Fatal P-51 Crash at Chandler Airpark, AZ 3/11/10

**Bomber_12th** · March 11th, 2010, 14:48

I hate to bring such tragic news to this board, but it has been reported just within the last few hours, that the P-51D, known as Su Su, crashed, devastatingly, while attempting an aborted-landing, as far as reports can state. I feel especially awful for the pilot's wife, who was at the airport, and saw it unfold. The following are a couple of news reports, with the latest information as it comes in.

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/sto...medium=twitter

http://www.abc15.com/content/news/south ... bm1AQ.cspx

While not confirmed, it sounds like the aircraft got away from the pilot, after he tried to get airborne again, bringing the power up, after bouncing on landing.

**TomSteber** · March 12th, 2010, 04:03

Ah God, what can you say about this. Tragic.
Unfortunately, I can hear the "they shouldn't fly these things" crowd firing up.
Sounds like he throttled up too quick on his aborted landing after bouncing and the torque got away from him.
It was an accident. A sad accident.

**RyanJames170** · March 12th, 2010, 06:22

Originally Posted by TomSteber

Ah God, what can you say about this. Tragic.
Unfortunately, I can hear the "they shouldn't fly these things" crowd firing up.
Sounds like he throttled up too quick on his aborted landing after bouncing and the torque got away from him.
It was an accident. A sad accident.

this totaly sucks.. the sad this is yeah the you shouldnt fly them crowd will fire up and a few other will stop flying them..

**Kiwikat** · March 12th, 2010, 07:20

How horrible.

It brings back memories from the P-51 crash at EAA in 2007. Aviation can be so tragic at times.

R.I.P. Mr. Hirani

**Lionheart** · March 12th, 2010, 07:29

A family member thinks its the same Mustang that was doing fly-bys at the airshow I was at over the weekend. If so, it was in absolutely perfect condition.

According to witnesses, he was in pattern, coming in low, wierd engine sputters, and one person reported the prop as almost being stopped. If that is the case (if) then it sounds like he had engine failure and tried to make it back in and they dont glide well and he was super low from having taken off, and he just didnt make it, clipping a small wall with wroght iron graiting, and impacting into a hanger door, which was more like a garage door, very small. Probably a business building at the airport.

Really sad.... May his soul rest in peace.

EDIT: I have heard they can flip over from just torque. One case in New Zealand was from this. Right after take-off, he punched that throttle and the bird literally cork screwed over, and dived straight into the ground. alot of power there...

Bill

***jmig*** · March 12th, 2010, 08:41

That is sad. My condolenses to the family.

Yes Bill, those big engines have enough torque to do a roll. Many a unwary pilot has bought the farm by coming in with too much power too quickly on a go around.

**GT182** · March 12th, 2010, 12:06

Very sad indeed. My condolences to his family too. R.I.P. Mr. Hirani.

**Wittpilot** · March 12th, 2010, 12:50

I believe P-51's are infamous for this type of problem... Hard landing, bounce, add power, and the torque takes over. Bomber could probably elaborate a bit more on that with his Mustang work, but I think this is something that plagues beginner Mustang pilots. Not saying this guy was a beginner, and I'm sure it is hard for even experienced Mustang pilot's as well...

Ken Stallings · March 12th, 2010, 13:13

Originally Posted by RyanJames170

this totaly sucks.. the sad this is yeah the you shouldnt fly them crowd will fire up and a few other will stop flying them..

I don't think anyone who owns one that is airworthy will stop flying it.

All aircraft are capable of killing you if you fly them outside their envelope. It's like the adage about the Piper Cub being "the safest of all aircraft as it can only barely kill you!"

Situation with the P-51 is similar to Vmca in a twin engine. Especially at sea level, you cannot apply full power until you reach a given airspeed. Go arounds in high performance aircraft are always risky.

Ken

Ken Stallings · March 12th, 2010, 13:15

Originally Posted by Wittpilot

I believe P-51's are infamous for this type of problem... Hard landing, bounce, add power, and the torque takes over. Bomber could probably elaborate a bit more on that with his Mustang work, but I think this is something that plagues beginner Mustang pilots. Not saying this guy was a beginner, and I'm sure it is hard for even experienced Mustang pilot's as well...

Hard thing is to accept that sometimes you just have to accept a soft landing incident vice induce a total loss trying to recover.

Ken

**Bomber_12th** · March 12th, 2010, 13:37

The final verdict on the incident still awaits. What is for certain is that the pilot was dearly loved by all knew him, based on every account I have read, which speaks volumes about the man himself. It was a long-time passion of his to one day own and pilot a Mustang, which he did. He was qualified in the Mustang, and had a good amount of hours in the type. Based on what one of the witnesses and friends stated, it was just a freak incident, that likely wasn't ever anticipated by the pilot when it happened.

