Want some opinions on graphics card matters...

[Roadburner440]

Good morning all. So I have been looking, and toying around with the idea of getting a new card for the tower. At the moment I have a GTX 285 (none of the fancy OC'd models) and am looking to go to the 470, 480, or 580.. I am well aware that throwing processing power at the beast alone is not enough. What has caught my attention though is the amount of shader processors in these newer cards. Over double what is in my 285. FSX runs pretty decent on my machine. It just gets choked up occassionally with these 'micro stutters' with aircraft like the VRS Superbug, and also on PMDG birds when I try going to JFK. I know there is no such thing as perfection when it comes to this, but anything helps. I have done a lot of the mods which have helped greatly reduce stuttering and increase stability. So just looking for any inputs as to whether it is the wisest of decisions at this point. Certiantly trust everyones thoughts more here than I do just reading reviews of websites.

[kilo delta]

What are the rest of your system's specs and what resolution do you run? I've a GTX285 running at 2560x1600 on a 30" monitor and tbh it's not the graphics card that's the bottleneck in my system.

[Roadburner440]

Running a Asus P6T Deluxe V2, i7-950 OC'd to 3600mhz running about 68-70C with FSX, a WD Raptor hard drive for FSX and a 750GB 7200RPM drive for Windows, the GTX 285, and 6GB of DDR3 Ram. I am not sure how to test to see what the actual bottle neck is. Just kind of throwing stuff at the minor problem.. Running FSX at the monitors native resolution (1920X1080). I also run the onboard sound so I have no add-in sound card.

Looking at the specs it is not earth shatteringly better than my 285 as far as numbers go. The DDR5 RAM in the 580 has a way higher clock than the DDR3 in my 285.. Like I said though it has some 512 shader processors compared to 240, and was wondering if there was any improvement to be gained from that.. I see what you are saying bout the system bottlnecks though. Upgrading the card wouldn't do a lick of difference if it is locked up elsewhere. I got a pretty good boost OC'ing the i7, but I do not want to push it to far on air.. I suppose I could go up to 3800mhz since FSX is only utilizing the one core, and temps go up to around 80C... Trying not to push that to far though.

[Bone]

. I suppose I could go up to 3800mhz since FSX is only utilizing the one core, and temps go up to around 80C... Trying not to push that to far though.

You can manually select the affinity settings to use all cores for FSX. I selected each core one by one, and ran FSX every time I added the next core just to see the difference. The visual results were stunning.

If you're sure your rig is running FSX on just one core, try the manual affinity settings.

[Roadburner440]

I changed the affinity mask settings in the .cfg file, but looking at core usage in both RealTemp and the Task window it seems to only be utilizing core 0. Core 0 will go up to 69-70C and the other ones remain in the low to mid 50's. If I am not mistaken the affinity mask is set to 12 (or whatever Nick suggested in his tutorial for quad cores).. If you know of another setting I'd be more than interested in trying it. I have had good luck following his tutorials to the letter though which is why I try not to deviate much. I think I am going to change the Texture value from 40 to 10 as some have suggested in other threads I have read and tried that out. Was just looking to see if people had any noticeable gains in going from a 285 to a 470+ card just plug n playing it. I saw a very good comparison elsewhere that showed 0 gain between the 2 cards, but like I said personal experience speaks volumes. Going to see over the next couple days what people have to say, and do a lot more research/tweaking. Depending on that may just have to take the plunge like I did with the X65, and then let people know if it is great or I am dumb and wasted the money.

[kilo delta]

I found -> this <- thread on the Avsim forums...somewhat pertinent to your question. You should be able to push that chip higher (assuming you've adequate cooling). 4Ghz should be easily attainable. What speed is the memory running at? I'd recommend 1600mhz minimum.

[Roadburner440]

Thanks Kilo. After reading through that thread I think I will just continue tweaking and wait.. I suppose getting rid of the occasional stuttering will never happen. I am going to just go back into my .cfg file and see if I play around with the numbers a little what will happen. I will need a lot better cooler if I am to push the CPU to 4ghz... Last weekend I bought a Coolermaster N520, which dropped all stats by 10C both before and after the overclock. If you have a really good fan to recommend then I am all ears. Cause I had it up to 3.8ghz stable, but running Prime95 and Intel Burn Test the temps started heading northward toward the design maximum. So I backed it back down to 3.6ghz just to stay well within the safe range of 85C.

