QUESTION for THE 'PAINT GURU'S'

[WND]

Good Morning:

I've recently got into re-painting aircraft for FS9 (altho I'm not good enough yet to go public) and I'm having an issue with my lines looking jaggart / waving when looking at the finished product in 'spot view' - especially when I get 50 to 75 feet away from the aircraft or greater.

I use PhotoShop 10, I save my PSD files in DXT-3 mode, no bitmaps, HOWEVER I realized last night that I'm painting in RGB / 8 bit mode in Photoshop.

Could that be where my issue is?

In Photoshop - under "Image \ Mode", I have a choice of color - which I have RGB checked off - and then I have choices of 8 bit / 16 bit / and 32 bit.

My question is: Should I be painting in 16 bit or 32 bit or does it matter?

I appreciate any and all comments, hope ya all have a great day..

Bill

[JoeW]

Good morning , Bill......... How is the air there this morning? I lived in P'cola for years .......

I use Photoshop also but I save in psd format with all the layers. Look in the FSX SDK in the Terrain section .. there is a great tool in there . ImageTool that will open the psd file and if you click on Image\ Format, then choose DXT5. Wait until it stops then File\ save as . choose DDS . you will have it like you want it. I have copied the ImageTool.exe and pasted it in C:\ in it's own folder and run it from there.
Try that. ...... I think you will be happy.

[WND]

JoeW Good morning , Bill......... How is the air there this morning? I lived in P'cola for years .......

Good Morning Joe:

Well, It was 36 this morning. Been down to the mid 20's Saturday and yesterday morning. There forecasting rain for tonight and tomorrow..

I use Photoshop also but I save in psd format with all the layers. Look in the FSX SDK in the Terrain section .. there is a great tool in there . ImageTool that will open the psd file and if you click on Image\ Format, then choose DXT5. Wait until it stops then File\ save as . choose DDS . you will have it like you want it. I have copied the ImageTool.exe and pasted it in C:\ in it's own folder and run it from there.

Well, I haven't got a clue of what you just told me!!!!! (only working on my 2nd cup of coffee tho) lol

It does sound to me tho that you use FSX - I'm using FS9.. HOWEVER, I do save my PSD files with all the layers (finally learned how to do that - at the beginning I saved everything and lost my layers), then I re-open the psd file and save it as a DXT-3 BMP and I still get crappy looking paints - from a distance!!!!

Yet - like all the AT-11 DXT-3 paints - they all look great!! So it's got to be on my end somewhere - something I'm not doing quite right...

Anyways, thanks for the reply, I appreciate it..

Bill

[JoeW]

Attachment 29319

Ok ..... Didn't know what sim you were doing this for.
You are correct in saving them as DXT3. FS9 will crash with a DXT5. Do this .... Open the original with Image tool . on the right panel you will see if it has MipMaps or not. Try to save your skins the same as the original. That panel will also tell you if what format they are. If it's a 32 bit or what. they will work better if all are the same format.

[WND]

on the right panel you will see if it has MipMaps or not. Try to save your skins the same as the original. That panel will also tell you if what format they are. If it's a 32 bit or what. they will work better if all are the same format.

Thanks Joe...

Ahhhhhhhhhh, making a little more since now!!!

When I open a BMP file, DXTBmp will also tell me the same info however I have been opening 32 bit files and saving them as DXT-3 - maybe that's where I'm going wrong!!!

I just had a gut feeling after realizing I was painting in 8 bit that I wasn't getting enough pixels into the paint so it could look decent from afar!!

I have been experimenting this morning and found out that I can't use things like my 'paint bucket' when I set up PSD for 32 bit, and for some reason I can't paint in 16 bit PSD and re-open it under DXTBmp to try and save it as a BMP file - I get an error message... ALTHO, I think I like painting in 16 bit - it appears to give me better lines!!!! lol

I suppose I could paint without the 'bucket' - just using a brush - and see how that works!!!!!!!!!!!!

More experimenting I guess!!!!!!!!

Bill

[RobH]

Hello Bill...

I have been painting in RGB mode at 8 bit for years. It should do just fine.

