Sibwings Safir Rudder Fix - Is there one?
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Thread: Sibwings Safir Rudder Fix - Is there one?

  1. #1

    Sibwings Safir Rudder Fix - Is there one?

    I would love to buy this if the rudder were fixed.

    From what I have read
    - it was reported many times during the beta-process by at least one of the real-life pilots and by a number of customers but was NEVER fixed.
    - Such a beautiful plane. Seems a huge shame the rudder is so far off as to be gauged as flat out wrong - goes opposite way and you cannot simply reverse it as it is the wrong "amount".

    Anyone work out a fix ????

  2. #2
    I have had this since FS9 (free update to FSX!) and have enjoyed it so much, I was not even aware of any fault! If you are in the cockpit, you cannot see the rudder, so it has made no difference to me, it's still one of the all time greats to fly, I would buy it anyway! Sibwings are also very nice people in my experience!

  3. #3
    I posted this problem a long time after beta-process in SibWings forum:

    http://forum.sibwings.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=905
    Wrong rudder effectiveness was never corrected

    Sibwings people might be nice, but obviously you only get help on installation problems anymore.
    Both planes (Safir and Bird Dog) doesn't seem to be subject of improvement any longer. Questions about this are not answered in the forum.

    Also see here my Bird Dog posting:
    http://forum.sibwings.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=955
    Never answered

    For me it seems that their forum is close to an end. If users don't get help anymore, they leave the forum and buy another product in future - far from eye far from heart!

    Greetings
    Dieter
    Greetings
    Dieter
    Win10 Pro 64 bit - RAM 16GB - 3 SSD je 500GB - 1 HD 1TB/Intel(r) Core(TM) i7-7700K CPU 4,2 GHz - Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 - FSX+Acc - P3Dv4

  4. #4
    No Safir for me.

    Thanks for your help Dieter!

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by calypsos View Post
    I have had this since FS9 (free update to FSX!) and have enjoyed it so much, I was not even aware of any fault! If you are in the cockpit, you cannot see the rudder, so it has made no difference to me, it's still one of the all time greats to fly, I would buy it anyway! Sibwings are also very nice people in my experience!

    Highlights added.

  6. #6
    haha, that's funny, I never noticed it either!
    Never mind, still one of the best GA around in my opinion.

    You can find most of my repaints in the library here on the outhouse

  7. #7
    Jankees - you have a "relationship" with the developer - conflict of interest ? Should you have not pointed that out?
    Are you/have you ever been paid ?
    http://www.sibwings.com/freeware.php


    I guess you don't use rudder pedals or the rudder at all ?

    At slow speed the rudder pedals reverse ?

    How could you not notice ?

    Seems surreal, no ?

  8. #8
    Senior Administrator Roger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P38man View Post
    Jankees - you have a "relationship" with the developer - conflict of interest ? Should you have not pointed that out?
    Are you/have you ever been paid ?
    http://www.sibwings.com/freeware.php


    I guess you don't use rudder pedals or the rudder at all ?

    At slow speed the rudder pedals reverse ?

    How could you not notice ?

    Seems surreal, no ?
    Clearly P38man this rudder issue is very important to you but your opening comments aimed at JanKees would have been better served as a private message. Jan is one of our most respected and prolific FsX repainters and all have been free to us!
    If the conversation continues in this vein the thread will be closed and possibly removed.
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  9. #9
    Curious, I got mine via justflight, but the rudder seems to operate correctly in FS9 at all airspeeds. I usually find that looking forwards instead of backwards improves the chances of avoiding hitting the scenery, either in the virtual skies or on the road.

    I struggle to see how providing free repaints constitutes a relationship, but thanks for the link as there were a couple I had missed before.

    Thanks for the repaints too.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by P38man View Post
    Jankees - you have a "relationship" with the developer - conflict of interest ? Should you have not pointed that out?
    Are you/have you ever been paid ?
    http://www.sibwings.com/freeware.php


    I guess you don't use rudder pedals or the rudder at all ?

    At slow speed the rudder pedals reverse ?

    How could you not notice ?

    Seems surreal, no ?
    yes, I have a relationship with Sibwings, I have painted their aircraft. But I have done so for a lot of developers, and always for free.
    The only time my paints were included with a payware package was with the Lysander, and even there it was stated that I was not paid for it.
    So my relationship with all developers is based on free will, if I like an aircraft I paint it, for free. I have had a few offers to be paid for my paints, but have always refused, and I hope to keep it that way.
    You call yourself P38man, any P-38 paint you're looking for? I always wonder why so many people hide behind an alias, something to hide perhaps? Is there anything we should know? Just kidding..

    The Safir is still one of my favorite GA aircraft, and no, I do not pay any attention to the position of the rudder pedals when flying. I tried using real pedals when flying and hated it. I'm usually on the outside anyway, but still never noticed the Safir rudder, unbelievable but true. That's what you get when you check whether your lines are lining up I guess....

