Wings of Prey

[olaf1924]

ryan I will give it a try one more time.

[Scratch]

I want to try it dang it... but I've downloaded it twice...each time the file being corrupt...any ideas?

I used the torrent on their site and it went pretty fast and worked well.

[c87]

I've been flying the demo, mainly on tutorial to get a feel for it this past weekend. Granted, I'm an eye-candy simmer more than a flight-model grognard so I might be a bit biased, but this is the best looking flight sim I've ever seen. I think it even beats FSX on a great day. The White Cliffs of Dover have never looked so good. It's definitely worth giving it a shot seeing as how they have a free demo.

[VFR Reviews]

Really looks pretty good to me

I shall have to have a gander, so thanks for the HU :ernae:

[TheOptimist]

In theory I will love this, but I have a few problems to overcome first.

1. Do they not support an FSX-style mouse arrangement? If you set the mouse as the aileron and elevator axis's it doesn't behave like fsx - if you move the mouse far right, for example, it only turns a limited amount. Then you have to jiggle the mouse back and forth to get it to roll. I guess I need a joystick.

2. I wish wish wish they had done a little more on the flight dynamics. You can stall this thing by farting.

[EgoR64]

I dove in - 6.2GB to download all nighter - well worth it, Using a Cyborg X Joystick, By using the Key Mappings & mixture of Device Settings I have it setup perfect.

Graphics are Insane - :ernae:

Damage is good -

To make it fun - make sure to fly in the Simulator mode and use your Map often to find the Enemy - Arcade mode is to easy and the little red/yellow triangles will just make it more confusing -

Great stuff - Thumbs Up -

Funnest I have had since Lock-on came out -

Many Cheers -

[Scratch]

In theory I will love this, but I have a few problems to overcome first.

2. I wish wish wish they had done a little more on the flight dynamics. You can stall this thing by farting.

That has been a huge weakness of all Il-2 games is the flight model, esp. the stalls. No matter what a/c you fly it feels like you are balancing on the head of a pin. Of all the flight sims that have come out in the last ten years IL-2 FMs are the worst. WOP is a little better it seems, but still too close to other IL-2 products.

[CodyValkyrie]

So I am taking it that this is not much of simulator, but more of an arcade style game? How are the instruments, etc?

[d0mokun]

If it's a PC 'port' of the console IL2: Birds of Prey (which it looks very much like), then it's not so much a simulator- definitely a game. It focuses more on the shooting with little in the way of instrument watching, systems etc.

I guess it could be summed up as an IL2 game for the masses; which is good. It's fun.

[CodyValkyrie]

It's a port it seems of the of the console game, and they play almost exactly the same but this obviously is for the computer. Not for serious simmers, but damn fun. I shot down a whole german flight of JU-88 bombers in about 3 minutes. LOTS of parachutes all around.

[Ark]

If it's a PC 'port' of the console IL2: Birds of Prey (which it looks very much like), then it's not so much a simulator- definitely a game. It focuses more on the shooting with little in the way of instrument watching, systems etc.

I guess it could be summed up as an IL2 game for the masses; which is good. It's fun.

It may be a port, but not one like you would think. It is obvious that the development team has spent and is spending quite a bit more time with the PC version (no "press triangle for eject!". The graphics being the best looking I have ever see in a flight simulator (The scenery doesn't even "pop-in"!). IMO, they make FSX quite poor in comparison and the performance is excellent. The FM is similar to IL-2's but seems to be improved in some ways as well, and the support from the developer is amazing.

Dedicated servers and quite a few other things are also "in the pipeline" it seems. Responses from the developer in their forum is refreshing as are the, so far, very quick updates. In the past week or so there have been about 4 updates (IIRC).

The fact that I can run a game that looks this good at 2560x1600 with 6xFSAA and 16xAF in-game at "Ultra High settings" is extraordinary. The amazing performance coupled with the very smooth TrackIR movements is a flight experience like no other I have experienced on my PC. Amazingly, since purchasing WoP a few days ago, I have not even touched FS9 or FSX. I used to play each for hours on end...not any more. Both of which I still love.

WoP, to me, is sort of what I wanted IL-2 to look/feel like (though I know that probably wasn't possible at the time). It is so immersive with the visual environment and whatnot it just draws you in. Is the FM perfect? No. Does the product need work? Yes, but so do most others. However, this title IS getting worked on. The devleopers are active within the community and it seems like they listen to what people have to say. I also heard the team working on WoP is fairly large so that may attribute to the great support.

