SOH Team Project - Grumman Tracker, Trader, Tracer

[Milton Shupe]

Thank you Duckie; I will take me one of them blue boys :-) Beautiful work, again!

[Duckie]

Hey Milton, that worked like a champ! I never noticed the "Select item..." commands before you posted that screenshot. I left "Shift+E" in the "Select exit" command and entered "2" in the "Select Item 2" command and I was good to go. Voila, bomb doors pop right open. Thanks again for your help.

That's great news, TARPS! Glad you got it worked out.

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" Today, 00:56Milton Shupe
I understand your frustration. Here is what I do to get around the key sequence issue.
I just assign the select item 2 to a different key sequence to avoid the delay."
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Milton thanks for the suggestion. I will definitely set up that alternate in my key file. :salute::salute:


Steve

[Duckie]

I see the Dutch navy returned the rear part of the rudder.

Thanks very much Steve for another masterpiece!

Cheers,
Maarten

--Unlike my brother who still has my hedge clippers he borrowed last summer!!

You're welcome Maarten. Glad you like it. :salute:

--Thank you Milton. And thanks for the great mapping job. Makes painting the "Grumman 7" a real pleasure. :salute:

Steve

[SSI01]

SSI01, when you have a spare moment please do me a favor and check your S2F-3 and see what happens when you hit Shift+E+2.

Shift+e = main exit door + ladder deploy/retract (rather smartly, too)
Shift+e+2 = nothing
Concord nose visor button on joystick = MAD boom + belly radome + pole antenna on underside extend/retract

Here's a photo of the aircraft I used:
Attachment 70045



BTW I don't have a texture for the belly radome on my S2F-1, it's plain dark grey.

[SSI01]

Guess it would help if a 2nd exit were listed in the config file - now no problems w/shift+e+2.

I have noted something else peculiar, though -

I can press shift+e and the main exit opens/closes; I can also press shift+e+1 and the same main exit opens/closes. Is there possibly some ramification of this that is confusing the TF-104s re: which canopy to open when shift+e+2 is pressed?

[Milton Shupe]

Guess it would help if a 2nd exit were listed in the config file - now no problems w/shift+e+2.

I have noted something else peculiar, though -

I can press shift+e and the main exit opens/closes; I can also press shift+e+1 and the same main exit opens/closes. Is there possibly some ramification of this that is confusing the TF-104s re: which canopy to open when shift+e+2 is pressed?

Shift+e is the same as shift+e, 1.

Shift+e, 2 say select item 2. (you must release shift+e, before hitting 2)

You can help yourself fight the MSFS issue but reassigning the key sequence so it does not depend on the pause between shift_+e and 2. If any event (like a streaming controller not quite centered, or toe brakes held on, or any repeat event) interrupts the pause between shift+e and pressing the 2, it will not work.

It is best to reprogram that key sequence as I posted above on previous page.

[Duckie]

BTW I don't have a texture for the belly radome on my S2F-1, it's plain dark grey.

Hi SSI01, which S2F-1 are you referring to? If it is the Dark Sea Blue VS-36 version, the radome was "unpainted" or with a sealant which allowed the natural color of the Fiberglas housing to show. It is the same color as the AEW radar housing atop the fuselage aft of the cockpit. This was true with many of the earlier -1s. Some were later painted to match the DSB color when they went through depot maintenance. So, "grayish brown" is the correct color for this model.

Note: my latest repaint of a VS-20 Stoof is that same color radome, which according to photographs is also correct.

Regards,

Steve

[vonernsk]

Milton,

Love your Grumman 'Stoofs'. Have noticed on your recent S-2F1 model that there appears to be a clear area on the leading edge of the port wing that looks very much like a wing-light cover. No lights appear from this area. Perhaps it forms some other function?

Rgds
and thanks again
Mal

[Milton Shupe]

Milton,

Love your Grumman 'Stoofs'. Have noticed on your recent S-2F1 model that there appears to be a clear area on the leading edge of the port wing that looks very much like a wing-light cover. No lights appear from this area. Perhaps it forms some other function?

Rgds
and thanks again
Mal

Interesting question. After looking through many pictures and drawings, I finally found the answer. It's actually quite embarrassing at this point. :-)

Unfortunately, my 3-view drawings did not show this light and only 3-4 pictures I have show it with any clarity. My apologies.