Since you are using dxtbmp, try saving your file in Extended 32 bit 888-8. It will be saved as a larger file, but will give better and clearer results than DXT-3. I think you already said you aren't, but be sure that the include mip maps check box is off.

One last thing, this is just a guess, but do you know if the plane you are painting is Multi LOD? If so, then yes your work will look worse the farther away you get from it. Just a thought.

Hope I made sense, lol.

Brian

[JoeW]

Try enlarging the graphic to maybe 2048 or 4096. you can sharpen it a bit and maybe that will help make it more crisp. just before you save that final time you can bring it back to 1024.
Make sure the alpha stays with it during this.

[johnh_049]

if it's your lines looking jagged, be sure to use antialiasing. that will smooth out the lines.

[pilottj]

It is a good idea to use layers in photoshop, use the layer styles-stroke feature to create outlines for your stripes or curves. use a blank layer to merge with your styled layer, then use the blur feature to blur the jaggedness a little.

Good Luck
TJ

[RobH]

Try enlarging the graphic to maybe 2048 or 4096. you can sharpen it a bit and maybe that will help make it more crisp. just before you save that final time you can bring it back to 1024.
Make sure the alpha stays with it during this.

Joe,
Wouldn't that defeat the purpose? Usually if you shrink it down that much, then it makes everything blurry, even if you try sharpening it. Maybe you know a trick that I dont :salute:



Bill,
If you get a chance, try posting a screenshot of what your seeing, that could help a bunch.

[JoeW]

Not necesserarly ... I do it all the time and you don't lose much when you drop down. you gain detail. Don't ever merge layers .... ImageTool will do that for you. Load the psd and save to the format you want ...
or need.

[RobH]

Not necesserarly ... I do it all the time and you don't lose much when you drop down. you gain detail. Don't ever merge layers .... ImageTool will do that for you. Load the psd and save to the format you want ...
or need.

Ok, you got me curious now. I am going to get Image tool and check it out. Thanks Joe!

Brian

[WND]

Well Good afternoon everyone:

Go out to do a couple of arrons and come back to lots of mail!!!! lol

Brian:

Since you are using dxtbmp, try saving your file in Extended 32 bit 888-8. It will be saved as a larger file, but will give better and clearer results than DXT-3. I think you already said you aren't, but be sure that the include mip maps check box is off.

One last thing, this is just a guess, but do you know if the plane you are painting is Multi LOD? If so, then yes your work will look worse the farther away you get from it. Just a thought.

Attached you see some pics of the issue I'm having. Actually 2 ways...

The left engine cowl / nacelle is saved in DXT-3 and the fuselage I saved in 32 bit (888-8) and their is quite a difference. reason for 4 pics - I zoomed in 1 click at a time so you all can see the difference..

johnh_049

if it's your lines looking jagged, be sure to use antialiasing. that will smooth out the lines.

John H - I will make sure that is checked 'on' in Photoshop - I actually thought my video card would take care of that but apparently not..

Thanks to everyone for their reply - I appreciate it.. I'll keep experimenting with this thing - hopefully with everyone's help I'll eventually figure it out!!!! lol It just gets a little frustrating when you spend so much time doing something that you would like to share with others - and the end result looks like crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bill

[JoeW]

One word here .,.... If you have multi graphics in a paint ... try to do all of them in the exact format. This alone can cause some hazy textures. If you have to write down what you use for one so you can dupe it in the next one. Don't mix formats in one paint.

I said above that I never merge layers ..... I do if I'm doing something with a lot of repeats like rivets. I'll do one layer with several on it and duplicate that layer. I do that untill I have 4 or 5 like I nedd and then merge layers so I can copy that.

[WND]

JoeW One word here .,.... If you have multi graphics in a paint ... try to do all of them in the exact format. This alone can cause some hazy textures. If you have to write down what you use for one so you can dupe it in the next one. Don't mix formats in one paint.

Hey Joe:

I don't know exactly what you mean by multi graphics in a paint.. Like I said earlier, I'm new at this and constantly learning!!!!

I did some more experimenting - found I couldn't find anything referencing 'anti-aliasing' in Photoshop - so I went to my video card and maxed it out.. I also re-saved everything in 32 (888-8) bit and it appears I hit upon something!!!