It may not be as accurate FM wise as....I don't know, what WWII flightsim out there is accurate FM wise, lol? But it is not a simple "arcade" game. It does have some arcade elements (starting in the air on some maps, I believe...but even this is one of the things the developers may be changing), but it is quite good. The are various settings, starting with arcade or simple (can't remember which) and moving up to Realistic and Simulation. At the higher realism settings, I do believe engine management is a pretty big factor (the mapping screen looks a LOT like the mapping screen from IL-2 key wise).

It really is a product that should not be missed by WWII sim pilots. I really do think it is that good. Some may disagree, but the title has been well received thus far. If the development team sticks with it and continues to create improvements/additions, I could see WoP being a really heavy hitter i the flight simulation market.

On a side note, I challenge somebody to find me a video of a flight sim product that draws you in as much as this (well, if you like WWII sims, lol):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zU8ZnA02g2g

:ernae:

[Ark]

It's a port it seems of the of the console game, and they play almost exactly the same but this obviously is for the computer. Not for serious simmers.

I am going to have to disagree with you regarding the "not for serious simmers" comment. WoP offers options that are plenty intensive (with room for improvement as is true for all sims) with regards to the flying experience.

If you are a fan of the IL-2 series, you can get into WoP pretty easily. At the maximum realism settings it is pretty darn good. The comparison videos betwen IL-2 and WoP out there offer some pretty decent insight.

The best part is the development team seems to be pretty devoted to the product. I can't wait to see what they come up with in the coming months.


...............now if I can just convince the RoF team to "switch" over to WoP's graphics engine (not the RoF looks bad by any stretch of the imagination).

[Bjoern]

Now why in the hell can't we get an awesome modern jet warfare game?

Strike Fighters.


WoP looks like a nice arcarde graphics demo.

[deathfromafar]

I have the sim and it is the best WW2 simulation I have seen yet in many aspects. It flies very well with believable dynamics and solid feel. There are selectable levels of realism from simple arcade like modeling to difficult levels. The weapon modeling is very good as is the damage modeling. The exteriors, VC's, and terrain all look excellent. I have not trouble running the game at max levels and getting ultra smooth frame rates. This is the best all around air combat simulation I have seen since the then excellent CFS1 and 2 came out. It's a winner in my book! Got a lot to delve into getting to know this sim. As noted above, perhaps there are some things the developer may change to suit a wider group of PC pilots. I am happy as hell with it.

[DennyA]

It cracks me up when I see the IL-2 fanboys in other forums who feel the need to criticize the flight models when anyone else dares make a sim. IL-2's models are on the numbers, but stalls are ridiculously overmodeled and are way too easy to enter compared to when flying a real plane, where you get g-force and buffeting cues.

Amusingly, there's a development/licensing connection between Wings of Prey and IL-2, and they actually carried over quite a bit of the IL-2 flight modeling, including the ridiculous departure modeling that makes the game nearly unplayable on consoles at realistic settings.

At any rate, as Death from Afar says, this is a believable, fun sim that looks stunningly beautiful, with amazing cockpits (on par with the FSX payware planes some of ya'll don't hesitate to pay $50 for), TrackIR support, and a much less sterile, boring environment than the IL-2 series. It's not perfect, but it's very much a modern successor to Jane's WW2 Fighters, with the 10 years of PC/graphics development that have occurred in the meantime. I have zero regrets on spending the $50.

[crashaz]

Wow based on your review Denny... nuff said! You have never led me wrong during the years.

[DennyA]

Cool deal, Crash! :)

There's a free demo available, too, though I'd already purchased it before that came out, so I'm not sure how much it includes/omits.

The hardest of the hardcore will find plenty to complain about (but they'd gripe if you dropped them into the cockpit of a real Bf-109E, saying the stall modeling didn't match IL-2's :-).

But if you're looking for a fun sim that's realistic enough to give you a sense of immersion, this one delivers!

[CodyValkyrie]

I stick by my statements. Rather than go to an in depth review of why this is not a SERIOUS simmer's escape (I dare say for those looking for a very serious simulation hold out), the game focuses nearly entirely on the aspects of a combat simulator that catches people's eye, such as explosions. In a single mission I had to bomb several airbases, fight off waves of enemies, and fly to a flag that ended the mission. I had little to no control of my AI counterparts, but they liked to tell me such important things as "I have one on my tail," without giving me a single clue who is "I," there seemed to be little importance to the importance of your engine (unless of course you get a few bullets in it), my flights when I was shot down all ended in explosions, a single burst from my Spittie blew of whole wings of HE-111s, beyond basic flight controls such as flaps, mixture etc, there was little to no ability to adjust other features of the plane such as locking the artificial horizon, switching coms, flight maps, etc, ther weather while impressive visually had little to no effect on the plane (turbulance, shear, and wind speeds), enemies planes SPAWN into the battlefield and are ALWAYS located at fixed locations which upon your arrival they begin to fly their missions, etc etc etc.

