Breguet 693 & 695

[JapLance]

Yesterday I did have my very first experience with FSDS.

I had never before had contact with a 3D model program, except once a few years ago that I scaled down a motorbike model for another game. No polygon touching, no parts, no hierarchies, I hardly did anything else than selecting the whole bike and pressing a couple of menu options.

Last morning I did something with polygons. Something very simple, having in mind the wonderful works the 3D modelers do around here, but yet very rewarding:



That took me a whole morning... several bad attempts due to the lack of experience. But I enjoyed it very much.

Then I remembered that there was a plane in CFS2 that I always liked a lot, but that was a bit too big in relation to the real plane. And that that plane was available as an FSC project . That plane is Jim Jacobson's Breguet 693, and spent the afternoon and part of this morning learning with it. Scaled it down by a factor of 0.85, added and then changed the bottom wings texture. After a few more changes (for instance, texturing a propeller that had somehow lost the texture) and tests, I converted it to CFS2...

And it worked... what a blast . Minor glitch is that elevators now don't move, but the rest is fine. I tried to change the animation for the bomb bay, currently tied to the cowling flaps animation, but my SCASM attempt was a failure. Absolutely not enough experience, maybe later on I'll get a tutorial somewhere and give it another try.



The question is that I've had a great time with that, and also it made me realise how difficult is to create a plane from scratch. Hats off to all the modelers of FS and CFS that supply us with such fine plane, ship or building models.

And OBIO, give it a serious try, you won't regret it.

[gavinc]

Then I remembered that there was a plane in CFS2 that I always liked a lot, but that was a bit too big in relation to the real plane. And that that plane was available as an FSC project . That plane is Jim Jacobson's Breguet 693, and spent the afternoon and part of this morning learning with it. Scaled it down by a factor of 0.85, added and then changed the bottom wings texture. After a few more changes (for instance, texturing a propeller that had somehow lost the texture) and tests, I converted it to CFS2...

And it worked... what a blast . Minor glitch is that elevators now don't move, but the rest is fine. I tried to change the animation for the bomb bay, currently tied to the cowling flaps animation, but my SCASM attempt was a failure. Absolutely not enough experience, maybe later on I'll get a tutorial somewhere and give it another try.



The question is that I've had a great time with that, and also it made me realise how difficult is to create a plane from scratch. Hats off to all the modelers of FS and CFS that supply us with such fine plane, ship or building models.

And OBIO, give it a serious try, you won't regret it.

Absolutely amazing JapLance - I have played around with that model in FSDS for several weeks (trying to fix the bottom wing textures) and didn't get nearly as far as you have managed in 1 day!

You say you converted the model to CFS2, what version of FSDS do you have? The older version (2.x) can create CFS2 models directly. If you just bought FSDS on the web then they will ship you the latest one by default. If you email them and say that you would like to be able to create models for CSF2 they should send you a link to download the older version (at least they did for me). If you create the model in the right version of FSDS those animation glitches should go away.

Great job

Gavin

[Collin]

Great stuff JapLance, now go back into that canopy model again and into poly mode, find the forward bulkhead poly and highlight it [shift+s]. Now go to poly properties - Edit/poly properties or F2 and change the poly smoothing number to 2.

Now see what it does? You can do this on any poly/s and create panelling or ships plating
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforum...ad.php?t=32289

regards Collin:ernae:

[sc7500]

...Now see what it does? You can do this on any poly/s and create panelling or ships plating: http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforum...ad.php?t=32289...

That video by X_eidos2 is just PHENOMENAL !!!!!!

SC

[JapLance]

Absolutely amazing JapLance - I have played around with that model in FSDS for several weeks (trying to fix the bottom wing textures) and didn't get nearly as far as you have managed in 1 day!

You say you converted the model to CFS2, what version of FSDS do you have? The older version (2.x) can create CFS2 models directly. If you just bought FSDS on the web then they will ship you the latest one by default. If you email them and say that you would like to be able to create models for CSF2 they should send you a link to download the older version (at least they did for me). If you create the model in the right version of FSDS those animation glitches should go away.

Great job

Gavin

Thanks, Gavin.

My version of FSDS is not legal for the time being. I wanted to try the program and see if I could do something with it. It's a 3.0 version+FS2002 makemdl.exe, so after creating the .mdl file I have to convert it with mdlc. Now that I know that I can do something useful with it, I'm considering purchase.