As far as the memory goes I do not have access to the computer since I am on holiday, but it was optimized, and is running DDR3-1600 RAM. I would have to wait till I get home to access the latency's and all.

[kilo delta]

Prime 95 and the Intel burn test tend to push a system more than everyday gaming/computing operating parameters. Did you check to see what temperatures the chip reached while running FSX? I don't have an i7 system (still happy out with the performance of ye olde socket 775 chip :d ) but I believe the Noctua NH-U12P is an excellent choice for air cooling or Corsair's H70 liquid cooling setup.
FSX is a fickle beast.....I'd mine running perfectly on my sim pc. Gave it a break for a few months and went to "fly" recently only to find that it won't run again! I suppose I could have fixed it , but time is at a premium so I threw my hat at it for now.

[Bjoern]

(still happy out with the performance of ye olde socket 775 chip :d )

With the right mainboard and RAM even the weaker chips like my Q9450 can make the system flyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!


Speaking of latency and memory, try to aim for the highest possible clocks with the lowest possible timings.
Also, when fiddling with timings and clocks of your memory, remember to overvolt the i7's memory controller by +0.1V. Gives more stability.

[Roadburner440]

Well if I would of had the older Intel processors I wouldn't have the i7.. I upgraded to the i7 from a AMD FX-60 dual core system with a 7900GT Nvidia card. The difference between my old system and this is night and day. I got this system almost a year ago so now I suppose I am used to it and just being picky.. The temps were not bad with FSX at all. It was just I had no way to test to see if it was really stable. Suppose I could just jack it up, and monitor the temps that way.

I really didn't have to fiddle with the memory to much. Unfortunately on my 950 the multiplier is locked, but I was able to take it up to 24X, which enabled me to only have to take the FSB from 133 to 150 to reach the clock I am at now. I try to mess with the RAM as little as possible. To me overclocking a CPU to be stable is easy. Messing with the RAM, and it's timings is a whole other ball game.

The computer that I run it on that is all it is for is FSX. No one has the password to it except me, and it stays covered up in the desk unless I am flying/testing birds. Never had any issues with giving it a break for a month or so and coming back right where I left off. My old PC I used for everything though and it gave me nothing but trouble with FSX.

[Bone]

Here's a way to get FSX running on all cores.

Start FSX, start the task manager (right click on the bottom windows border), click on APPLICATION tab, right click on the FSX.exe application, then a window pops up to let you select the cores you want to run FSX on.


http://www.addictivetips.com/windows...on-in-windows/

Scroll down a ways until you get to the windows 7 section...I'm assuming that's what you have.

.

[txnetcop]

Here's a way to get FSX running on all cores.

Start FSX, start the task manager (right click on the bottom windows border), click on APPLICATION tab, right click on the FSX.exe application, then a window pops up to let you select the cores you want to run FSX on.


http://www.addictivetips.com/windows...on-in-windows/

Scroll down a ways until you get to the windows 7 section...I'm assuming that's what you have.

.

Bone you beat me to it...I've been working through the holidays and had just now seen this thread. This is a good article.

Roadrunner the only tweaks I have in FSX in my test system at TechCorp is the affinity mask set to 15 with i7 950. For whatever reason it doesn't work that well on all the test systems with i7Core quads. I have my standard test system OC'd to 4.2Ghz and the temps stay under 65C while gaming in FSX with everything turned up. I used to use the Reserator1 V2 for cooling but it is too cumbersome and went back to air cooling with the Noctura NH D14. I'm now using the Gigabyte GV N580D5-151-B GTX580 video card and it runs circles around the GTX460 I was using for tests but I understand the street price is over $500 so you have to weigh that. The early GTX 480s were problem plagued but the guys that test the newest ones say they have no more complaints. EVGA and Gigabyte seem to make the best 480s. The only problem with MSI is that it dumps hot air into your case with the dual cooling so you have make sure to expel that hot air. The GTX580 GPU is what the 480 should have been. We don't use FSX as an official test platform but I can tell you that the FSX I have on this unit runs very, very well with no tweaks except the Affinity Mask setting. I have yet to see a stutter.
Ted

[Roadburner440]

Nah Steve. Don't have Windows 7. Still on Vista Ultimate 64bit.. I have the free Windows 7 upgrade, but never installed it for fear of what might happen. Everything actually runs, and runs decent so I figured it is best to leave the OS alone. Thank you for the link to that though.. So basically I can set what processor I want to run each application. Very interesting, and opens up a host of new ideas...

