Question for Mission Builder Gurus

[Ghostrider]

Is it possible to make an AI seaplane to land on the water? If so, how?

Thanks,

[MaskRider]

No MB guru, but,

yes, it is possible. I forget just exactly how- I think by having it ditch and give it way points that slowly decrease its speed and altitude. Pretty sure that is how I got it to work- years ago. Is ditch a command in MB? If not then there is something close to it. If not then maybe just decrease its altitude and speed to zero- slowly.

But yes it can definitely be done.

You need to play around with it a bit- especially if you have a particular spot that you want it to come to rest.

[bobhegf]

You will have to edit the mission using wordpad.The reason being you for some reason at least in using my MB I can only get the AI to 167FT minum using waypoints and the speed is limited to the AI aircraft so that you can`t get it slow enough to land using waypoints.I sure wish it could be done ,then we could land AI AC on carriers and stop them.

[Jagdflieger]

I've not ever tried it, but I bet you could set up your airfield.dat file with the landing point data as if it were a normal airfield. Then you could set the final waypoint for the plane to "Land" at the appropriate time and place.

If you try it, let us know if it works.

Update: I tried setting up an airstrip in the water off of Tulagi in the Solomons, but it doesn't show up in the MB for some reason. A second try with it on the beach worked out as far as it showing up in the MB preview window. Oh well, it was a thought.

[bobhegf]

Jag,it should show up even in the water. I have done it that way before. Go back and check your airbase.dat info.

[Ghostrider]

Thanks guys,

I haven't set up an airfield in the water yet - that may be the answer - yes, MR, there is a ditch command in MB - I think my biggest problem so far is that I have only used 2 waypoints, a start, and a ditch with speed and altitude set to zero, hand edited in the .mis file. I haven't stepped speed down gradually with multiple waypoints. I may also try to set the A/C as infrastructure in the water. What I am trying to do is to get a ditched or ditching B-29 in the water, and then spawn some of those nice new crewed liferafts around it, maybe popping some smoke/flares for a B-29 Dumbo/SAR mission. Maybe a Gato and a Sampan in the area, each interested in the crew. I have taken the contact points from a PBY, and pasted them into the aircraft.cfg for this "ditchable" B-29, so she'll sit in the water nicely.

[Jagdflieger]

Thanks Bob. I think that it should work, but for some reason my CFS 2 isn't recognizing anything on water. I'll keep working on it.

[Pen32Win]

I used the Ditch WP command in my old AF=Midway Campaign. Put PBY's down on the water no problem at Laysan. Bring them down to 164', drop the speed down to absolute minimum, then you next WP is the Ditch WP. Works like a charm.

[Cody Coyote]

You can have a plane, AI or player, take off or land from any point on the planet, land or water. I cover that in detail in Chapter 15 of my Mission Building Handbook. The problem is that you may not get what you're looking for when using an AI plane.

AI behavior is inconsistent at best. AI Seaplanes should land "normally" on the water. The biggest problem you'll probably have is the plane overrunning the landing spot. In my experience that hasn't been too bad with seaplanes.

Trying to get an AI land-based plane to land (ditch) on water is trickier. Just setting up the aircraft to land on the water will result in the AI plane lowering its gear and landing on the surface of the water the same as if landing on solid ground. The AI plane won't sink into the sea, but will roll across the surface of the water just like it was on land. Replacing the contact points with those from a seaplane will probably result only in the AI plane starting in the air with its gear down, then landing on top of the water as I described. The pitch of the plane may vary, but it won't sink to the fuselage as you would want. At least it never has in any testing I've done so far. Also, the AI engines never shut off, even after the plane stops.

Another odd quirk is that the AI planes will taxi right through any infrastructure in the area. So if your AI plane "ditched" close to land, it would roll over the surface of the ocean and then roll right through any ships you had set up or right through a dock or wharf. Should it reach land, it will roll overland, up and down hills, through buildings, etc. until it decides to stop. I've even seen stock AI planes land on water, pitch over onto their nose, then run along the ground with their prop spinning into the ground for miles without stopping or showing any damage. As I said, AI behavior is inconsistent at best.

I like the idea of your mission. I've done something similar in a campaign but stretched it over two missions. In the first mission I set up a goal of ditching safely at the end of the mission. If the player accomplished that, he advanced to the next mission where he was now flying the PBY to rescue the fliers from the plane he ditched the mission prior. In that second mission I used the liferafts and signal flares, then required the player to land within a specific distance of the rafts, wait a prescribed amount of time, then takeoff and return to base.

If you or anyone else figures out a way to get AI planes to belly-land on the ocean, turn off their engines, and stop in a reasonable length I think we would all benefit.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[Pen32Win]

CC;

I've done it with SBD AI's Formations no problem. In my "Damn Gagets" mission you fly as Lt. Holmberg and lead the Dive Boming Attack on Soryu after Max Leslie looses his bomb. Later in the mission Holmberg (Player) and Leslie (AI Formation) had to ditch next to Astoria, which had stopped just after Yorktown got hit by the Vals. I got Leslie to ditch within a couple of hundred meters of Astoria every time. Of course you have to end the mission before you sink and go Boom.....

[Cody Coyote]

Pen - "sink and go Boom..." That is the problem. I build triggers and events to end the mission after the ditch and prior to the "Boom". It is a good test of your flying skills trying to set her down in the surf.

[Ghostrider]

My results so far: With ditched modified B-29 (PBY contact points) as infrastructure: gear is down, about 3/4 of wheels submerged, engines are stopped. Plane sits too high in the water. Tried changing vertical dimension of contact points to no avail.

With modded AI B-29 flying through five waypoints, hand edited in .mis file, ending with a ditch command speed below stall and altitude 50, plane go boom. Actually, it just disappears with no boom - kinda wierd.

I have had the plane ditch with gear up, but "bounce" back up into the air and keep flying, then ditch again, ad infinitum.

Perhaps an "airfield" that is just the right depth below the water's surface?

No joy yet, but still working on it. Thanks for all of the ideas!

[bobhegf]

One thing you can do if you are flying a player aircraft and have to ditch is to make sure the prop is stoped and all switches are in the off position before you hit the water or land.As for the AI, I have seen them ditch and do a good job and i have seen them land damaged on land wheels up and some wheels down damaged and make it. Inorder to see this, first make sure you give all AI AC the command to land some place.The reason for this is that the CFS2 engine will, if the AI anything moving including AI AC once they have reached there last waypoint have no place to go will return to there starting waypoint, that is the reason for the land command for all AI AC.NOW, if you have all the AI landing on a carrier or at a base and you happen to see some friendly AI orbeting an area go over, fall in with them and chances are you will see an AI AC down eather ditched or landed be it on its wheels or belly.When this happens I go back to base and land but I let the mission run for awhile.After awhile the AI that you saw over the downed AC will come back to base and land.NOW, if you see enemy AI AC doing this RUN in another direction.They tend to have a real nasty attitude toward you if you get to close.Maby some of this info will help,anyway I take all this into consideration, along with other info, when building any mission.Fellows you can get any AC infrastructure object to show up on its belly.

[Pen32Win]

Pen - "sink and go Boom..." That is the problem. I build triggers and events to end the mission after the ditch and prior to the "Boom". It is a good test of your flying skills trying to set her down in the surf.

Exactly CC, that's what I was refering to, I also incorporate Event Areas so you have to ditch in a general location in some missions. Keeps the player from ditching next to an enemy DD and getting credit for a completed mission.