Last night added a texture to the oil coolers under the engines and copied the flaps to the virtual cockpit model. I also re-made the DP file I had long ago done for the original version, re-positioning the gunstations and hardpoints. It now has a rear gunner and French bombs (8x 50Kg).

Great stuff JapLance, now go back into that canopy model again and into poly mode, find the forward bulkhead poly and highlight it [shift+s]. Now go to poly properties - Edit/poly properties or F2 and change the poly smoothing number to 2.

Thanks, Collin.

But I don't want to try to make changes of shape to the model. I think it looks great as it is now. My plan now is to add unmirrored textures to the plane. If I can get something decent that works I'll try to get in touch with Mr.Jacobson for permission to upload.

[Seagull V]

JapLance

I have purchased FSDS from Abacus via one of my local shops (and several other programs as downloads from their website) was very surprised to see it for sale in my area. Have found the Abacus after sales support very good and very helpful (although it sometimes takes a few days for them to get back to you).

Once I have the repaints/upgrades under control I am looking at doing some proper CFS2 designs, hence why I have been looking at whats available with FSDS.
CAC Wackett, CAC Woomera, Fairey Seafox, Supermarine Stranear, Macchi C.205N Orione, Meridionali Ro.37bis, Heinkel He-46, Me 210/410, Kawasaki Ki-64 Rob, SNCASE SE 100, as well as a few ships especially the Bathurst class corvette, are a few I would love to see as current standard CFS2 models with real damage profiles. I am sure Pepe and Colin have quite a few they would like to see as well. Then there are all of the old models that are certainly worth updating. Maybe a few more surface land targets ( I have some detailed plans for a number of AA guns and a large number of armoured vehicles/trucks courtesy my junior days spent plastic modelling )

If there was enough of us we could work on respective projects while being able to bounce ideas around, hopefully with some able bodied support from the FSDS veterans. If we could then also get some cross-pollination going with GMAX, then think of the results.

[Collin]

If you buy from Abacus you will need to tell them that you want version 2.2. Contact Adam Howe and let him know what you need.

Remember.

Don't try to run before you can walk with any CAD program.

CAD programs are not all the same, they each have their own way and formats which makes importing one into the other a pain.

Shipbuilders tend to gather in the naval forum or on skype to swap ideas and models.

Suggested reading and further downloads-

http://www.cfgse.calebflerk.com/

regards Collin:ernae:

[JapLance]

My plan now is to add unmirrored textures to the plane. If I can get something decent that works I'll try to get in touch with Mr.Jacobson for permission to upload.

Slowly learning. After adding the elevators animation, unmirrored textures:



And now a question for the experts: the exported model doesn't include the LOD model. The VC is OK, but the LOD refuses to be included in the final .mdl file. Any suggestions?

If it wasn't possible to add a LOD, I can still get about 35 FPS with a flight of 8 planes against a clear sky. So no big deal, I think.

[Collin]

Do you see those polys on the tailplane that have a shadow in a corner or the flight controls on the main wings with similar problems? Just alter the poly smoothing number and you will see what I was talking about earlier.

So how are you trying to make the LOD models?

regards Collin:ernae:

[JapLance]

Good catch, now I see it clearer. I'll try to fix it when I finish the repaint.

The mapping is 100% new. At the beginning I just created a texture mirrored from the original and started from there, but it was a bit messy, so I decided to start a new template from scratch. After all, it's learning stuff

There is one LOD model included inside the original project (and in the original Jacobson .mdl). But I can't get it to work by now. Another thing I'll leave by now.

[simonu]

LOD models should work if they are included in the partnames and heirarchy
you could add dummy helpers to be the parent part for each LOD and name them in this manner

MyPlane
MyPlane_LOD_100
Fuselage
L_wing
R_wing
Tail
MyPlane_LOD_50
Fuselage
L_wing
R_wing
Tail
MyPlane_LOD_10
Fuselage
L_wing
R_wing
Tail
Or you can work it part level

MyPlane
Fuselage_LOD_100
L_wing
R_wing
Tail
Fuselage_LOD_50
L_wing
R_wing
Tail
Or you can use a pluggin called mdlcommander to capture the DX construction file MyPlane.x
Export the LOD models separately capturing each X file and appending the lod value to its name
MyPlane_100.x
MyPlane_50.x
MyPlane_10.x
MakeMDL.exe can be started with a special switch in a shortcut to allow direct compilation of CFS2 models. More if you want

[JapLance]

Hi, simonu, thanks for the tips. If I can ever decipher them I'll try them .