[fliger747]

Amazing, hadn't heard of that earlier. If I run into a friend who was a LSO, will ask him about it!

T

[Duckie]

Milton,

Love your Grumman 'Stoofs'. Have noticed on your recent S-2F1 model that there appears to be a clear area on the leading edge of the port wing that looks very much like a wing-light cover. No lights appear from this area. Perhaps it forms some other function?

Rgds
and thanks again
Mal

Hello Mal, if I may, I'll respond to your question. With regard to the E-1 Tracer and the S2F-1 Tracker, which are the ones I provide the original textures for, the lens to which you refer is "painted" on. It appears on all variants and I have seen it identified as a landing light, as well as signal lights. I have a close up of a CS2F lens which appears to have three lights under the lens.

Anyway, my reasoning for including the lens was that anyone who wanted could add a light(s) at this location if they chose to. And, even if no light is added, the lens gives the correct appearance for the model.


Regards,

Steve


Edit: Milton was just too quick!

[SSI01]

Shift+e is the same as shift+e, 1.

Shift+e, 2 say select item 2. (you must release shift+e, before hitting 2)

You can help yourself fight the MSFS issue but reassigning the key sequence so it does not depend on the pause between shift_+e and 2. If any event (like a streaming controller not quite centered, or toe brakes held on, or any repeat event) interrupts the pause between shift+e and pressing the 2, it will not work.

It is best to reprogram that key sequence as I posted above on previous page.

OK Milton, will pick a single key rather than a combo to assign to second event. Problem, a minor one to be sure, will be to remember that single key when I want to open the subpanels for some aircrafts' main panels.

[SSI01]

Hi SSI01, which S2F-1 are you referring to? If it is the Dark Sea Blue VS-36 version, the radome was "unpainted" or with a sealant which allowed the natural color of the Fiberglas housing to show. It is the same color as the AEW radar housing atop the fuselage aft of the cockpit. This was true with many of the earlier -1s. Some were later painted to match the DSB color when they went through depot maintenance. So, "grayish brown" is the correct color for this model.

Note: my latest repaint of a VS-20 Stoof is that same color radome, which according to photographs is also correct.

Regards,

Steve

Thanks, I already found the VS-20 scheme and am fixing to install it shortly. Will use the radome texture from it in the VS-36 one.

Question - obviously, S2F-1s had the football above the cockpit, S2F-3s didn't - what was the purpose of that upper radome? Was it for air search in front of the aircraft, the lower radome being for surface search?

[Duckie]

Thanks, I already found the VS-20 scheme and am fixing to install it shortly. Will use the radome texture from it in the VS-36 one.

Question - obviously, S2F-1s had the football above the cockpit, S2F-3s didn't - what was the purpose of that upper radome? Was it for air search in front of the aircraft, the lower radome being for surface search?

Your last question contains the answer to your first question! ;-)

Btw, the VS-20 radome is the same as the VS-36.

Cheers,
Steve

[vonernsk]

Milton and Steve,

Thanks very much for your quick replies. Milton, as usual, has killed the question dead with his attachment. Steve, thanks for including the lights cover and giving us the option to utilise or not.

I have seen fixtures similar to the 'Stoof's' on other USN a/c, the Skyhawk and Phantom spring to mind. What an aid to the stressed out LSO on a heaving slippery deck, blackout conditions and a queue of low-fuel a/c landing on! Quick confirmation of good gear, hook and approach angle.

Love trapping with the Stoof. The flt model is great. Steve, your latest skin for VS-20 is superb.

Again many thanks

Mal

[stansdds]

The USN has used approach lights on aircraft since at least WWII, I know Corsairs had them beginning with the F4U-1. As far as I know, the basic operation is always the same and the LSO would see red if the aircraft was too low, yellow if too high and green if it was on the glide slope.

[hawkeye52]

VS-20: another home-run, Duckie! Thank you. :salute:

- H52

[SSI01]

Mention was made a short time ago by someone on this forum about no weapons being available for drop from either S2F - wasn't there an option available for use on the KBT P-3 that allowed an airborne torp drop from the aircraft? If so, could that be adapted to this aircraft? (without doing anything improper, of course).

EDIT: file name "p-3ctorp.zip" at FlightSim.

