Just Flight Tiger Moths

[kurt190]

Question: Have the Just Flight Tiger Moths been upgraded to native FSX or are they still the cripples they were a year ago?

Thanks
kurt

[Nick C]

As far as I'm aware they haven't been updated, perhaps Baz could drop by and offer some additional info?

[letsgetrowdy]

eeerm, well..I bought the Just fligh Tiggies last year and plunged them straight into FSX acceleration, and has absolutely no problems with - no prop issues etc.
what do you mean about them being cripples? Have you been having problems with them?

[kurt190]

Just over a year ago I bought the "boxed set" and was running them in FSX ACC on Vista 64. I ran the updates but the aircraft suffered various texture problems and awful frame rates. Running them under XP Pro graphic issues were sorted (aside from rather naff prop textures) but were still frame rate hungry. The frame rate problem as far as I could see was down to these not being "native" models but port overs.
I now have a more powerful rig running on Win7 and I would dearly like to fly a Tiggie but I only want to run "native" models - hence my question.

I'm probably being unfair calling them cripples but I get really peeved when a product is sold as FSX and it is not "native". I'm also probably too particular about my frame rates - anything below about 30 fps is unacceptable to me as it begins to get a little less than silky smooth at that point.

letsgetrowdy - can you take a look in the model folder and see if there are seperate mdl files for the aircraft and VC - that seems to be the easiest way of identifying whether they are "native" or not.

kurt

[letsgetrowdy]

oh yeah that's true, the frames on mine are horrific.
No, sorry as you say this is not native.
The Tiger-Moth was the first plane I ever flew in RW, at the ripe old age of 14 - and I think FSX desperatly needs one.
just imagine an A2A accusimmed Tiger-moth, with modeling like the cubs -.....aarrggghh......

[kurt190]

I was just looking on the Aeroplane Heaven site and they advertise a full FSX version will be ready in 2007........ Hmmmm

Sometimes I wish Bill Lyons was still building models..........

kurt

[CHBTheDoctor]

This http://www.justflight.com/faqs.asp?d...Moth#Update313 will bring it to full FSX-ACC.

I have the JF Tiger Moth, it's an nice plane, nothing special, but a decent Tiger Moth.

[CHBTheDoctor]

oh yeah that's true, the frames on mine are horrific.
No, sorry as you say this is not native.
The Tiger-Moth was the first plane I ever flew in RW, at the ripe old age of 14 - and I think FSX desperatly needs one.
just imagine an A2A accusimmed Tiger-moth, with modeling like the cubs -.....aarrggghh......

On the other hand, I would buy almost everything from A2A thats AccuSimmed

[kurt190]

This http://www.justflight.com/faqs.asp?d...Moth#Update313 will bring it to full FSX-ACC.

I have the JF Tiger Moth, it's an nice plane, nothing special, but a decent Tiger Moth.

I ran the update back in late 2008 or early 2009 and the models were still FS2004 SDK models as far as I am aware. Have you run the update and can you confirm whether they are now "native" as opposed to "compatible".

Thanks
kurt

[arrowmaker]

I have the JF Tiger Moth, it's an nice plane, nothing special, but a decent Tiger Moth.

It's still the best Tiger Moth that Flight Simulator has to offer. Because it's not FSX native, though, I only fly it now in GW3.

[kurt190]

I just installed the whole shooting match into a dummy FSX install and with the update it is still an FS2004 SDK model. I'll delete it now and forget about it.

Thanks for your help and time folks.

kurt

[Martyn]

Just to clarify, the Tiger Moth hasn't been rebuilt as an FSX native product. The updates simply remove the black prop and glass texture issues introduced by FSX SP2/Acc.

[kurt190]

Thanks Martyn- saw your response at the JF forum.

kurt

[Dain Arns]

I was just looking on the Aeroplane Heaven site and they advertise a full FSX version will be ready in 2007........ Hmmmm

Indeed. Same with the Mosquito.
Promises made, but never kept.

Sometimes I wish Bill Lyons was still building models..........

Me too.

[Martyn]

Promises made, but never kept.

Unfortunately even the bigger dev teams in the FS industry consist of a handful of people working in their spare time. AH have produced the Connie and P-51 in the past year or two, they couldn't have worked on a Mossie and Tiger Moth at the same time. Disappointing I know, but that's the reality of the situation. We really do try our hardest not to cause too much disappointment.

Fortunately there are now enough excellent devs in the industry that we no longer have to wait months/years for the next product to arrive, just look at the amount of superb content released over the past year. Things have got a lot better since the days of FS2000!

[kurt190]

Unfortunately even the bigger dev teams in the FS industry consist of a handful of people working in their spare time. AH have produced the Connie and P-51 in the past year or two, they couldn't have worked on a Mossie and Tiger Moth at the same time. Disappointing I know, but that's the reality of the situation. We really do try our hardest not to cause too much disappointment.

Fortunately there are now enough excellent devs in the industry that we no longer have to wait months/years for the next product to arrive, just look at the amount of superb content released over the past year. Things have got a lot better since the days of FS2000!

