CFS2 ETO, MTO, CBI, PTO, plus CFS2 Crimson Skies project

[simonu]

Hi Jed, You have noticed the different sims... Il2 , LockOn , strikefighters, Cfs2, etc etc have different pros and cons. You are not the first who has thought "hhhmmm how can I make this better?.... Maybe if I could just....."
I noticed you said

if we ask them nicly

well there are one or two members on this forum who may be more familiar with those who should be asked, I wouldnt know who.
Some might be of the opinion that one should really learn to make the best of what each sim has to offer, if you like fast jets and guided weapons, lockon and strike fighters do that, if you like super accurate flight models its got to be Il2 if you like a sim thats easy to tinker with CFS2 is the winner. I have asked microsoft several times for CFS2 source code or permission to hack the CFS2 dll s. I have to say they were not negative, rather reluctant to reply. The source code is not available, maybe lost or locked up by a deal to sell fsx source code to some big player in the arms trade. As to h@ck1ng CFS2 modules. I have looked into one or two and theres some interesting things going on behind the scenes. How-ever a great deal can be done with CFS2 by simply learning how to manipulate the mission scripting. Mission Builder has some limitations that can be easily got round by hand editing mission files, there are also flight files that can be used to set up cool views of the action not normally accessible to those who are stuck in the GUI. Check out this by the way.

[JEDDRAGON]

I see oh well I guess we'll figure it out some how

[JEDDRAGON]

BTW can I have permission to use your guys Archive for resource and info I might need to see whats needed and whats not

I think what I'm going to do is use your guys stuff and make my own planes and stuff I'll let you guys know when try the stuff i make when i do

[JEDDRAGON]

just to let you now the stuff I had written before forget it I think i know what i need to do :P sorry for that


yeah some time i get like that sorry well I'm planing on making some stuff like Crimson skies, Uires, and some of my own planes to go with it other then that the Gmax resource is gonna happen just need to take my time on this i still need those IL-2 planes :P

[JEDDRAGON]

ok I'm having a bit of a prob it's called lack of money XD I did want to get the IL-2 game but I don't have any money seeing I just wasted it and new graphics card in case your wondering witch one it's a GTS 450 it's a powerful big card if you ever seen it but yeah i got it and now I'm broke for now i can't even buy IL-2: 1946 witch a far more complete version of the game I could get for 4 bucks but with 5.99 shipping but I need to save some money to get it so to get back on track

I think I'll start on Crimson Skies as my project at least in this thing i can make most of the stuff it's uncharted territory for most of the SOH group :P
so any one want to help me let me know other wise I'm going solo on it =_____=#

[Seagull V]

Hello Jed

All the best with Crimson Skies, but don't bail out on CFS2 - still plenty to be done.

I am about to do some serious re-skinning for the Spanish Civil War upgrade and a small list of other aircraft - had to put things on hold for health reasons but I will now have a bit of time up my sleeve to do some things I have been wanting to do for a while. Once the reskins are out of the way will be doing some modelling - have some scenery objects and aircraft that I want to make.

[JEDDRAGON]

ok then thanks Seagull V and good luck with your projects too

BTW their is one other project I could do how for are you guys on the battle of the bulge campaign Jane's WW2 fighters completely focuses on that part of the time period it also has a mission builder and i can edit them or in this case study them so i can add more missions to our game what do you guys think?

let me get a screen shot of the map so you guys can tell me what or where this took place


I also i seen yours I'm gonna DL it to see what i can add


ok just need to know if you have any of this bases and stuff to build in cites of Belgium

also I noted that this game has a really big campaign and missions it also has a mission builder so translating the the missions is some what easy I just need the planes flown in this game but seeing I'm gonna use yours for people to play it faster I just need the airplanes list a few posts back on Jane's WW2 fighters that is all

ok i just looked at yours the only base they have that sounds like part of the city in WW2F map is Bonn? or is it Bonn-Hangelar in CFS1

[JEDDRAGON]

ok i guess i need to ask Rami? for expanding the battle of the bulge campaign right?

also i found a alternative way of getting the Il-2 game now but still will be a wail before you'll get to see the planes cya guys until then

[JEDDRAGON]

mostly because I finally got the game by alternative means <,< >.>

I'll let you guys know when I extract the models soon and I'll update the post

[JEDDRAGON]

ok after looking in to the games resource I can mostly for sure say my collection of resource is complete you name I got it or I can edit it so i can say we do now :cost1: note IL-2 1946 is the almost one of complete set of planes sets of all time it would be if we had permission with for the mods too

my plan now is to convert the P51D-20-NA yeah I'll be starting on the Allies then the Axis just one thing

I've been thinking of the skins set up and I noticed they have a good set too I like Il-2 skins set up but I also like CFS 2,3 detail maybe I could make the void skins they (I got a lot of them too) to match up the look and feel of CFS2,3 skins this dose mean CFS 2,3 skins will be obsolete

or in order to save skin :P should I convert the compatible form CFS3 skins only and then make the rest look CFS2,3-ish? just a thought
I just need to know before I get in working on this.