[Mick]

Mention was made a short time ago by someone on this forum about no weapons being available for drop from either S2F - wasn't there an option available for use on the KBT P-3 that allowed an airborne torp drop from the aircraft? If so, could that be adapted to this aircraft? (without doing anything improper, of course).
EDIT: file name "p-3ctorp.zip" at FlightSim.

Way back when David and I modeled the Martin T4M Torpedo Truck we had a launchable torpedo. It worked the same way as those jets (can't recall which planes, but there were at least two of them) that allowed you to blow the canopy and eject the pilot.

The torpedo or the pilot didn't really drop to the ground. In fact, they really didn't leave the aircraft. They were retractable items attached by invisible struts that were so long, you wouldn't notice the items tagging along far below the plane. When you toggled the release switch they would reverse their "drop" and return to the plane. That part didn't look realistic, of course, but you didn't have to watch.

The sound set can include appropriate sounds. When you launch the torpedo from the T4M you hear the clunk of the rack releasing the fish, then you hear the splash of the fish hitting the water. On those jets, you heard the canopy coming off and the seat firing.

Since David was the 3D guy for our planes, I can't tell you the mechanics of setting it up. I just know it can be done. Whether it can be done with a reasonable amount of work to a model that's already finished is another question.

[SSI01]

I have that Torpedo Truck in my hangar - I'll have a look at what you were describing.

After making that input yesterday, I revisited the torpedo launch animation and was struck by the supersonic torpedoes that are contained therein. By that I mean if you launch them at the recommended 1,500 foot height, they release from the aircraft (as a pair) then race ahead of the aircraft in a downward arc, entering the water a good half-mile in front of the aircraft. Lowering the release altitude to about 150 feet helps a lot - at least they enter the water just about below the aircraft - and there is a pretty good detonation a short time after. I tried to keep launch speed fairly low - about 130KIAS.

[TARPSBird]

A shame it was not in the game plan for the MS fltsim geeks to include the object attachment capability from CFS2 in FS9. All this stuff like torpedoes, drop tanks, cargo pallets, skydivers, etc. would have been so much easier instead of having to use animation tricks.

[Milton Shupe]

EDIT: Sorry, I posted the "removed comment" in the wrong thread. :-)

[Mick]

... By that I mean if you launch them at the recommended 1,500 foot height, they release from the aircraft (as a pair) then race ahead of the aircraft in a downward arc, entering the water a good half-mile in front of the aircraft. Lowering the release altitude to about 150 feet helps a lot...

Oops! We must've had a typo in the recommended release altitude! In fact the aerial version of the Mk.14 torpedo had to be launched at around 100 feet, not much higher, or it wouldn't survive the drop!

Of course, if you launched it properly and hit the target it typically wouldn't explode anyway, but the Navy didn't figure that out until well into WW2.

Anyway, the idea with the T4M was that if you launched at around 100 or 150 feet, the torpedo would drop below the surface of the water and disappear. We never thought about or tested at higher altitudes, so never noticed how the fish swings way forward of the plane. We did, in fact, make a point of being sure that from the proper height it would hit the water below and slightly behind the plane. And we avoided the temptation to have a wake and a visible explosion ahead of the plane, since an airplane, even a clunker like the T4M, is faster than a torpedo.

[SSI01]

No sweat. You know more about it than I, but I suspect we may be talking about two different torps here. The KBT torp, for use w/the P-3, is a modern airborne torpedo, grey in color, that sometimes launches singly, and sometimes in pairs (unpredictable); it comes out so incredibly fast it's hard to make out details except for the color. I can tell you it points straight down, not at an angle. It does fly (fast!) in a forward arc in front of the aircraft - nose down - to the water. The KBT torp's recommended launch height is indeed 1,500 feet (also described as the standard patrol altitude for the P-3), which I don't understand; that's a terrifically high altitude at which to launch a torpedo, you'd think you'd launch it while you're down low following your last MAD pass. For this thing to take off at the speed it does after dropping from 1500, it must be rocket-assisted.

PS - I know those jets - they're Canberras - I've got them in the hangar.

[pfflyers]

If I'm not mistaken, and I'm sure someone with more knowledge will correct this if I am, modern torpedoes are equipped with small parachutes to slow and stabilize them as they drop. You can see this when the Soviets drop one in the movie "Hunt For Red October".