Guys, don't get me wrong, it is a beautiful game and there are some impressive effects. It is however not a complete hard core flight simulation but rather falls into the movie-esque style of flight combat simulators. Each plane tends to feel and react like the one before it, without the convincing traits given to the planes in question (other than nice mapping, textures and decent modeling).

It would be a wonderful game to film in, unfortunately I do not have the type of camera control I would love. I just don't feel that as a study simulation this will meet everyone's expectations. In all of my flights, even under advanced flight, all I had to do was use my throttle stick and rudder with absolutely no regard for my engine (short of not using WEP for too long).

So, yes, I very much disagree this is a true simulation along the lines of DCS or Rise of Flight, or even many of the warbirds built for FSX. It's fun, but pretty isn't everything. I'll get some fun flights every once in a while shooting down 109s however.

[EDIT] Lastly, forgive my crude spelling and grammatical mistakes. I'm too tired to go back and fix them all, but after reading it through I am at least keenly aware of them.

[DennyA]

(I dare say for those looking for a very serious simulation hold out)

Hold out for WHAT exactly? It's not 1997, there's not exactly a stream of upcoming sims in development.

No, it's not a realistic combat environment. But then again, neither is the popular IL-2's sterile, dead battlefield, nor is FSX's air traffic.

What this is, is a fun and entertaining sim with enough of a nod to realism that you won't scream "arcade silliness" when you try to fly the plane, and the unrealistic elements that are there are geared towards making the virtual air combat an entertaining experience.

I'm not arguing your points that this isn't a dead-on authentic WW2 experience. But what is? And what's coming that is?

"Hold out" is the worst advice possible for a near-dead genre when you have a product out there that is fun, that has awesome production values, and is only the second all-new combat sim to come out in the past 7 years. If these guys can't find customers for this sim, who's going to decide to make any new sims in the future?

The developers have shown they're receptive to feedback. Don't hold out. Buy Wings of Prey, hop on their boards, tell them what you like, and tell them what you'd like to see in future revisions. THAT's the best thing you can do to help ensure that there are flight sims in the future.

If you're looking for a "serious sim," then lighten up and let yourself enjoy the quality "mid-range" sims when they come out, and provide constructive feedback to the developers. Then you might very well get a serious sim someday if the genre can get kickstarted. If you sit back, keep your price-of-one-dinner-out-with-the-family cash to yourself, and just complain that everything's arcade pap, you'll be stuck playing Falcon 4.0 and IL-2 for all eternity.

[CodyValkyrie]

Hold out for WHAT exactly? It's not 1997, there's not exactly a stream of upcoming sims in development.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to start any issues here, I'm just stating that some purists might not enjoy this sim. Since there is a demo, naturally people can find out for themselves. For me, unfortunately, I won't be spending a lot of time with it.

As for what is out there:
-IL2
-BoBII
-DCS series
-RoF

There are others as well. A full list is beyond the scope of this conversation and is beyond the context and message I am trying to portray.

No, it's not a realistic combat environment. But then again, neither is the popular IL-2's sterile, dead battlefield, nor is FSX's air traffic.

I do not disagree, but it also depends on what you are looking for.

What this is, is a fun and entertaining sim with enough of a nod to realism that you won't scream "arcade silliness" when you try to fly the plane, and the unrealistic elements that are there are geared towards making the virtual air combat an entertaining experience.

I do not disagree.

I'm not arguing your points that this isn't a dead-on authentic WW2 experience. But what is? And what's coming that is?

I am not at liberty to say. There are however alternatives for those looking for a high end simulation.

"Hold out" is the worst advice possible for a near-dead genre when you have a product out there that is fun, that has awesome production values, and is only the second all-new combat sim to come out in the past 7 years. If these guys can't find customers for this sim, who's going to decide to make any new sims in the future?

Perhaps you need to rethink your statement. Saying this is the second all-new combat sim to come out in the past seven years is a broad brush to be painting with. I could put a nice list up, including some of the games listed above and others. I digress though, again off of my point and certainly only further inflaming what appears to be a hot topic.

The developers have shown they're receptive to feedback. Don't hold out. Buy Wings of Prey, hop on their boards, tell them what you like, and tell them what you'd like to see in future revisions. THAT's the best thing you can do to help ensure that there are flight sims in the future.