Texnetcop thanks for your input as well.. I was looking at those reserator water cooling systems, and while impressive they are extremely expensive. Even if I have one I think the farthest I would go is 4ghz. I wound up last weekend buying, and installing a CoolermasterN520 (bottom of the line air cooler, but still dropped all my temps 10C over the stock cooler). I am aware on the price of the 580's. I usually sit on the fence for awhile (as I picked up the GTX-285 1GB when they were on the way out), and as I understand it the 580 is just a respin of the 470/480 architecture which to me means it is the improved version that should have been in the previous iterations. The cards are definately not cheap. Even on Amazon they are $560.. I do not smoke, or drink though. So got to have some vice. Plus I was selling a lot of the old computer parts around my house, and that was the money I was going to use to pay for it.

I appreciate all the inputs. Think I have enough info on this, and I am just going to mess around with OC'ing some more, and tweaking FSX itself. Although the 580 may enable me to finally turn light bloom on with all of the shader cores it has. Don't think that is worth the price of admission alone. If I do buy one though I would buy an EVGA card (my last 7900GT and this GTX-285 are both EVGA cards), and I have never had an ounce out of them. Everyone has difference experiences in that department though, and I just consider myself lucky to have never gotten a bad or DOA card.

[Bone]

The procedure works for Vista the same as it does for Windows 7.

I'm wrestling with some upgrade choices at this time, also, so good luck with it.

[Bjoern]

Messing with the RAM, and it's timings is a whole other ball game.

Not really. You get your CPU overclocked and stable first and check if your RAM can handle the higher frequencies (with timings set to "Auto"). Once done, you can play around with the timings themselves.

I just love my G.Skill sticks. Overclocked and overvolted with splendid timings (6-8-6-24 with T(RD) at 6!!!!!!!!).
Their tech support was the best one I've ever seen in my life!
"Yeah, 1.7V is no problem on those 1.35V ECO sticks." :d

[txnetcop]

Not really. You get your CPU overclocked and stable first and check if your RAM can handle the higher frequencies (with timings set to "Auto"). Once done, you can play around with the timings themselves.

I just love my G.Skill sticks. Overclocked and overvolted with splendid timings (6-8-6-24 with T(RD) at 6!!!!!!!!).
Their tech support was the best one I've ever seen in my life!
"Yeah, 1.7V is no problem on those 1.35V ECO sticks." :d

Thanks Bjoern I will have to try that on my next test build.

[Bjoern]

Thanks Bjoern I will have to try that on my next test build.

The RAM?

Yeah, definately give 'em a try!
I couldn't be better off with anything more expensive, like the Ripjaws or the XMS3.

[Roadburner440]

Alright. So essentially I went and took everyones advice. I re-overclocked the CPU to 3.8ghz at 1.216V, and checked the RAM timings and they are DDR3 1600 at 8-8-8-18.. I also went and changed my Texture_Bandwidth_Multi to 10 from 70. Went and flew FSX to beta test the Nemeth's new creation and everything seems 100%. The micro-stutters are gone, but my FPS remains between 12-30FPS (I have it locked at 30).. Was with some low level fog and what not too. Still debating on if the video card would make it better than it is. Think right now though going to hold off and see if the 580's go on sale since I am happy.. Plus PMDG said they are going to start selling hard copies of the NGX manuals in the next 7-10 days so that may take my video card money anyway. Thank you guys for all of your opinions, and just wanted to let you know that it worked without me having to spend a dime. Hopefully this post will help someone in my situation who gets the bug without first tweaking their system fully.

[Bjoern]

DDR3 1600 at 8-8-8-18

Goody!

The micro-stutters are gone, but my FPS remains between 12-30FPS (I have it locked at 30)

I recommend using an external FPS locking tool. FSX's internal one cuts framerates down way too much.

[Bone]

Goody!



I recommend using an external FPS locking tool. FSX's internal one cuts framerates down way too much.

Such as?

[kilo delta]

Such as?

fps limiter...there's a thread in the FSX section about it.


Edit: found the link --> here <--

[Bone]

Thanks KD.

[Roadburner440]

Thanks for the link. I am going to have to give that one a run down. I am just glad the micro stutters are gone finally.

[stansdds]

I would not get too hung up on the fps counter. Even with my rig, using tweaks and the external fps limiter, my fps jumps up and down. The important thing is smoothness. 20 fps that is glass smooth will look a whole lot better than 50 fps that is jittery. FSX does not make the most use of a graphics card, FSX is mostly CPU dependent.