Introducing the Avia 51

**Milton Shupe** · November 28th, 2011, 14:55

Originally Posted by OleBoy

Adding the little details

Full on

Beautifully done Oleboy

**Milton Shupe** · November 28th, 2011, 15:03

Originally Posted by Hurricane91

The textures by OleBoy and Matt Wynn are terrific and set off the beautiful form of these aircraft. Great artwork!

I am still hopeful that some interior shots will be made available from Czech sources, but if not, we can probably get close.

From what I have read, great hopes went into these aircraft. Each were hand-built with great attention to detail. I agree that the intended clientele were wealthy travelers and this would be reflected in the interior appointments.
My guess on the passenger cabin is based on the description of the flooring, and the assumption that Czech decor of the period was conservative and somewhat muted.
For the floor, walnut may have been chosen for it's durability and lighter weight than other hardwoods. Since it was inlaid, some of the aluminum floor structure would be visible. The wood may have extended up the sides of the cabin wall a foot or so to prevent scuffing.
The airline would have specified leather seating for durability. Rather than black, they may have had a dark oxblood finish. The fore and aft bulkhads would also have been leather padded to protect passengers in turbulent weather. Lever type door latches would be recessed.
A dome light or two would provide general lighting, with a separate lamp for each seat. Cabin windows would be provided with opaque shades or curtains.
Pictured below is the "smoking salon" of the He-111C with club seating arrangement. The Czech version would not have been as austere.

Attachment 53241

Excellent observations and thoughts Sir. Love the picture as a standard above which we shall strive.

Looks like lamps, dome lights and a side table may be possible too.

I will have to do light maps for the interior to show off the details at night.

Interior walls were 4'11" apart. Fortunately, most people of the era were much slimmer than we are today.

The cabin depicted in the picture appears to be at least 5'6".

**Hurricane91** · November 28th, 2011, 15:13

As for the cockpit, the door might have had a small window, and there is room for stowage area between the bulkhead and pilots seats.
I do not think the cockpit would be nearly as sumptuous as the passenger cabin. Black leather seats and some sound insulation covered in gray cloth. After all, these were comercial aircraft and the crew were employees.

The instrument panels in small European airliners of of the period seem to have been laid out similar to the Lufthansa Heinkel, but not often as logical. The pilot's side haveing most of the flight instuments. The co-pilot mans the radios and monitors the engines. He may take over for the pilot for short periods.
Primary engine controls, tachs, manifold pressure gauges and mag switches in the center. Secondary engine instruments, oil temp/pressure, cht, etc. and radios on the right.

Just guessing.

Attachment 53242

**Milton Shupe** · November 28th, 2011, 15:24

More great observations, Thank you

**OleBoy** · November 28th, 2011, 15:24

I like reading your analogy of how you envision what we're trying to re-create, Hurricane. I can almost close my eyes and picture the craft inside. Of course the pictures do help! :salute:

**Hurricane91** · November 28th, 2011, 15:54

Sorry guys, I get carried away sometimes.
Some aspects of the DC-2 shot that Matt posted, combined with Miltons temp textures would fit nicely.

***Sunny9850*** · November 28th, 2011, 17:04

My friend Joe has a beautiful....immaculate, prize winning Stinson SR-7 Reliant and while I always tell him given the choice I'd take his C-195 rather than the Stinson, it is one of the most luxuriously appointed "General Aviation" airplanes I have ever had the pleasure to be in. Now the SR-7 was more like the Spartan a personal transport type aircraft and not an airline type.
If what I read online is accurate the Avia 51 actually did some scheduled service flights so it may have been toned down just a tad bit.

If you think it is useful I will get some pictures of the SRs interior next saturday when I am back out at the airport.

Cheers
Stefan

**Milton Shupe** · November 28th, 2011, 17:32

Stefan,

Thank you. I think that unless I get actual documents from the folks in the Czech Republic, I will base the interior and cockpit around comments stated above. I am going to give some time yet to see if other things materialize.

