Munich Air Disaster

**Ralf Roggeveen** · April 25th, 2011, 07:57

Last night British terrestrial TV showed an interesting drama United, about the 6 February 1958 Munich Air Disaster when eight members of the Manchester United soccer team and 14 other people, including 2 aircrew, lost their lives.

This is a picture of the actual aircraft in happier days:

Airspeed Ambassador G-ALZU of BEA (British European Airways), "Lord Burghley" in their Elizabethan Class. She had been chartered to carry the team, Club officials (notably Manager Matt Busby) and journalists from a European Cup match which they'd just played in Belgrade, Yugoslavia. Munich-Reim was a refuelling stop and the aircraft crashed on its third attempted takeoff in snowy conditions, having never left the ground.

The TV drama (on BBC Iplayer if you can get it) was not specifically a reconstruction of the crash, although it seemed well-simulated, including showing how those propliners shook their passengers about on takeoff, accident or no accident.

Seems interesting to reconstruct in (retro) fs9, this being the aircraft (actually G-ALZS William Shakespeare) at that airport (EDDM, though the Cal Classic version is 1961) in nice weather.

Easy takeoff showing view of the airport and city beyond.

In more realistic weather:

In reality slush on the runway appears to have been a major factor, though the conditions were not thought to excessively bad at the time. Icing, presumably on the wings, was also blamed.

Pilot's view of RW25:

The unfortunate Captain Thain, a survivor, was blamed with pilot error 'for not ensuring that the upper wing surfaces were clear of ice before taxiing out'. He was not finally exonerated of blame until a 1968 inquiry which took drag caused by the slush into account. None of this was shown in the TV drama which showed the accident from the point-of-view of passenger Bobby Charlton.

This 1954 plan is interesting, showing how wide the aircraft was for the time; it's also remarkably low. G-ALZU 'ran off the runway and went through the boundary fence. After crossing a small road it struck a house and a tree, skidding for a further 100 yards before hitting a wooden garage containing a truck. The garage burst into flames and the forward section of the aircraft slid for a further 70 yards before finally coming to rest.' (Charles Woodley, History of British European Airways 1946-1974).

Of course it is easier in fs9:

I thought it was a very good play which, without being a real documentary, raised several dramatic issues and showed how different that time, over half a century ago, was from today.

One thing it might have reminded the modern audience of was the dignity in grief of our grandparents' generation. Nobody felt obliged to leave piles of useless flowers outside United's Old Trafford stadium - as no doubt they would in our touchy-feely 'Look at me, I'm upset' era. They were better, braver people who went through a lot of suffering in an admirable way which we might do well to emulate.

If such a thing is possible, I would like to dedicate this thread to the 24 souls that were lost on 6 February 1958, and also to the memory of Captain Thain.

***Sunny9850*** · April 25th, 2011, 13:15

Hi Ralf,

I have tried to find the BBC show but so far no luck at getting it. A nice way to bring the story back to the rest of us in any case.
I agree with your point about folks being from a different mold in those days. Whether or not laying of flowers is too much or not is of course a personal thing but I would guess that there was much less in form of lawsuits associated with the accident than would be the case today.

The captain in the end is almost always holding the bag to some degree. I would question the three takeoff attempts .... based on the old Einstein phrase pertaining to trying the same thing over and over expecting a different result.

Of course FS doesn't replicate the effects of winter ... having flown with ice on my wings (once) and from a slush covered runway (twice) I would venture a guess that the negative effect of the ice outweighed the slush.

The airplane must have at some point achieved reasonably fast speeds or the crew would have aborted the run again...but it did not lift off the runway much if at all. That would lead me to believe the airplane simply did not develop sufficient lift....and that is the ice on the wings. Not because of weight as much as the disruption of air flow.

The C-210 I had my little ice-capade in had barely a few pounds of rhime ice on it's wings.....and we just managed to get her on the ground in one piece. And at much greater than normal indicated air speed.

Cheers
Stefan

**Ralf Roggeveen** · April 25th, 2011, 21:53

Hi Stefan,

Think they've set up Iplayer so you have to be in the UK to access it or something.

Interestingly Sir Matt Busby's son is angry at the way his father was portrayed, always in suit & hat (often smoking a cigar), never in a tracksuit on the pitch, though he was famous as one of the first real trainer/managers. Bobby Charlton was just 17 at the time and part of the magic of the drama was that everyone knows he went on to be in the England team that won the World Cup (with Busby as national manager) eight years later.

You were lucky in your 'ice-capade' and Einstein's point is worth remembering! In '58 G-ALZU tried to get airborne twice before de-planing all the passengers who went back to the terminal. They then spent more than an hour working on the aircraft, don't know whether the runway was getting attention - presumably other aircraft were using it at the time. The accident was on the third attempt after they'd re-boarded. I noticed that the engines were never running when you saw passengers go on board in the drama, so wondered if they'd used a real static survivor? I'm not aware of any, but would travel quite far to get a look at it if there is one.

**Wild Bill Kelso** · April 26th, 2011, 06:54

I'd like to contribute some comtemporary images:

G-ALZU just a few minutes prior to the fatal takeoff run.
Note the slush on the ramp, although the wings appear not too icy...

The cut-off tailplane crashed into a shed, setting it on fire.

Airport personnell attempting to rescue the seriously injured F/O.

Review board investigating the crash site.

Cheers,
Markus.

**AndyG43** · April 26th, 2011, 07:09

Originally Posted by Ralf Roggeveen

Think they've set up Iplayer so you have to be in the UK to access it or something.

