Sandy Bridge..stutters

[Felixthreeone]

Anyone have a solution for stutters on a 4.8ghz Sandy Bridge setup? I would be willing to bet no one has seen stutters on SB except me. My bad luck, I guess... or maybe I should have bought a GTX580 instead of the 560Ti OC that i did?
Is it possible that my OC is bottlenecked by my cheapo gpu? Maybe my ram? Hmm. Since I followed all of the proper guides (nick's install etc...) and OC'd last, maybe that is the issue? Maybe all the blue screens I got enroute to 4.8ghz corruped something?

specs:
gigabyte p67a-ud3-b3 mobo
gigabyte gtx560ti oc
corsair vengeance 8gb kit (2x4gb) 9-10-9-27 2t
haf 922 case
corsair h70 hydro cooler
seagate barracuda 1tb hd
w7 64bit

....yes, all drivers and bios up-to-date. OC is prime95 stable for 24hrs. HT is off. I have tried EVERY cfg tweak.... and none at all. Bojote cfg, external limiter, yada yada yada. Stutters. They seem to minimize, at 26 or 27fps locked. REALLY???? You have to be kidding me. 26 or 27 (to me at least) looks like 26 or 27. 50, on the other hand, is quite fluid (but stutters like Helen Keller)...
Maybe 8 weeks or so isn't enough time to have been testing/tuning/flying/etc... And now I am wondering If going back to my trusty FS9 isn't the way to go...
BUT if this is a hardware issue, then Someone maybe has had the same experience? I searched, and every SB post I see is someone raving about how badass the performance in FSX is. I'm not seeing it. So, any input from my favorite FS community is appreciated.

[kilo delta]

Which chip are you running...the 2600k?

[Felixthreeone]

Which chip are you running...the 2600k?

..Yes, sorry for the omission. i7 2600k.

[kilo delta]

Hopefully TXnetcop can help out here,I've no experience of the SB chips just yet (though I do have plans on a very similar setup to yours). The GFX card should be more than adequate depending on the resolution that your run on your monitor(s).That OC does seem pretty extreme...but so long as temps are in check and it's a stable overclock then you should be fine. What is the speed of the RAM..1600mhz? Have you tried different GFX drivers and does the issue only occur in FSX (ie. have you tried any other games)? Finally, what PSU are you running? Hopefully the answers to these questions can help to diagnose your issue.

[Felixthreeone]

Thank you for the reply, kilo delta. To answer your questions, the ram is 1866 but i can't get it stable at 1866, throws errors in prime within minutes. So, I am running it at 1600, and it passes with no problems at that speed.
The power supply is a PC Power & Cooling Silencer MkII 750watt. As far as the drivers for the GPU, I have tried all whql drivers from 266.66 on up to the current 275.3ish one.
The overclock itself was 24hrs prime blend stable, and my temps never went over 72C at any point. I assume based on things i have read that the temps I saw in prime were well below any dangerous range. I also ran memtest on the two sticks and they passed with no errors.

...I do think i should add that as per nick n's guide I am using msi afterburner for fan control, and nvidia inspector to control 3d settings. Also of note, i was running cinebench to get an idea of performance when I first started oc'ing; the scores were very, very good, as was the performance of fsx. But recent runs of both tests in cinebench are showing me a significantly reduced score, and I have no idea why. So, here i sit, trying to narrow my issues down to fsx or hardware. Short of nuke and paving and starting from scratch, I am at a loss for narrowing down the culprit...

[AndyE1976]

Where were you flying when you got the stutters and have you defragged lately?

With a 4ghz i7-960 and a GTX 580, I still get a slow down in places like London X and Manhatten X, but in normal Orbx stuff it's fine.

I think one of the problems is that FSX just isn't designed to use more than 3gb of RAM so even with a monster system it can't take full advantage of it. I have 12gb RAM and still get OOM exceptions sometimes.

My one suggestion would be to try turning down your OC to maybe 4.3 or 4.0 and seeing whether that makes any difference. Tuning is often more about balance than outright speed of a single part.

Good luck

[bennyfsx]

I had a similar problem with a very similar setup (i5 2500k @ 4.6 and a GTX570). The solution for me, after much testing and recording of results, was slightly counterintuitive.