I do not disagree again. I would like to point out that I also help with many of the developers here on this board, and I feel I have a decent heartbeat of what at least the FSX community is looking for. That is however not to say that many here will not find this a fun game. All I said is that for those looking for a high end simulation of combat, this may not be their ultimate answer. I didn't state the game was rubbish, I only accounted for a few reasons why I felt it wasn't a study simulation.

There is honestly no reason to be so defensive in this, and I am puzzled by your defense of the subject. In my case, I tried this game several months ago on the X-Box and the fun factor died for me after a few days of enjoying the game. I didn't realize at download however this was the same game, but I knew right away when I loaded it. Regardless, I spent a few hours playing it. As I said, I probably won't again. For me, I am moreso concerned with not only the combat, but the application of tactics, equipment realism and other factors. Unfortunately, there are few games for me that offer this. My experience won't necessarily match others, but I think it is clear that I personally enjoy a pure simulation than a limited one. As it is my hobby to decide what I like or don't like, I am entitled to my opinion, and may share it.

If you're looking for a "serious sim," then lighten up and let yourself enjoy the quality "mid-range" sims when they come out, and provide constructive feedback to the developers. Then you might very well get a serious sim someday if the genre can get kickstarted. If you sit back, keep your price-of-one-dinner-out-with-the-family cash to yourself, and just complain that everything's arcade pap, you'll be stuck playing Falcon 4.0 and IL-2 for all eternity.

I do not appreciate these kinds of comments. What I choose to do is my own, but I will say I have spent plenty of time working with and for teams doing exactly that, developing core simulations. Just because I make an off the cuff comment that this game is not a hard core simulation is not meant to demean the product itself, and it is clear to me that a lot of time has been spent developing it. What I don't appreciate however is that I somehow need to lighten up and enjoy a simulation that you clearly enjoy. I do not personally enjoy a game such as this because I cannot find more than a few minutes of depth when playing it. For me, I gain my enjoyment out of the management of the aircraft as much as the combat, and I like to learn of the individual planes respective weaknesses and powers and systems. This does not offer that level of simulation, so therefor I cannot enjoy it. So it is what it is I guess. You enjoy the game. There is nothing stopping you from doing so, but do not express to me my need to "lighten up" because I do not see eye to eye with you about it.

I am not condemning this title. In many ways it pushes new boundaries and concepts, especially graphically in the flight sim genre. I will not however pretend this sim is enjoyable for myself and what my preferences are. I am sure that many will agree. I am also sure many won't. But please, don't tell me what I should or should not do.

[EDIT] For what it is worth, since my comments are already stated, I seek no reason to remove them. As someone who works with many developers however I have found once again that my personal opinions should not be stated publicly in such a manner. For those who potentially see my comments as negative, please feel free to come to your own conclusions. This is a good game and many will enjoy it.

[DennyA]

Thanks, Cody. Between our two differing viewpoints on this, people should find plenty of info to make an informed decision.

I'd urge folks to at least try the free demo to see if it's something they might have fun with. I do strongly feel that it's critical for the community to support sim developers. I'm not saying buy something you don't want, but if you're on the edge of making a decision, err on the side of helping send a message that this genre can matter again to software publishers.

[CodyValkyrie]

Thanks, Cody. Between our two differing viewpoints on this, people should find plenty of info to make an informed decision.

I'd urge folks to at least try the free demo to see if it's something they might have fun with. I do strongly feel that it's critical for the community to support sim developers. I'm not saying buy something you don't want, but if you're on the edge of making a decision, err on the side of helping send a message that this genre can matter again to software publishers.

The state of flight simulation has indeed seen better days. I daresay however we are better off than we were even 5 years ago however. It seems simming has started to spark up a bit with new titles starting to be released.

I like that they included a demo. It gives enough of an idea for one to truly decide for themselves if this is something they will enjoy.

I also would like to point out that giving developer's a thumbs up is also a good thing as well as good communication with them when stating any issues. It is easy for developers to be put off by negative feedback when things when they feel they are on the defensive.

I wonder if this team will be licensing this engine....? That would be absolutely brilliant!