Certainly the case for TV programmes, although I understand BBC radio programmes aren't restricted in the same way. I actually watch very little TV 'live' these days, as I prefer to watch the HD version on I-Player.

Originally Posted by Ralf Roggeveen

Interestingly Sir Matt Busby's son is angry at the way his father was portrayed, always in suit & hat (often smoking a cigar), never in a tracksuit on the pitch, though he was famous as one of the first real trainer/managers. Bobby Charlton was just 17 at the time and part of the magic of the drama was that everyone knows he went on to be in the England team that won the World Cup (with Busby as national manager) eight years later.

Yes, he's not happy apparently; but this drama was looking at Jimmy Murphy and Bobby Charlton, not an in-depth documentary of the whole affair. It was absolutely riveting viewing with David Tennant, as usual, mesmerising.

**Wild Bill Kelso** · April 26th, 2011, 09:10

Originally Posted by AndyG43

... It was absolutely riveting viewing with David Tennant, as usual, mesmerising.

David "Dr. Who" Tennant?
That's nice!

**racartron** · April 26th, 2011, 10:19

Speaking of Dr. Who, did y'all catch the season 6 premier this past weekend?

**AndyG43** · April 26th, 2011, 10:51

Originally Posted by racartron

Speaking of Dr. Who, did y'all catch the season 6 premier this past weekend?

Oh yes!! Brilliant opener, bodes well for the rest of the series; and a truly scary monster, in best Dr Who tradition - two, if you include Richard Nixon!!

***Sunny9850*** · April 26th, 2011, 15:26

Yep UK access only for the vids. Too bad would have loved to see it.
And yes I did catch the doctor on BBC America...thank god for TiVo.
:ernae:
Stefan

**Ascua02** · April 26th, 2011, 15:45

Hello Chaps
For what i read in the accident report, the problem was one of engines overboosting on take off (therefore creating fluctuations in the MAP due to overrich mixture in some cylinders), that's what happened in the first two runs and they interrupted the take off when the fluctuations started, that tended to happen in relatively high airports (Munich, 1700 ft) seemingly one of the solutions was to increase the throttle veeeeeeery slowly.

As Ralf says they then returned to the terminal, de-boarded the passengers and the flight crew had a conversation with the resident engineer who did agree with the procedure. The only other option was to re-tune the engines (in other words overnight stay). They then decided to do it again increasing the throttle even slower.

The problem came when during the last take off run, the plane hit the slush that was on the runway just before reaching V2, which in effect slowed down the aircraft and made it unable to reach flying speed. Unfortunately, all this happened well past V1 and therefore, the aircraft was unable to stop before the end of the runway, the rest as they say is history...

For the record, it is thought that ice in the wings was unlikely to have caused the problem, as the Ambassador had burners that send hot air inside the wings. Also the aircraft had to be refuelled in Munich using the gravity feeds (as for technical reasons they could not do it through the pressurized intrados port) and the refuelling crew had no problems ambling around the top surface of the wing.

Last but not least there is one Ambassador being restored (already restored?) in the Imperial War Museum at Duxford, but I do not know its state as I have not gone there for a (too) long time, last time the fuselage seem to be OK.

Hope you find the information interesting

Saludos

**NickB** · April 27th, 2011, 00:07

Originally Posted by Ralf Roggeveen

Bobby Charlton was just 17 at the time and part of the magic of the drama was that everyone knows he went on to be in the England team that won the World Cup (with Busby as national manager) eight years later.

Just to clarify, Alf Ramsey was the England manager in 1966. I don't believe Matt Busby was ever the England national manager.

Wolves was Man U's next game which was postponed until April. Wolves won 4-0 and won the title. Man U won only one game after Munich that season and finished 9th. The next year they finished 2nd!

***cajj1*** · April 27th, 2011, 01:04

Originally Posted by NickB

Just to clarify, Alf Ramsey was the England manager in 1966. I don't believe Matt Busby was ever the England national manager.

Busby was Scottish. Although the current England manager is Italian and one of his recent predecessors is Swedish I do think that a Scottish England manager would be a step too far

**Ralf Roggeveen** · April 27th, 2011, 01:48

Apologies to those Football managers. I was only a small kid at the time, first aware of the (disappointing for England and Holland didn't even qualify!) Mexico '70 World Cup.

Thanks for those fascinating photos Markus, very informative.

Yes, David Tennant played Billy Murphy the Coach who rebuilt the team while Busby was still recovering from his accident injuries. They actually reached the final of the FA Cup that year (though didn't win), pretty remarkable. A Scottish actor playing a Welshman with an Irish name, if you can get your head round that one. Matt Busby was played by even more Scottish Dougray Scott. (Personally I prefer the current Dr Who, Matt Smith to David Tennant's version, but still... going a bit OT there!)

**AndyG43** · April 27th, 2011, 04:05

Originally Posted by Ralf Roggeveen

(Personally I prefer the current Dr Who, Matt Smith to David Tennant's version, but still... going a bit OT there!)

Looks like other people agree with you; Matt Smith has become the first Doctor Who actor to be nominated in the role for the BAFTA Best Actor award - when you consider the calibre of some of the actors who have filled these shoes previously (Hartnell, Troughton, Pertwee, Baker, Eccleston and Tennant) then his nomination is even more impressive. Mind you, he's up against Jim Broadbent, who deservedly wins everything!!

A Scottish England manager? There is really only one man of sufficent clout, and I believe he's busy in several competitions at the moment - and busy accusing referees of bias. Now, an English England manager, wouldn't that be fun!!