[JapLance]

simonu,
I found in another thread on these forums your way to make Makemdl.exe export CFS2 models. Worked like a charm :salute:. And also found a workaround to add the LOD model as well :ernae:.

I gave a look at GMAX, but it doesn't look as intuitive as FSDS to me. It's probably a stronger tool, but probably too complicated for a newbie.

On the other hand, I've been trying to send an E-mail to Mr Jacobson to request his permission to upload the results of my experiments with the Breguet, but all three addresses I found on his readme's send back the messages. I seem to remember that he usually posts around here. Can someone confirm that the user Rockster234 is the same person?. I'll try to send a PM as a last resort.

[Rockster234]

Looks like the Breguet is getting an overhaul.........

All of the breguet 693/695 has been released as freeware............so have fun and bring it up to date.

At this point ......You can post it where and when ever you like............

I would say my work is dated and abit simplistic.........I still didn't get the nose/cockpit right

I see some great graphics out there...........but not sure if they are just stills or from some sim???

I think I have seen a version over at combatace for Strike Fighters WOE

Checksix also comes up with some work.....

I would take it out of the Michael Davies post and continue a new thread.......I stumbled acrossed it there an was wondering ?????

[simonu]

Rockster234, Nice to see you are still around; Thankyou for clarifing this issue.

Japlance, I must admit that I participated in the hijacking (is that too strong a word?) of Obio's original post. He had found what he was looking for and it was the talk of FSDS that caused the subject of the thread to drift. So I have moved these posts to this dedicated thread I hope that sits well with all concerned.

[JapLance]

Glad to see that you're still around, Rockster :salute:.

A big thank you for releasing the model in source format. It is beautiful, and I still think it looks great in 2011. Maybe some of the great skinners could give it a try now that the unmirrored textures allow more freedom to replicate real life liveries. I'm doing a Vichy generic skin from scratch, but my skills are far from the good guys:



PD: thanks for separating my posts, simonu. I was also thinking that it was a bit rude to hijack the thread as I did, probably should have opened a new one myself. My apologies to Obio.

[OBIO]

For future reference...please feel free to hi-jack my threads...at least that way there is sure to be something interesting in them LOL!

I am looking forward to updated versions of the 693 and 695. Very interesting aircraft. I have a thing for round motors, and when a plane has 2 of them...it's a great thing. Having these birds with new mapping that allows for more detailed paints will be a great thing.

OBIO

[JapLance]

Well, I think I finished playing with the Breguet, so if anyone is interested in beta-testing it before I upload, please send me a private message with e-mail address.

[Sascha66]

Well, I think I finished playing with the Breguet, so if anyone is interested in beta-testing it before I upload, please send me a private message with e-mail address.

Sent!

[Rockster234]

I had to pop in the 695 model ................

shined it up.............

Got shot down............

[Jaxon]

Do you see those polys on the tailplane that have a shadow in a corner or the flight controls on the main wings with similar problems? Just alter the poly smoothing number and you will see what I was talking about earlier.

So how are you trying to make the LOD models?

regards Collin:ernae:

Collin,
This is a problem I have at several models in my install.
Can this be fixed, once the mdl was compiled?

regards,
Michael

[Collin]

Collin,
This is a problem I have at several models in my install.
Can this be fixed, once the mdl was compiled?

regards,
Michael

Michael, I'm not 100percent on this but I would say no.
Its one of those things that has to be fixed within model before its compiled. Even in fsds you don't know about it unless you go into poly-mode. The compilation will be of the parts and its the info within the parts that makes the polys look different, this bit is lost in the mdl, (something like the Mission Builder inside the cfs2.exe.....). Its there, but you can't grab the sucker.

regards Collin:ernae:

[simonu]

Can this be fixed, once the mdl was compiled?

If you are talking about LOD models, If you can construct separate LOD models in FSDS and export scasm source for each. Then hacking them all together at the scasm level is possible.
If it is smoothing problems, then you are looking to adjust parameters for maybe a single vertex in a list of 20000. Not impossible but...

[jinx]

:salute:This is a very interesting thread. PC Pilot magazine had a tutorial on how to start with FSDS, in 2 issues, I believe. I may have these issues, and will look.

Thanks to all,

Nick