[Captain Kurt]

Attachment 49598Attachment 49596Attachment 49597

There are a lot of alternative P-51D skins available for CFS2 but I don't see much for CFS3. IL2 skins layout does not offer any big advantage over the CFS2 layouts that I can see, either. It's the graphic compression algorithm that determines how sharp the skin details appear, not the model. We can use a less "lossy" algorithm (extended 16 bit or extended 32 bit) for CFS2 planes but it affects the frame rates in play. Finally, the detail in the finished skin is almost 100% up to the painter in all cases no matter what sim the model is in. See the above pics of the CFS2 Alphasim P-51D or the Rebuffat Bf109 - how much more could you get from IL2 or CFS3?

IMHO I still think your time would be best spent working on adding LODs to improve the Alphasim models rather than re-inventing the wheel. Just my 2 cents.

[Seagull V]

There's plenty of life left in the paint-schemes area - some of the old models look 200% when a new skin is done for them - just depends on how much time you want to spend spreading those paint pixels around. Can be issues with the way that a model has been mapped - but there are some options for that.

Major advantage for Il-2 was a model for the version of aircraft with a base template that could be added to. Something I would love to do for CFS2 but there is only so much time in the day.
Then there is the issue with different models and various users who prefer a particular model - P-51D Mustang for example, and some of the more accurate models not being frame rate friendly for CFS2.

Would be nice to set up several squadrons of Mustangs escorting hundreds of B-17s with heavy Luftwaffe attacks !!!!!!!!!!!!

[Captain Kurt]

There's plenty of life left in the paint-schemes area - some of the old models look 200% when a new skin is done for them - just depends on how much time you want to spend spreading those paint pixels around. Can be issues with the way that a model has been mapped - but there are some options for that.

Major advantage for Il-2 was a model for the version of aircraft with a base template that could be added to. Something I would love to do for CFS2 but there is only so much time in the day.
Then there is the issue with different models and various users who prefer a particular model - P-51D Mustang for example, and some of the more accurate models not being frame rate friendly for CFS2.

Would be nice to set up several squadrons of Mustangs escorting hundreds of B-17s with heavy Luftwaffe attacks !!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm working on that right now - The 354th FG in WWII campaign. :salute:

I can't get quite that many into a mission , but even if it was possible you couldn't see most of them. The formations were spread out over many miles and the pilots could only see what was within their local area. The rest of the formations were beyond their eyesight.

[JEDDRAGON]

I see well I guess i need to rethink and explain it better :P

first I'm trying to make a open source file for you guys if I had the alphasim model I would but i don't and if you guys do have can you show me

because seeing i don't have it I'm gonna go for an alternate source then :P the thing is i seen the IL-2 models they are more complete then most of the planes I've seen here they have lod and everything to make a complete plane

I'm guessing if I can't improve something get something ells to replace it :P and improve that

in order to save work XD I got the models for IL-2 seeing I can get you guys a good model to improve to your liking :P so for the skins

I guess we could make them open source model to have be universal set of skin sets but that might make the file heavy so i was thinking of using a common source files we could figure that out later

I as also thinking we don't have to throw away everything the DP, air files, and other stuff can still be used

so I don't have to work that hard to help you guys I'm just converting the model seeing we don't have a open source file and getting permission is a pain right now so I'm going with stock stuff :P what you guys think of my plan

guess if I have these two choices
replace a model with you know you can fix any time or get alphasims model by asking them to give us the source file and improve that?
I guess it's still a 50/50 deal XP

not sure what ells to do other then make Crimson Skies :P

[Captain Kurt]

I'm thinking there would have to be permission from the authors in either case. No point in getting into legal issues.

I know IL2 used to be extremely protective of their models and would not even allow third party models to be developed for the game unless the third party developer went through a formal approval process with Ubisoft first. I don't know if anybody wound up getting permission. Maybe that is all different now, as that was some years ago.

Alphasim was taken over by another company but released all of their old CFS2 models to the public realm as part of that event, so we might have a better chance getting their permission and the source files, if they still exist.

Maybe the best thing to do would be to ask both of them and go with whoever gives permission? Either way what you are trying to accomplish is a GOOD thing.

[JEDDRAGON]

good idea too so guess we need to ask those two
but I like to add well I know for fact the an offline IL-2 forum known as SAS has been updating modding type airplanes form Il-2 1946

I guess we would also ask them a few things like their perssion to use their mods and did you ask Ubisoft gave you permission to do this?

if the not we I guess we have to fall back with the first two questions

here the forum
http://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php?topic=4.0


so do you know how to contact the new alphasims guys I'm gonna need it I'll ask SAS my self and see what they say if the say no to both or either one then I'll ask Ubisoft and alphasims next and see if either one will help


ok I asked SAS already just need to get Alphasims to help us later on if I get a reply form either one will see who to use

[Captain Kurt]

All of the freeware Alphsim models are here http://www.easyfly.co.nz/Freeware/

The new company is called Virtavia. Their website is www.virtavia.com but it appears to be down when I just checked it now. I hope it is just a server problem and they have not gone out of business. Anybody know?