The pics below is at the 'default' distance when FS9 loads in and it appears the lines are a lot better than earlier versions.. I'll keep working on it tho..

Bill

EDIT: Sorry for the 2 of the same pics... Actually these pics don't do justest - the airplane in FS9 looks much better..

[WND]

Hello Bill...

One last thing, this is just a guess, but do you know if the plane you are painting is Multi LOD? If so, then yes your work will look worse the farther away you get from it. Just a thought.

Brian

Brian - I forgot to answer this question earlier: First of all, I don't know what LOD means - thus I really can't answer your question!!!! All I can say at this point is it's the F7F-3N 'fusen_t' file that Mr. Shupe put out a week or so ago for us to play with!!!!!

Bill

[JoeW]

Hey Joe:

I don't know exactly what you mean by multi graphics in a paint.. Like I said earlier, I'm new at this and constantly learning!!!!

.

If there are 2, 3, or 4 1024 graphics (Sheets)(Not really sheets but .....) to the exterior paint scheme. Sometimes you have only on .... but others have as many as 4 ....... 5 is a rarety.

[flybike]

Try enlarging the graphic to maybe 2048 or 4096. you can sharpen it a bit and maybe that will help make it more crisp. just before you save that final time you can bring it back to 1024.
Make sure the alpha stays with it during this.

I am sorry but I have a bit different opinion.
Always paint in exactly the same resolution as you are going to use for the actual texturefile.
Never shrink or enlarge a painting.

We simply cannot shrink nor stretch a single pixel, without ending up with something wich is of lower quality than the original.
Painting at high resolution and making it 1024 at the end of the process can be done within limitations.
Small details we painted at 4096 simply disappear at 1024.
Painting at 1024 , stretching it to 4096 to fiddle a bit with it and than shrinking it to 1024 ???
I would not wrap my fish and chips in it.

Scaling textures up and down is a "no go" for a real serious painter i.m.h.o.



Leen de Jager

[flybike]

Hey Joe:

I don't know exactly what you mean by multi graphics in a paint.. Like I said earlier, I'm new at this and constantly learning!!!!

I did some more experimenting - found I couldn't find anything referencing 'anti-aliasing' in Photoshop - so I went to my video card and maxed it out.. I also re-saved everything in 32 (888-8) bit and it appears I hit upon something!!!

The pics below is at the 'default' distance when FS9 loads in and it appears the lines are a lot better than earlier versions.. I'll keep working on it tho..

Bill

EDIT: Sorry for the 2 of the same pics... Actually these pics don't do justest - the airplane in FS9 looks much better..

When we are making repaints , the result of our work will NOT be influenced by our videosettings.
It might only influence the result YOU see on YOUR machine ONLY!!!.

Anti-aliasing is just a setting in Photoshop,
This means lines can be drawn without jaggies.
The paint-program smoothes them out for you instantly.

http://www.mccannas.com/pshop/pshop3.htm

Cheers

Leen de Jager

PS

It might be a good idea to go into the Photoshop-tutorials for a day or so.
Your reward will be problemless fast painting in just a fraction of the time you are used to spend on painting now.
Believe me I have been there. (years ago )

[WND]

When we are making repaints , the result of our work will NOT be influenced by our videosettings.
It might only influence the result YOU see on YOUR machine ONLY!!!.

Good Afternoon Leen:

WELL, I have made them look better to me anyways!!! I save them now in 'extended 32 bit' and I adjusted my slider on my video a notch higher and it made quite a difference..At least I have to move back quite a ways before the lines start getting raggard!!!

[QUOTE=Anti-aliasing is just a setting in Photoshop,
This means lines can be drawn without jaggies.
The paint-program smoothes them out for you instantly.[/QUOTE]

I haven't found this setting yet in Photoshop - but I'm looking!!! The program and painting is new to me so I'm learning every time I crank it up!!!


[QUOTE=It might be a good idea to go into the Photoshop-tutorials for a day or so.[/QUOTE]

I agree - just haven't had much time lately to do that!!


Anyways, thank you very much for your response and input - I appreciate it..

Regards;

Bill