I set the internal frame lock to 24 (no other number seemed to be as effective - you may need to tweak/test but it'll probably be in this ball-park). Then I set the nvidiA inspector settings (I am using 275.33 drivers) as per NickN's standard recommendations, with one exception: anti-aliasing at the 64x4V12 setting. That bit was the eureka moment.

This delivers me exceptionally smooth flight with all settings maxed out except water (2xlow) and vehicles (medium airport vehicles, NO cars - even 3% creates a stutter on my tests - and 20/20 boats).

It may seem disappointing to peg at what sounds like a fairly "low" frame rate but I assure you the result, if rock steady, is immersive. And the power of the rig is clearly still being harnessed owing to the maxed settings (I also run 100% UT2 traffic, UTX with intersection night lighting at 25%, GEX, and REX with 4096 clouds out to unlimited distance) and of course the spectacularly good AA setting. No other rig would deliver even close to 24fps in these conditions.

I hope it works for you. I am no expert but I think some of the tweaks which have taken off in the recent past may already have been overtaken by the latest top-end hardware. In particular I think saturating the video-card with the AA helps to stop it out-pacing the frame creation. Maybe it's like adding weights to Ussein Bolt to keep the harmony!

The above is the only set-up that works for me. Both of the frame-limiter freeware programs give me stutters all the way to 60Fps, and the in-game limiter stutters at 60 as well as at unlimited. (Actually I can use up to 45 with a default aircraft but as I rarely do this I keep it pegged at 24.)

The only thing that drags me down a bit is flying a very complex a/c like the JS4100, which gives me a fluctuating 20-24 in severe weather. But I can tolerate this as it's a huge ask of the system, it only really happens at climb/cruise when there is massive cloud, and may anyway improve with SP2.

Good luck with the above. I really hope you sort it out. Be patient and you should find the sweet-spot. Then be sure to reward those hours of work with a disk-imaging program (I use O&O) so that you will NEVER lose it when you find it. That is hugely good value for your money/time.

Good luck and let me know how you get on.

[Felixthreeone]

Thanks for all of the info. After pouring over OC'ing guides, and forums, etc...Seems as though 26 is my 'sweet spot'. At least, for where things are right now...some time in the not too distant future, I will probably wipe out my current install and re-install windows and everything again...but apply the things i have learned through trial and error the first time...

[txnetcop]

Thanks for all of the info. After pouring over OC'ing guides, and forums, etc...Seems as though 26 is my 'sweet spot'. At least, for where things are right now...some time in the not too distant future, I will probably wipe out my current install and re-install windows and everything again...but apply the things i have learned through trial and error the first time...

You might try taking your overclock down to 4.0 as some of the SandyBridge units we built and tested at 4.5 and above had some real trouble with certain games. We don't use FSX as a benchmark but I think it might apply in this case too. It certainly is worth a try. Also make sure your frames are set to unlimited with high computer clock speeds.
Good luck
Ted

[Felixthreeone]

After more experimentation, it seems as though I *may* have found the culprit...

Apparently, the newer nvidia drivers don't respond to the '8XS' AA setting the same as the older drivers; Found a thread on another site linking performance issues in FSX to the new drivers and AA settings. So I am currently experimenting with alternate AA modes in nvidia inspector. Definitely a noticeable difference in stutters and choppiness with other AA settings, and I will post which ones work best for my combo as soon as I am satisfied that the image quality/performance ratio is a good one:salute:

[Felixthreeone]

Well...maybe I spoke too soon...seems that regardless of which AA mode i choose, even default, i get some degree of stutter. I also have noticed that it is largely unrelated to sliders in FSX. For example, i can turn up water all the way, autogen, etc..and I get a stutter. If I turn water down all the way, and autogen down all the way, i still get a stutter. Regardless of locked frames or unlimited, or where I am. Now, I run Ultimate traffic II at 50%, and have the internal FSX ai sliders at 20%, with cars off. So, considering the level of power my computer supposedly has, should I just live with it?

...One very interesting thing I noticed as well....when I first got the computer set up, and had things running relatively problem free, I began overclocking. I ran Cinebench to test score the system and see if there were improvements, which there were. BUT...If i run the same tests now, my scores have dropped considerably. I am wondering if that is hinting at a possible hardware failure??

