...ackerintheBuff

Is this the one bone?

it's a nice print.

Yeah, that's the one. Mr Ferris did his bomber sortie in November 1968, the month he flew in with your dad's F-4E squadron. He must have seen those beautifull big black bombers sitting on the ramp.

[PRB]

In April of 1983, VA-94 became the first single-engine tactical squadron to “trans-pac”, when they departed NAS Cubi Point, Philippines, for NAS Lemoore, CA, with Guam, Wake, Midway, and Hawaii as waypoints. They flew with two Navy C-9s filled with maintenance people, tools, and spare parts. One C-9 would depart early, arrive at the next waypoint before the A-7s got there so they could perform post-flight and turn-around inspections. The other C-9 flew with the Corsairs, fixed any maintenance issues after landing, and launched the planes to their next waypoint. Don’t know what tanker support was involved in this flight, but there must have been some. I know USAF aircraft squadrons do not have their own maintainers assigned, so I guess any maintenance that was required would have been done by the people already assigned to those bases. Just a guess though.

[Skyhawk_310R]

Thanks, man!





From what I've heard about flying in a Herc, you can't catch much sleep in there if you're not used to it. Or is the noise more bearable with ear protection? (I guess you can't quite shut off the vibration)

Also, are there relief crews on board (as on the very long flights in the civvie world) or do they fill a wing tank with coffee for these flights?

I didn't drink a drop of coffee on that flight, but others on the crew did. We did have an augmented crew, one additional navigator and additional pilot and we rotated in and out of the seats. But, in terms of any sleep, I got to the point where I could sleep on the Herc because I got used to the constant engine sounds and I wore ear plugs. But, I confess that I probably got only a couple of hours sleep in what I recall was 36 plus hours in the air!

By the time we got to Kuwait, I lost all concept of day of the week -- it had no meaning! I think I basically lost an entire calendar day of my life on the planet due to the change in dateline heading east!

Ken

[Skyhawk_310R]

From all you've ever told me about your dad's air force career, I have to say he really did have an unusually charmed career as compared to most air force guys. He had the luck of the shamrock with him, no doubt.

Because this thread brought up the Keith Ferris aspect, I went online to see if I could get a glimpse of the F-4E print you were talking about. Lo and behold I saw a B-52D painting he had done of B-52D 55-0094. I called my dad, and it turns out he had flown that particular plane in combat over there. Even though it came from the 99th BW (which wasn't my dad's wing), once it got to southeast asia it became part of the "Provisional" bomb wing. The provisional bomb wing was created to accomodate all the crews which had come from different wings, into one fighting unit once they arrived from the states.

It's a bloody small world we live in, isn't it?

Ken

[Bone]

It's a bloody small world we live in, isn't it?

Ken

Yes it is, Ken, and then there was a couple of trips I had with a First Officer who knows you from your MC-130 days, lol. I liked the story about dropping the Daisy cutter in Afghanistan, with Brits on the radio saying the Yanks just nuked the place.

[kilo delta]

Yes it is, Ken, and then there was a couple of trips I had with a First Officer who knows you from your MC-130 days, lol. I liked the story about dropping the Daisy cutter in Afghanistan, with Brits on the radio saying the Yanks just nuked the place.

Hardly surprising!

[YOUTUBE]RfHHDwDWZwg[/YOUTUBE]

[Bjoern]

I didn't drink a drop of coffee on that flight, but others on the crew did. We did have an augmented crew, one additional navigator and additional pilot and we rotated in and out of the seats. But, in terms of any sleep, I got to the point where I could sleep on the Herc because I got used to the constant engine sounds and I wore ear plugs. But, I confess that I probably got only a couple of hours sleep in what I recall was 36 plus hours in the air!

The human ability to sleep about anywhere with some amount of getting used to the environment is amazing.

But I guess it must've been frustrating on a Herc. You nap for one or two hours and you still haven't crossed France.

By the time we got to Kuwait, I lost all concept of day of the week -- it had no meaning!

Welcome to software developing world.

I think I basically lost an entire calendar day of my life on the planet due to the change in dateline heading east!

Wouldn't you've gained it back on the return leg?

[Skyhawk_310R]

The human ability to sleep about anywhere with some amount of getting used to the environment is amazing.

But I guess it must've been frustrating on a Herc. You nap for one or two hours and you still haven't crossed France.



Welcome to software developing world.



Wouldn't you've gained it back on the return leg?

Oh thanks! Way to rub it in there, big guy! LOL!!

In terms of gaining it back, the trip back was in multiple legs as I recall, so it wasn't the same. But, I sure enjoyed the pint of Strongbow at the Bird in Hand outside Mildenhall!

Ken

[Bjoern]

Oh thanks! Way to rub it in there, big guy! LOL!!

S-s-ssstrike!

In terms of gaining it back, the trip back was in multiple legs as I recall, so it wasn't the same. But, I sure enjoyed the pint of Strongbow at the Bird in Hand outside Mildenhall!

...and the barrels of ale in the cargo hold...

[strykerpsg]

From what I've heard about flying in a Herc, you can't catch much sleep in there if you're not used to it. Or is the noise more bearable with ear protection? (I guess you can't quite shut off the vibration)

I don't know about the aircrews ability to sleep, but I personally always slept well on any of the cargo birds, but especially the 130's, with their constant vibration to be very relaxxing. The only time not so enjoyable is when they were flying contour flying and while very exciting to see the huge beasts thrusting about with ease, didn't make for very comfortable sleep. Admittedly always used ear plugs unless jumping, but even when jumping, found the circuit flying to be very calming. On the longer distance flights, the aircrew always allowed you to sprawl out a bit and sleep on the deck, which made the flights hugely much more bearable, so thanks to the airlifter crews.