**nigel richards** · November 28th, 2011, 21:43

Originally Posted by Hurricane91

As for the cockpit, the door might have had a small window, and there is room for stowage area between the bulkhead and pilots seats.
I do not think the cockpit would be nearly as sumptuous as the passenger cabin. Black leather seats and some sound insulation covered in gray cloth. After all, these were comercial aircraft and the crew were employees.

The instrument panels in small European airliners of of the period seem to have been laid out similar to the Lufthansa Heinkel, but not often as logical. The pilot's side haveing most of the flight instuments. The co-pilot mans the radios and monitors the engines. He may take over for the pilot for short periods.
Primary engine controls, tachs, manifold pressure gauges and mag switches in the center. Secondary engine instruments, oil temp/pressure, cht, etc. and radios on the right.

Just guessing.

Attachment 53242

H, Brilliant! For me this would be the right direction to go on panel design. :salute:

The two great advantages on this ship?

1. Semi circular panel top harmonious with nose cowling.

2, L/hand pilot's seat; goodbye to the Trimotor's annoying framework blotting out the runway on finals.

**Hurricane91** · November 29th, 2011, 04:32

Thank you Nigel, but I'm still just guessing.

I can report that some promising leads have developed. A member at Flightsim.CZ has passed my requests for interior photos to a friend who works at Avia. The friend knows a former Avia emploee who is interested in pre-war Avia aircraft and has forwarded the requests to him. Cross your fingers.

**OleBoy** · November 29th, 2011, 04:35

I am also extending my research by sending emails to the Republic of Prague. I also have my fingers crossed for any information I can acquire.

**Milton Shupe** · November 29th, 2011, 04:56

I can assure you that landing either of these aircraft from the cockpit view is not a problem. Even without flaps, these aircraft maintain a reasonable AoA on short final until the light flare.

Some of you have the new flight models and they are responding beautifully through all phases of flight in my opinion. These will be excellent hand-flyers and true to the performance numbers we have.

**Milton Shupe** · November 29th, 2011, 04:59

Originally Posted by Hurricane91

Thank you Nigel, but I'm still just guessing.

I can report that some promising leads have developed. A member at Flightsim.CZ has passed my requests for interior photos to a friend who works at Avia. The friend knows a former Avia emploee who is interested in pre-war Avia aircraft and has forwarded the requests to him. Cross your fingers.

Originally Posted by OleBoy

I am also extending my research by sending emails to the Republic of Prague. I also have my fingers crossed for any information I can acquire.

I really appreciate the extra efforts here guys. It has been very helpful, even critical to the accuracy of the models under development.

**Vratan** · November 29th, 2011, 09:46

Hi Milton,
nice work! Great planes from "The Air is our Sea" era. If you want add Czechoslovak historical newspaper in cabin, I can send it

Best regards from Prague.

**Milton Shupe** · November 29th, 2011, 10:10

Originally Posted by Vratan

Hi Milton,
nice work! Great planes from "The Air is our Sea" era. If you want add Czechoslovak historical newspaper in cabin, I can send it

Best regards from Prague.

A picture of that would be great. Happy to use it. Thank you.

**Milton Shupe** · November 29th, 2011, 18:33

Originally Posted by Milton Shupe

I can assure you that landing either of these aircraft from the cockpit view is not a problem. Even without flaps, these aircraft maintain a reasonable AoA on short final until the light flare.

Some of you have the new flight models and they are responding beautifully through all phases of flight in my opinion. These will be excellent hand-flyers and true to the performance numbers we have.

Put together a quick VC view to fly approach with the "156" to show the forward views.

1st pic: Approaching Prague from the SW - preparing to enter downwind leg descending to 2900'
2nd pic: Starting Final approach and descent, shooting for 110 kias
3rd pic: 3nm - notice maintenance of good forward view
4th pic: short final - at 81kias (prefer to cross fence at 85-90) (stall is at 71~)

Touched down 76 with good runway view until then. No bounce.
Smooth baby!