[bennyfsx]

Have you installed Java somewhere along the line? Perhaps to power an external FPS Limiter? If so, you need to go into java settings via control panel and disable the auto-download function. This one is a silent killer until you eradicate it ...

[FlameOut]

Thanks for that tip bennyfsx,
How in the world did you discover that! I use the FPS Limiter and I'd had a little trouble with my AIcarrier program. It somehow or another led me to re downloading Java.
I've not had a lot of time for FSX over the past 2-3 weeks but I knew that something was giving me horrible "little snags". This pretty much nipped it!

[bennyfsx]

Pleased to have been able to help! I've been there myself and "wasted" many long nights tinkering!

[Felixthreeone]

I di have java installed, but I have the auto-update feature disabled....

...I have experimented now with various AA modes, and found that some are better than others for *reducing* the stuttering I am experiencing. But...I seem to have a much more pervasive and repeatable phenomenon occurring with the stutters...

...Seems as though i can get the stutters 'minimized' when flying relatively low. Not gone, but reduced. In test flights, however, i am noticing a MASSIVE stutter that seems to get worse as I climb. For example, at 2500, there is a little stuttering. If I climb to 10,000ft, and do a roll or pan around the VC looking outside, there are HUGE scenery stutters that make the scenery look like a slideshow...where the terrain actually appears to be 'jumping' from frame to frame. Not a frame-rate issue, but a crippling stutter. I have tried down-clocking my CPU, and that hasn't helped. HT on or off, doesn't seem to help either.

I am definitely approaching my breaking point with FSX, and starting to regret ever leaving my nice, stable, stutter-free FS9. Spent a boatload of $$$ on this comp, did a lot of research before installing anything, and followed all the guides. So, not sure what to do now. It is not a smooth, fluid experience at all. I read a lot of posts from people that have relatively basic systems that *apparently* have none of these issues....or maybe they are talking out of their asses. I guess it is time for a complete re-install, and no addons. Just vanilla FSX and a few addon planes. Then i will wait for MS Flight, and hope it is a finished product...

[stansdds]

Keep your hard drive defragmented too. Last week, FSX started crashing on me. It had been a while since I had defragmented my drives and they were pretty bad. FSX was smoother and stable after a good defrag.

[txnetcop]

I have tried duplicating your stutter issue at TechCorp by using basically the same set-up you have and cannot get FSX to stutter. I have run it at 3.8, 4.0, 4.5 and no stutters period! I even have Orbx scenery loaded and A2A's B-17 and all the scenery in Orbx at max. Frankly, I m stumped-the differences here should not have made that much difference. I have all sliders set to the full right. Smooth as butter! avg frame rates are 44 (I have frame rates set to unlimited)

gigabyte p67a-ud3-b3 mobo(refurb)

Intel SandyBridge 2600k CPU

EVGA DS SuperClocked 01G-P3-1567-AR GeForce GTX 560 Ti (Fermi) 1GB 256-bit
(we didn't have a Gigabyte)

Corsair Dominator 1600mhz 8-8-8-24 (did not have Vengence in the lab)

Cooler Master 932

corsair h70 hydro cooler

Western Digital 1GB Black Edition WD 10002FAEX 64mb cache hard drive (we did not have any 1GB Seagates to test with)

w7 64bit

I will ask around and see if anyone else is having issues with the SandyBridge setup!
Ted

[Felixthreeone]

ThanksBenny, and Ted. After a bit of trial, error, and testing, It seems as though what Benny asked me to do has had the most significant impact so far. I normally leave my X52 Pro, rudder pedals, and Pro flight yoke (+additional throttle quadrant) all plugged in at the same time. The additional quadrant is plugged in through the yoke hub. So, I unplugged the yoke setup, and flew a test flight with frames locked at 30. Lo and behold, the stuttering was GREATLY reduced. Not gone, but noticeably reduced. So, I unplugged the X52 and plugged in the yoke, and got similar results.

...i then proceeded to try unlimited frames, which returned an average of 45-50fps, but with much,much more pronounced stuttering. The test flight was over ORBX PNW at midday, in the Xload FA-18D at around 250-400ktas. test flight is a straight-out departure into a slow spiraling left-hand climbing turn up to fl200.

Ted has essentially proven that I shouldn't be having the stutter issue..