Matt

[PRB]

I've never flown in a C-130, but our USAF shipmates often transport us Navy types about (and we thank you! :salute, and everyone I have ever spoken to who has flown in Hercs speak of them with the same loathing and contempt. Loud, cold, and uncomfortable seems to the the universal complaint. I have flown in a C-141 though, from Clark AFB (Philippines) to Diego Garcia, and again from Masirah to Diego G. They were ok. Slept most of the way. No windows. Navy S-3 has more comfortable seats. And better windows...

[Bjoern]

Maybe we should open a new thread titled "Survival tactics for sleeping in aircraft"...?

[TeaSea]

Went to Somalia on a C-141 in Dec 1992, forgot my poncho liner (my "woobie" -- without it you "woobie" cold!).

Froze my a** off the whole way! Finally wrapped up in a plastic trash bag and slept on the hood of one of our HMMWV's (the only heat seemed to blow down near where it was chained down).

Then I got to Somalia and spent the next 6 months sweating my a** off!

[TeaSea]

Admittedly always used ear plugs unless jumping, but even when jumping, found the circuit flying to be very calming.

Matt

I always used ear plugs, even when jumping and performing Jumpmaster or Safety duties. Sometimes I'd pry them out of my ears after 2nd point of performance, sometimes I'd pull them out on the ground after the non-PLF I usually did. I found you could actually discern speech better with them in while you were in the A/C.

Did you ever notice how quickly you can fall asleep when you're wearing a parachute harness? I would always drop right off no matter how uncomfortable. Really restricts the blood flow.

[Bone]

I found you could actually discern speech better with them in while you were in the A/C.

Ear plugs filter out high frequency noise for the most part, is why that is. I wear ear plugs every time I fly, and even when just sitting in the cockpit doing preflight stuff and boarding the peeps. The avionics fan, gasper fan, and PACK air all make alot of noise, not to mention Flight Attendants.

[CG_1976]

Ear plugs filter out high frequency noise for the most part, is why that is. I where ear plugs every time I fly, and even when just sitting in the cockpit doing preflight stuff and boarding the peeps. The avionics fan, gasper fan, and PACK air all make alot of noise, not to mention Flight Attendants.

Now this sounds like the CC150 Polaris I dealt with today at Iqaluit. Got to taxi a CC150 out of the FOL to it's parking next to the terminal for it's crew going to CFS Alert. Nono we dont have tugs or push-back bars. My ears are still ringing and sore and the vibrations errr.

[strykerpsg]

I always used ear plugs, even when jumping and performing Jumpmaster or Safety duties. Sometimes I'd pry them out of my ears after 2nd point of performance, sometimes I'd pull them out on the ground after the non-PLF I usually did. I found you could actually discern speech better with them in while you were in the A/C.

Did you ever notice how quickly you can fall asleep when you're wearing a parachute harness? I would always drop right off no matter how uncomfortable. Really restricts the blood flow.

Never took longer than about 10 minutes to doze off in harness, which always drove a reaction to assure none of my appendages hadn't slipped under the leg harness when awakened or the end result would be a high soprano yelling upon chute deployment. As for PLF, mine were always perfect three point: feet, arse and head... always laughing at rehearsals and the new guys in their perfection to land by the book.

Matt

[TeaSea]

I'm 6 foot 2 inches, weigh 230 lbs, and I used to SLAM into the ground. I actually preferred full combat equipment so it would afford some of the shock.

I'm actually responsible for bending the barrels on two M16A1's by landing on them. Broken two ruck frames by landing on the rucks after I lowered them.

Never broke any body parts though.....

[fliger747]

A limit on the fighter transit range is more like how long a guy can sit in one rather than the range of the tanker. The tanker is jusyt carrying more internal fuel, not cargo, so the amount of fuel it can carry internally is rather large. I fly with a bunch of tanker guys but haven't asked them just what the fuel capacity is, though a full loaded KC 135 is heavy indeed (comparatively).

T

[ronvking]

I used to work at Gatwick in the ops department for Trans International (later Transamerica) which operated the civil C-130 (L382 or L100) and took a trip from Frankfurt to Cairo htne back to Amsterdam and Gatwick. Trip I won't forget, in fact it was nearly 30 years ago.

As we took off from Frankfurt we were behind a B747 and as we passed abeam Athens I hear the B747 on the radio in the climb and overtaking us, she had fuel stopped in Athens while we were still plodding along mind you IIRC we cuised at around 300kts compared to the B747 at 480kts.

We got the Cairo and due to the usual chaos there the handlers didnt come to offload the cargo for 5 hours or so then I seemed to spend the time trying to stop them nicking cans of coke from the galley. Even had to thump one who thought I was the "lad for him". Net result was that the crew rest for myself and the loadmaster was a few hours shorter than planned, then company decided to change the outward leg and so the pair of us got about 3 hours sleep but as the flying lads had got the minimum rest that was OK.

Our cargo from Cairo was boxes of green beans and about an hour after takeoff we had a small engine problem which needed attention so we did a tech stop in Athens to fix it. On the next sector I was knacked so went for a "lie down" in the back and found that boxes of green beans can in fact be rather cosy when your'e tired. Net result was a few hours kip only disturbed by the loadmaster waking me up before the descent into Amsterdam. Noise, what noise, from the allisons?

[kilo delta]

A limit on the fighter transit range is more like how long a guy can sit in one rather than the range of the tanker. The tanker is jusyt carrying more internal fuel, not cargo, so the amount of fuel it can carry internally is rather large. I fly with a bunch of tanker guys but haven't asked them just what the fuel capacity is, though a full loaded KC 135 is heavy indeed (comparatively).

T

Or how long the engine oil will last!