No flaps on these girls, no need. Just point and go. Climb out at 1200fpm at 106knots , cruise at 165 knots (Top speed 191 knots fully loaded), final approach 110, over the fence 85-90, touchdown 78~ or so. Supercharged so cruise at 9000' at 165 is possible.

Sweet!

**OleBoy** · November 29th, 2011, 18:36

Nice Milton. I've been waiting for the interior views in general. I been looking at the inside, from the outside for too long

**Milton Shupe** · November 29th, 2011, 18:40

Originally Posted by OleBoy

Nice Milton. I've been waiting for the interior views in general. I been looking at the inside, from the outside for too long

Maybe you did not notice but the last 2 models I sent to you have interior (VC) models included.

**nigel richards** · November 29th, 2011, 22:37

Originally Posted by Milton Shupe

Maybe you did not notice but the last 2 models I sent to you have interior (VC) models included.

Gawd strike a light!
(as my dear old Grandaddy used to say)

"Mine don't appear to have any such luxuries".....
(me this time, not Gramps)

(ah, t'would be the economy version no doubt...oh well, can't have everything in life can you?)

Don't get me wrong though, my fertile imagination more than caters for any blank areas...

"Improvise laddie!".
(Grandad used to say that, too)

And so I do.

"Chin up, always look on the bright side of things"... that's my motto.

...and it is rather a splendid view over Prague at this time of the year! (What with Christmas on the way and everything).

All those friendly upturned faces, proud as punch at seeing their lovely old aeroplane once again gracing their skies.

Sssssh! Don't tell anyone...but I'd swear I saw Milton over to my 11 o'clock enjoying the warm reception over there...

"Lovely barrel roll, Sir!"

Originally Posted by Milton Shupe

1st pic: Approaching Prague from the SW - preparing to enter downwind leg descending to 2900'
Smooth baby!

Sweet!

Sweet? Yea Sir!!! ...pure maple syrup!

Er...Milton Sir, 1st pic's upside down the way I saw it!

And I'm finally beginning to get a decent blast from its engine...

"Oh what fun, it is to ride, lul lul lul - lul lul - lulla-a-a"...

**Matt Wynn** · November 29th, 2011, 23:06

Originally Posted by nigel richards

"Oh what fun, it is to ride, lul lul lul - lul lul - lulla"...

that better not be a reference to a Festive song.... lord knows i hate them songs!

mine has no VC or cabin either...

as to my motto... well i have a few....

"Utrinque Paratus" and "High Speed, Low Drag"...

back to Avia.... once i get the cabin/VC i may do a "Miltons Execu-Travel" livery...

complete with a very sleek interior.... my interiors have been know to be sleek...

^ that was in my personal aircraft way back when... the MelJet 777-200ER many many moons ago.... them light strips came on when the panel lights were on

**nigel richards** · November 29th, 2011, 23:20

lul lul lul - lul lul - lulla-a-a"...SLEIGH!!! OH!, lul lul lul...

**Matt Wynn** · November 29th, 2011, 23:28

Originally Posted by nigel richards

lul lul lul - lul lul - lulla-a-a"...SLEIGH!!! OH!, lul lul lul...

"hello, yeah, put me through to the armoury........ hey, i need a favour?..........no not a huge one...... just my old L115, couple of flashbangs, my P226 and a flight ticket to thessaloniki and diplomatic box for the kit"

just kiddin of course Nige' me ole buddy.... got no-one to drink ouzo with then would i

**Milton Shupe** · November 30th, 2011, 04:17

LOL guys. I have been working through a long list of things on the "156"; two more left to do and then most of those changes must be moved to the "51".

Once that is done today, I will move inside to see what I can do about the interior cabin. I keep dragging my feet there as I am hoping for more "revelations" from the "Republic".

**Milton Shupe** · November 30th, 2011, 05:14

This is on the Avia 156 prop. Anyone know what it is? Who makes it or where I might get a better prop picture for texture?

**nigel richards** · November 30th, 2011, 05:26

I have a sneaking suspicion It's Avia' company logo.

Take a look at what appears to be an updated version...on the front of a truck!;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Avia_d90.jpg