I double checkedinspector settings, and the AA is set at 8XS as per nickn recommendations...I tried both HT on and HT off; With HT on, the stuttering is worse than with HT off. Also, I used the affinitymask=14 when I had HT off. No other tweaks...only other cfg mods are disablepreload and highmemfix....and I have wideviewaspect set to 'true'. So, any more input would be appreciated. And I thank you guys very much!!

[bennyfsx]

Very frustrating. Another one that did for me once was game controllers. Stutters went when I uninstalled them and test-flew by keyboard. And they didn't return on reinstalling (while system not overclocked for the install). Have you tried this?

[Felixthreeone]

I will give it a try! thanks!

[bennyfsx]

I would try the following next. Make a backup of your cfg file, delete the original, load FSX and run the default flight to rebuild it. Then reapply only the tweaks you mentioned in the last post, plus this single Bufferpools entry: RejectThreshold=131072. I do find that I need that one. Also, be sure to try both the 8xS and the 64x4v12 AA settings. The higher one will crunch your frames toward 25-30 but can still be smooth if all else is well.

Try it locked at 25, 30 and 45fps. Ignore any stutters for the first minute or so of flying in each - even when switching in-flight - these are inevitable as the settings bed down.

PS Top timesaving tip if you've not tried it already. Save a copy of each of these display settings (25, 30, 45) under recognisable file names. Then edit these files (explorer -> documents -> FSX files) to restore any non-default settings: Eg I use 4096 clouds, and LOD 7.5. Then if you want to change your FPS lock in-game just load the relevant settings file without touching the sliders. That way you won't keep losing cloud resolution, etc. (I have also made further copies of these files with the water set to low so that you can quickly test if your water is causing a problem.)

Also, try to avoid tuning solely in an area full of your add-ons. I have found it helpful to break out and test in hong kong or somewhere where my FSX was running close to default. At least that way you'll know everything's fine without the load.

Finally, are you running anti-virus? Be sure to disable the FSX folder from scanning. Also, any weather engines acting as browsers need to be allowed unhindered access...

Good luck. Let us know how you get on.

[Felixthreeone]

Ok...quick update:

...4 different drivers, all of which returned the same results: stutters. The driver that produced the fewest was the 270.61 driver. So, that has been the basis for my next few tests

...Tried HT on, and HT off. Noticed a slighty more pronounced stutter with HT off. Strange, considering most people I see say turn it off to avoid thread collisions, and run a higher overclock...

...went to a couple tweaks; Namely, turned wideviewaspect back to false. helped a little

...Applied various affinity mask settings; both with HT on and HT off. Seems that the stutter is reduced most significantly with HT on, and an affinity mask setting of 244.

...Also tried bufferpool settings. All settings I tried were poor, except for 'usepools=0'..that one seemed to help a tiny bit.

...Did a number of test flights; Over default areas as well as addons such as orbx PNW. Noticed NO difference in stutters between addon areas, and default ones. That is really, really odd. They both suffer from a micro-stutter that simply will not go away.

....messed with the sliders a lot, as well. No discernable difference in stutters or microstutters regardless of slider settings.

....Also tried different AA settings in inspector, along with the pre-rendered frames setting and nothing really had a positive impact. Only negative, as I went to lower settings, no change. Higher settings caused worse stutters.

So, I am basically looking at acquiring an EVGA GTX 580, in the hopes that my Gigabyte GTX 560Ti OC card is simply a piece of crap.....hopefully, If Ted or Benny or someone else has input that can solve this, I can save $500.

Thanks in advance!

[txnetcop]

Matt the 560ti has the power to run FSX very well. You could have a bad card have you tried it on any other games or simulators?

[bennyfsx]

Agreed. There's no need to shell out any cash yet. Your stutters in default areas show that something else is holding things back, and that will likely remain the case with a slightly faster card.

There are more things to try yet. I'll send a checklist of things to try in a bit (when the kids and wife have no use for me!).

First off though, do you have a soundcard in there? If so, get that out - the integrated sound is fine and cards are known stutterers in FSX.

[Felixthreeone]

Thanks guys for the replies!

Ted: No, have not tried anything other than FSX, since the only reason this PC was purchased was for FSX...

Benny: Just using the integrated sound now, do not have a dedicated sound card