Post script : Searching posts here shows there has been some Russian scammers hijacking the URL and it has not been fixed yet. One of Alphasim's model builders is a member at SOH so maybe you could send him a private message and ask him about permission and or source code. - his tag is fsafranek

[JEDDRAGON]

alright then I will :salute:


alright I have asked away now we just need to see who will help us then :P

[JEDDRAGON]

ok never mind I think you guys have these in your archive files XP sorry for that

[JEDDRAGON]

Hi Jed No, we dont have official permission to modify IL2, but the company seems to tacidly allow us to, since we do bring a lot of attention and Longevity to their products, and IL2 is no longer their prime commercial Flight Sim Product. I do not know if they would take kindly to their stuff being used for other simulations. You'd have to check that out yourself. As for planes that are made from scratch, of which there are very few, you'd have to contact those authors individualy. I myself do not do 3d at all, I am all thumbs. Best of luck with it! Piet

so dose this mean we should ask Ubisoft still? and the modders form SAS then? what do you guys think of this it's the first answer I got

the way he said it made me think a little bit :P

[Seagull V]

Hello Jed

Personally I think we should all (all meaning everyone who still is involved with CFS2 and not just a few individuals as there is a lot of knowledge on how the old girl works out there) should utilise the source material that has been freely released, then use our group reference materials to build new models. The other sims can certainly be used as inspiration on what we want to achieve, but we should be careful not to tread on other peoples feet in the process. When I was looking at EAW I was thinking of a you scratch my back and I will scratch yours - probably also a good approach to take with SAS 1946 and Oleg Maddox from Il-2 if we head down that path.

Enthusiasm such as yours is definately needed - along with looking at how we can do things - there may be a few new tricks that the oldies can learn with the new programs that often crop up.

We should also be having some fun and enjoying this hobby as well !!!!!!!!!!!!

[JEDDRAGON]

so you think we should ask to help them in return to help us type deal sound like a good enough plan to work with

but if that fails so far I still got the FSDS files just gonna be a bit hard to convert them into Gmax type files throw milkshape :P

we also got the some stock planes for CFS3 and jane's ww2 fighters I don't think Jane's is around any more I need more info for that to know their ok with that their modding community is still around and have updated the planes as well using our stuff before so we do have someone here that might have a relation with that I have talk to one of them before in order to get the import/export files for the 3Dz files

still for IL-2 1946 he said no they don't need permission yet and sort of way because it's we a fan art group and the let us

so thew questions are now

Q: should stick with stock models and risk getting hammered my copyright?

A: I say no to that we must ask them to see if the say yes


Q: should we ask the modders instead?

A: I would say yes since he said they made them form scratch that could be good seeing it's their stuff not obisoft's nor is the modds for janes WW2F EAW might be hard though


or Q: should stick to the our community and see what we can past together ourselves

A: I would say yes but as a last resort though or it might be better to make alliances with the other modder's form SAS IL-2 1946 and WW2F, maybe
even EAW


last option answers all of the above


Q: should we explore all are options and make sure we get a real answer and see what were we stand on this?

A:mostly that what we most likely are gonna be doing right now :P



either way in the end we still meed more people on this I sure is heck can't do this myself i see that now


what do you guys think in this mess of options then is the bast course because I don't give up that easily on something

and yeah it's becoming more fun just trying to fight for resources XP



BTW I still got our resource to fall back on though

[JEDDRAGON]

well if we can't get use resource form il-2 or any other place because of copyrights and all we can do study it to make it be a far better plane we might as well stay with that i say we should model our planes in gmax but the way that il-2 dose it in FS or CFS format like i think Seagull V suggesting with out taking anything then what we're gonna need a team then

still i would go and just use the models themselves to cut us some time still the way Piet said it i think we can use them just make sure this stays freeware and give credit to use ubisoft for the files but i'm not sure about that to think on this cause even i'm running out of ideas now

[Stratobat]

Hey Jedd,

I still got the FSDS files just gonna be a bit hard to convert them into Gmax type files throw milkshape

You can convert FSDS .fsc files for use in Gmax by using CVA Converter.

Regards,
Stratobat

[JEDDRAGON]

Stratobat sorry to say but I know that already XD


gee it's been a week too long into this and I'm really just getting no where with this at least I'll ask the modders later then to see if i can use their planes just need their permission right might well ask the members of SAS and WW2F if we could use their mods soon then

still think that will be somewhat less wast of time if I had a way to use the stock planes with out all this copyright thing and permissions so far very few people are willing to help us here as much as i know I can't make a move with out any real help here

do guys think it's safe to assume that ubisoft won't object to us using their stuff then after what that guy said "IL2 is no longer their prime commercial Flight Sim Product." still the part of where he said "I do not know if they would take kindly to their stuff being used for other simulations." is making me hesitate to do anything

I mean so far I ready to go for it just need your guys ok on this or should just ask obisoft and wait and see a bit longer