Martyn,

No disrespect - I bought the Tiggies as FSX models. That is how they were advertised and sold at the time (I see they aren't any more). Personally I spent £25 of my hard earned on a model which to all intents and purposes is useless to me. I know there are mitigating circumstances around it - i.e. SP2 and Acceleration were not released when the Tiggies first came out, however I do feel a little peeved. I work in the business application side of the IT industry and if I was to sell a product that was obsolete within a couple of months and then promise an upgrade (AH here not Just Flight) and then not provide it I think there may be questions asked by the customer to say the least. And to say that they were too busy developing something else is simply adding insult to injury. Generally people and customers are happier if you finish the job before moving on to something else.
Even in FS9 the Tiggies were problematic from the point of view of frame rates. So much so that in the end (on my old rig) I junked them and went back to Bill Lyons rather old but lovingly crafted version.
This is not meant to be a rant or a flame. I know that AH and Just Flight are in business to make money but given what I know now I don't think I would have purchased them. It also makes me reticent to part with my hard earned on other products.

So anyone want a boxed set of Tiggies for FS9? Make me an offer......

kurt

[arrowmaker]

So anyone want a boxed set of Tiggies for FS9? Make me an offer......

Sorry Kurt, but I've already got a box of Tiggies.

[kurt190]

Sorry Kurt, but I've already got a box of Tiggies.

LOL!

kurt

[Martyn]

Hi Kurt,

If you purchased the Tiger Moth directly from our site, you will be entitled to a 30-day money back guarantee. If you are unhappy with any aspect of the product or purchase system, we are happy to provide you with a full refund.

Thanks

[kurt190]

Hi Kurt,

If you purchased the Tiger Moth directly from our site, you will be entitled to a 30-day money back guarantee. If you are unhappy with any aspect of the product or purchase system, we are happy to provide you with a full refund.

Thanks

Thanks for that Martyn - I appreciate the sentiment and the offer but I bought them as a boxed set probably getting on for two years ago. At that time I had purchased a new PC that was intended to be for FSX, however for one reason or another I could not get it to run in a way that I found satisfactory. Therefore I junked FSX and stayed with FS9. I have recently built a new FSX rig which works pretty well - I have my frame locked at 36 and it stays there most of the time, hence my interest in reinstalling the Tiger Moth.
Don't worry I am not bitter and twisted about this, nor am I spitting nails just a bit peeved and I can live with that.
All the best to you.

kurt

[Dain Arns]

Unfortunately even the bigger dev teams in the FS industry consist of a handful of people working in their spare time. AH have produced the Connie and P-51 in the past year or two, they couldn't have worked on a Mossie and Tiger Moth at the same time. Disappointing I know, but that's the reality of the situation. We really do try our hardest not to cause too much disappointment.

Fortunately there are now enough excellent devs in the industry that we no longer have to wait months/years for the next product to arrive, just look at the amount of superb content released over the past year. Things have got a lot better since the days of FS2000!

Martyn, I have no beef with JF or you, personally. Understand that, please. I do realize you are the "middle man" in this situation.
Nice customer service there by the way. I appreciate that. I really do.

The reality of the situation is that well over 3 years ago, the Moth from AH was released as a product, as advertised, that would eventually see an upgrade to a full FSX native model.
It was purchased by me, based on that promise.
I was excited about that in fact. The Moth is a personal favorite.
Various excuses were given along the way as to it's delay, including Acceleration/SP2, then silence.
That was fine.
FSX can be a technical nightmare.
I am quite well aware of those challenges as reported by other developers here at SOH.

However in that time, other developers who promised full FSX native support for their products as advertised, have delivered on their promises.
The Moth would appear at least to me, not to be that technically challenging of an aircraft.
Over 3 years should have been more than enough time to create a full FSX native model, IMHO.
Understand I never expected them to work night and day on this product.
Just step up at some point and fulfill a promise.

But obviously a decision was made by AH to "move on". Well, so have I.
The "Connie" is another favorite aircraft of mine, it's beautiful.
AH has done a really remarkable job on it, and really captured the beauty of the aircraft. Honestly.
But I will not own the AH version due an unfulfilled promise by them.
Please understand, that was how I was brought up. I'm "old school".

If in the future AH would want to finally fulfill the promises as advertised of fully FSX native versions of the Moth and Mossie, then I would be more than happy to resume being a customer with their products, at that time.

Seriously.

Also I suspect I am not alone here with that thought, many have expressed that same feeling here over the years.
So, maybe just a simple bit of advice of keeping customers happy.
Make a promise, keep it.

Thanks, Martyn!

[Pips]

I have the JF Tiger Moth and have no probs at all flying it. Performs and flies beautifully - no adverse effects or fps hits. It's my favourite payware aeroplane.

But for those who want a geniune FSX Tiger Moth, Ant (fabulous aerodrome maker) has one under development. See here.
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforum...ad.php?t=29326

[Dain Arns]

But for those who want a geniune FSX Tiger Moth, Ant (fabulous aerodrome maker) has one under development. See here.
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforum...ad.php?t=29326

Outstanding!
Lot's of smiles from everyone around here!

[IanHenry]

I like Justflights Tiger Moth, but I rarly use it because I fly in DX10 now, shame really.

Regards,
Ian.