Well said ken...We were Masters of the World then... The Marshal Plan,and Gen.Mc Arthure in japan??...Hate ,revenge , cruelty,should be made of sterner stuff.....but its 2010 now,and things in history get misplaced.often by those retelling it...Even in one lifetime!!..thanx!!! Vin!!
James,
I agree with every word you wrote.
Some might view that as inconsistency. But having a nation that suffered fron systemic internal racism doesn't equate to the war being primarily a racist war.
I would also add that the Japanese brutality displayed throughout the war, starting with the Bataan Death march insofar as the Americans were concerned, combined with the Pearl Harbor attack to place American anger at volcano level.
I don't think the average GI harbored the same visceral anger at the Germans until they discovered the death camps. I know the American GI never had remotely close to that level of anger directed toward Italian troops. As a brief aside, that's a sharp lesson learned and forms a principle justification and rationale behind modern Western precepts of Laws of Armed Conflict. Compassion and morality on a battlefield may sound to some like inherent dichotomies, but in truth, holding on to the moral high ground normally ends up being a force multiplier!
In my view, had Japan declared war before attacking Pearl Harbor, and treated POW's with compassion, that I don't believe the level of visceral hatred would have materialized. Still would have been a brutal war. But I don't think the anger would have been as raw.
One final point, a large percentage of Japanese-Americans were first generation. The vast majority of Italian-Americans and German-Americans were third or fourth generation Americans. Those differences were substantial in terms of domestic reactions. However, it is without question that despite the mistreatment afforded to them, Japanese-Americans contributed mightily to American victory in that war.
To my way of thinking, this is the true honor to be had. Both black Americans and Japanese-Americans put aside the gross mistreatments and fought bravely for America. The Japanese Nesei units had the highest percentage of CMoH's awarded in the ETO. Their courage became legend. Again, that's the real story to be told.
Cheers,
Ken
Absolutely there was an aspect of racism... rooted in disagreements going back to 1924..played a very important role in the distrust of the two nations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Act_of_1924
To say we went to war because we hated them... nope that was Pearl Harbor. A famous quote made by a serviceman during the attack.... "I didn't even know they were sore at us."
crashAZ- Virtual Navy
[SIGPIC]http://www.sim-outhouse.net/images/rtwr2013/rtwr2013_sm.png[/SIGPIC]
I agree 110%. Arrogance comes to mind. What hit home for me was while watching the trailers I saw a picture of Hanks just a week or two ago with a caption noting that he is now "the pre-emptive WWII historian" if you can believe that crap. Arrogance personified indeed especially when considering these people play pretend for a living. I think I like "Wilson" better now.Originally Posted by crashaz
1492? :mixedsmi:
MHO, here but I think, that every "war"/"conflict" that has ever been fought throughout man's history has some form of racism in them. The "other side" always being inferior, b*stards, and other unmentionable names. Mankind has always had to "dehumanize" their opponents in order to "hype" their side.
"Trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty!" John Adams 1772
Snuffy / Ted
With respect, I don't think I have to "dehumanize" the Al Qaeda and Taliban terrorists we fight in this war. Their own actions have already demonstrated their lack of humanity far more decisively than any propaganda effort could possibly do! And considering the fact these thugs murdered more fellow Arab and Pashtun Muslims than they did westerners, and that my actions were designed to protect those Arab and Pashtun Muslims, it would be impossible to think my actions and missions were racist against anyone.
Respectfully offered,
Ken
And Native Americans too!
Excellent point!
You may know that this series just barely survived ending up on the darkroom floor. Luckily Hanks and Spielberg et al were still juiced enough from Band of Brothers and Saving Pvt Ryan to continue with production. I suspect their liberal circle of associates and friends have more than once complained about "more glorification of wars".
The disjointed aspect of the production is mainly due to the attempts to weave the stories of three principal and separate personalities (who were in three separate Marine regiments at different times). Band of Brothers was far easier to control, as the story went along. One group of men, one set of leaders. We will see as the series continues that the Pacific story gets more cohesive as these Marines all end up in the same horrible exposure to extended combat with a fanatical enemy. They will be fighting generally no more than a few hundred yards apart.
And yes, there was definitely a racial thing in WWII as it often the case. White Americans and Europeans had more than 2 centuries of colonial and other clashes with "asians". The whites had most of the power and the money, and exploited the "brown and yellow" masses. Bad feelings on both sides prevailed. As Ken S. pointed out here -- and this is very important -- Japanese cruelty to everyone not Japanese made the Empire's enemies more determined to stamp out "Nippon" and its ability to ever wage another war in the Pacific or with China. At the fighting man level, the fact that typical Japanese soldiers did not fear -- in fact welcomed -- death in combat made for a terribly "no holds barred - no quarter" conflict.
If any of you want to read two absolutely terrific books written by two of the personalities The Pacific is following, here they are:
"Helmet for My Pillow" -- Robert Leckie
"With the Old Breed" -- Eugene Sledge
These books make it as personal as it gets. Both authors are gone now, as is John Basilone (personality #3) who was killed on Iwo Jima after returning to the battlefront. I'm hoping the series is reasonably faithful to the written legacy these men left.
Korea
Taipan
Manchuria
China
Thailand
Indo-China
These are all examples of nations occupied (and with exception of Thailand) colonies of Japan prior to US entry into World War II. In the case of Korea it was a colony for many decades prior to the Japanese occupation of Manchuria which itself pre-dated by several years Hitler's invasion of Poland.
Other islands were Japanese prefectures, such as Okinawa, Saipan, and Iwo Jima -- among others.
I add this merely to mildly dispute the notion that Pacific colonialism was a racial issue. It was an economic issue.
Cheers,
Ken
I'm sorry to interrupt, but I have to ask, is it good?
Yeah, I thought so. It's worth the watch.
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