[deathfromafar]

First of all, what is this doing in the FSX forum since it isn't FSX. Secondly, for the point that thegame/simulation isn't being demeaned, a lot of time and effort is going into negative dissection of it. I strongly disagree that so called "purists" might not like it. I have been flying sims of many types since the late 80's up to now. Amazing how much has changed in terms of realism since those days. I started actual primary training in the early 90's and I have a Commercial Pilots License, CFI, CFII, and MEI ratings along with now a few type ratings in list. Not to burst developers bubbles here but I can speak that without a doubt in my mind that there is not a single FS model or stand alone sim/game that is anywhere near being 100% capable of replicating every system and detailed aspect of the real plane the sim is trying to model. That is a pipe dream at best. My hat is off the the devs who try to produce these sim models. They have done a hell of a lot to move forward PC based simulation but there are still glaring limitations. I can tell you that if you take any hard core PC pilot(who flies complex PC/FS sim models) who doesn't hold an FAA License or Rating and drop them into a Full Level-D sim, I guarantee they will fall flat on their face trying to handle the flight dynamics and systems. The rubber meets the road when you get into real simulators and then go out and do your bounces in real life. Huge difference.

This sim/game as it is, is fun and has good depth/immersion to it. Fun being the key word and not leaving the user bogged down trying to manage systems around a VC by mouse clicking rather than a mock-cockpit surrounding them.


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[TheOptimist]

I downloaded the demo a few days ago and have tried so hard to love it. I've been wanting a good WW2 flyer for years. Unfortunately, I don't like this at all.

The control system is the worst I have EVER seen in a game. Unless you are on a joystick it is almost completely unplayable. Furthermore, unless you have TrackIR or equivalent it is completely unplayable. This might be forgivable if it had vaguely realistic flight dynamics, but it doesn't. This game is the equivalent of trying to play pacman with every key on the keyboard having a function. Absolutely awful.

Graphics are gorgeous, sound is gorgeous, damage modelling is fairly decent, but the flight dynamics and control system is apocalyptically bad. It might be amazing with a joystick, but I don't have a joystick and don't want one. Why on earth they couldn't implement an FSX style mouse-yoke system is beyond me.

The one other thing I really hate is the blackout/redout features. This is a gripe with FSX as well (although in FSX you can' turn it off). You can't feel the G-force, so don't turn my screen black. The problem with this game is that when controlling with the keyboard, you have no control over the rate of turn etc. You cannot turn tightly WITHOUT constantly blacking out.

If I ever get a joystick and get used to TrackIR then I might pay this another visit. Until then I can't face the diabolical controls one more time.

"Hold out" is the worst advice possible for a near-dead genre when you have a product out there that is fun, that has awesome production values, and is only the second all-new combat sim to come out in the past 7 years. If these guys can't find customers for this sim, who's going to decide to make any new sims in the future?

The developers have shown they're receptive to feedback. Don't hold out. Buy Wings of Prey, hop on their boards, tell them what you like, and tell them what you'd like to see in future revisions. THAT's the best thing you can do to help ensure that there are flight sims in the future.?

What awful advice. I'm not buying a game just so I feel justified in telling them what's wrong with it. If I don't like it I don't buy it. I don't choose my purchases on some pity basis - if they expect me to part with MY money then they make a product that I like.

[deathfromafar]

The control system is the worst I have EVER seen in a game. Unless you are on a joystick it is almost completely unplayable. Furthermore, unless you have TrackIR or equivalent it is completely unplayable. This might be forgivable if it had vaguely realistic flight dynamics, but it doesn't. This game is the equivalent of trying to play pacman with every key on the keyboard having a function. Absolutely awful.

Graphics are gorgeous, sound is gorgeous, damage modelling is fairly decent, but the flight dynamics and control system is apocalyptically bad. It might be amazing with a joystick, but I don't have a joystick and don't want one. Why on earth they couldn't implement an FSX style mouse-yoke system is beyond me.

The one other thing I really hate is the blackout/redout features. This is a gripe with FSX as well (although in FSX you can' turn it off). You can't feel the G-force, so don't turn my screen black. The problem with this game is that when controlling with the keyboard, you have no control over the rate of turn etc. You cannot turn tightly WITHOUT constantly blacking out.

If I ever get a joystick and get used to TrackIR then I might pay this another visit. Until then I can't face the diabolical controls one more time.

How can that be considered a fair assessment if you don't have a proper control system?

Having a joystick is definitely a prerequisite with this sim. Trying to fly it without one I would agree can't be any fun. I have mine set up and mapped with my Saitek X52 and it works fine and the control feel is solid as it gets. I do not use Track IR and still get quick and accurate view/head movement via the Hat Switches. The flight dynamics are fine and the blackout/redout function isn't an issue if you're not being ham handed with it same as a real aircraft. Pull too hard and bad things happen.

In my group of Flightsim Enthusiasts there are two former Fighter Pilots. One a retired F-16 driver, the other flew F-4's back in the day. We all have this game/sim and these two guys felt it to be a good, fun, and credible effort for a "PC combat simulation".