    This one was a nightmare to paint, but it is still one of my all-time favorite paints, for any aircraft:

    You can find most of my repaints in the library here on the outhouse

  11. #11
    Unfortunately this discussion makes almost forget that the problem is actually only at SibWings team.
    I really wonder if the beta-testers didn't notice this or if SibWings was not able to correct this.
    For me it means a very poor support!
    There will be no solution, we have to cope with that.

    Dieter

  12. #12
    I tried to replicate any control issues, but everything seems to work fine for me..

    The only thing I see are the rudders on the 'Swedish camo' and 'Finnish AF' models which do not move when viewed from the VC, but when I need the rudder I usually prefer to see what's happening in front of me so that's no big issue to me. It has no effect on the actual controls.

    Of course there are a lot of variables:
    -What FsX and windows version do you use?
    -What version of the Safir do you use that have this issue?
    -What controller(s) do you use, and is all the software up to date?
    -What realism settings do you use to fly?
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferry_vO View Post
    I tried to replicate any control issues, but everything seems to work fine for me.
    E.g. if you do a 'flat' turn with the rudder only, the Safir turns to the left with full right rudder and vice versa.

  14. #14
    The short test movie in the above mentioned thread doesn't work anymore.
    http://forum.sibwings.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=905
    (Saab_91_Safier_SR_Test_01_HD720.wmv)

    To avoid that we talk at cross purposes , please try the following:

    Takeoff with Safir FSX (any model), take a stable flight attitude without autopilot, go to outside view, look on the rudder of the aircraft from behind.

    Now ONLY move the rudder left (ailerons and elevator remain neutral). What happens? The rudder goes into the left position. The plane turns left for a very shot moment, very shortly after she moves to the right and stays

    It's vice versa pressing the right rudder pedal.

    This problem is confirmed by Chris Brisland, one of the beta-testers!
    (Chris Brisland, aka "Dances with paintbrushes", aka EagleSkinner)

    Dieter

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by bstolle View Post
    E.g. if you do a 'flat' turn with the rudder only, the Safir turns to the left with full right rudder and vice versa.
    Hello everyone.!
    Randomly find this thread, yea in deed the Safir rudder behaviour is incorrect, sorry for that no idea how did we miss that for so many years :\... However default Mooney have same bug
    Working on Pitts still, but hope soon we'll find some time to tune this.
    Here is fast-fix, try it. Do not forget to backup old files first.
    Attachment 51814

    Andrey

  16. #16
    Great to hear from you Andrey and good to know you are still working on the Pitts, hopefully the long Siberian winter will give you time to work! I'll try the fix.....something I have never noticed and I have been a 'pro' beta tester for years!

  17. #17
    That was very nice for him to offer a fix. I never noticed the issue before myself. Kudos!

  18. #18
    Hello Andrey,

    All's well that ends well!

    What I see at first glance is the change of value 343 "Rudder Effectivity" in the .air file.
    I changed this on all other Safir types (B,C,D) and the aircrafts behave correctly now when operating the rudder.

    Thanks for providing this correction.

    Greetings
    Dieter

    P.S.
    I suggest to post this FDE correction in your SibWings Safir/forum, too, so that all customers get benefit of this.

  19. #19
    How do you change that in the fde?
    Anneke

  20. #20
    I used an air editor software.
    In my case it's the old "AirEd" by William M. Roth
    -FSX/FS2004 AirEd revised

    http://simviation.com/simviation/?ID...ge=2&mark=5949

    Dieter

  21. #21
    I downloaded the latest installer from Sibwings and I see that value (343) of rudder effectiveness everywhere. Or I'm looking at the wrong things.

    Could you please help me. What exactly did you change.
    Anneke

  22. #22
    Here is a short instruction:

    First you have to save the original Safir .air file you want to change.
    (So you still have the original one in case "things should go wrong")

    Lets start changing SibWings_SAAB_91C_Safir:
    - open the new "safir_debed.air" in AirEd
    - right click on 343 Rudder Effectivity Table
    - Copy to clipboard
    - exit

    Now open "safir_C.air"
    - right click on 343 Rudder Effectivity Table
    - Replace from Clipboard
    - Save
    - exit

    Now you can change the other ones same way.

    Dieter

  23. #23
    Hello guys!

    Uff I didn't expect problem is so burning.
    In deed together with 343 I changed softly "yaw" thread in 1101 section.

    I'm agree Safir FD need some work, but sorry right now another baby takes all my work-time.
    I hope soon to introduce you

    Attachment 51937

    After that we'll invent something with Safir rudders.

  24. #24
    Mr. Tsvirenko,

    Thanks for the stopgap fix for the Safir. Also, the Pitts looks great so far!

    I am curious about the progress on the Antonov An-2 as featured on the Facebook page:
    http://www.facebook.com/SibWings

    Is this still being considered and/or worked on?

    Thanks, and looking forward to seeing more products from Sibwings.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by SeanTK View Post
    I am curious about the progress on the Antonov An-2 as featured on the Facebook page:
    http://www.facebook.com/SibWings

    Is this still being considered and/or worked on?

    Thanks, and looking forward to seeing more products from Sibwings.
    Yes both Cessna 177 and An-2 are still in progress. Their releases are planned in 2012.

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