When you add in power, at slow speed, in such an aircraft as the Mustang, it is exactly as Ken stated, a similar situation to losing an engine in a twin - and it is more pronounced the faster the power is added - which this seems to be the case as of now in what happened, but conclusions will be made and presented later. The Mustang is considered to be an easy airplane to fly, but things happen so fast, like a jet, but with a big gyro at the front, and you have to be ahead of what the aircraft is going to do, at all times. Even on a normal take off, depending on the velocity/rate at which you are going, you still need some right stick to keep it from its natural tendency to roll to the left once the wheels break from the ground - lesser so, the faster you are before leaving the ground.

**viking3** · March 12th, 2010, 14:45

Bad news for sure. Hate to lose those old birds and any aviation death is always abrupt and sad. At least the man died doing something that most of us dream of. As for the airframe it is terrible but there are a number of Mustangs flying at least. If you only have 1 or 2 of a type then maybe you don't fly those any more.

Regards, Rob:ernae:

**Naki** · March 12th, 2010, 14:51

Originally Posted by Lionheart

EDIT: I have heard they can flip over from just torque. One case in New Zealand was from this. Right after take-off, he punched that throttle and the bird literally cork screwed over, and dived straight into the ground. alot of power there...
Bill

That was actually a Mark XIV Spitfire with a Griffon engine flown by Sir Tim Wallis who was seriously injured on take off...the fault there was that the pilot counterd the torque the wrong way with the rudder as he was use to flying the Mark XVI Spitfire which had a Merlin which engine turns the opposite way to the Griffon powered Mark XIV.

Ken Stallings · March 12th, 2010, 16:57

Originally Posted by viking3

Bad news for sure. Hate to lose those old birds and any aviation death is always abrupt and sad. At least the man died doing something that most of us dream of. As for the airframe it is terrible but there are a number of Mustangs flying at least. If you only have 1 or 2 of a type then maybe you don't fly those any more.

Regards, Rob:ernae:

I agree with that. When only a few or one is available, you ground it and put it on museum display. Fortunately, long before that point is reached, any aircraft worthy of exhibit already has several copies that cannot be put into an airworthy condition. So, they are already preserved. Everything right about flying the ones in airworthy condition. That's what airplanes are for.

Cheers,

Ken

tigisfat · March 12th, 2010, 17:22

Taildraggers can surprise the greatest of pilots sometimes. My first few hours in taildraggers consisted of oscillation (induced by me) down the runway and bouncing when I tried to stick the mains on. I learned on a very difficult taildragger, so everything seemed easy when I started to fly a champ and a superdecathlon. Don't get the wrong idea, I still did my best to keep my wits even with the superdecathlon, and it did surprise me from time to time. Those with only "nosedragger" experience can't comprehend the wackiness that can happen with taildraggers. You can literally go blasting off 45 degrees away from where you wanted to be in a split second, or get positively THROWN back into the air with NO flying speed after poorly trying to stick the mains. I have plenty of taildragger time now, and fly an Extra 300L from time to time, but I have no doubt that there is no skill level at which a taildragger can't surprise you.

For those who've never flown a taildragger, especially a high performance one:

Take a front wheel drive car like a honda civic, and back the rear wheels up onto plastic platters and set the emergency brake so that you can drive with them stuck on. Now install nitrous on the car and accelerate to about 50MPH at full throttle.

Ken Stallings · March 12th, 2010, 17:34

Chuck Yeager was at an airshow one day and someone ground looped a taildragger warbird. Some reporter asked him about it and he simply said, "Happens to all of us!"

Ken

**Bomber_12th** · March 12th, 2010, 17:49

Originally Posted by Ken Stallings

Chuck Yeager was at an airshow one day and someone ground looped a taildragger warbird. Some reporter asked him about it and he simply said, "Happens to all of us!"

Ken

Yeager ground-looped a T-6 himself, several years ago.

Ken Stallings · March 12th, 2010, 18:43

You know, now that I think about it, I think that quote was the one he made when he ground looped that T-6!

Ken

tigisfat · March 12th, 2010, 21:19

Originally Posted by Ken Stallings

Chuck Yeager was at an airshow one day and someone ground looped a taildragger warbird. Some reporter asked him about it and he simply said, "Happens to all of us!"

Ken

Bob Hoover is the man I regard as the greatest pilot that ever lived. His autobiography is opening, it seems half of his stories are crashes.

Ken Stallings · March 13th, 2010, 06:09

No doubt.

Crashes are always a possibility. The key is to control them by flying the aircraft all the way until it stops. By doing this, you hope to keep it a controlled crash. This term may strike some as a contradiction, but it's absolutely valid. I figure if folks like Hoover and Yeager can crack 'em up, we are all able to.

Ken

**letsgetrowdy** · March 13th, 2010, 08:24

Oh God. This is awful, I just heard about it. As was said before, I get really annoyed when I see comments saying stuff like "It was an accident waiting to happen" and "This is why over 60-year-old aeroplanes shouldn't fly anymore." I was scarred enough whilst I was at flying Legends in '08, and P-51 "G-BIXL" gave a cloud of black smoke on finals and then hit the contrete taxiway and dug in the prop. There was a sharp intake of breath all round.
Anyway - RIP