FSX - New PC Advice

[Bradburger]

I'm in the process of stating to put together a list of components for a new PC that will hopefully run FSX well and at the higest detail levels possible.

I've been asking advice from various people in the know regarding the latest hardware, but I thought I'd also ask the FSX users here for their thoughts and advice.

Now, it seems as far as the CPU/MB/RAM go, I've been advised of something along these lines:

CPU : Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 LGA775 'Yorkfield' 2.83GHz 12MB-cache (1333FSB)

MB : Asus P5Q Pro Intel P45 (Socket 775)

RAM : 2 X G.Skill 4GB DDR2 PQ PC2-8000C5 (2x2GB) CAS5 Dual Channel Kit

Cooler : Noctua NH-U12P CPU Cooler (Socket AM2/LGA775)

Or -

CPU : As above

MB : Asus Rampage Formula Intel X48 PCI-Express DDR2 Motherboard

RAM : GeIL 8GB PC2-6400C4 800MHz

Cooler : Tuniq Tower 120 CPU Cooler

Whilst I could spend extra £££ on the Quad Q9650 3.0GHz 'Yorkfield', I wonder if it's worth it, as it seems the Q9550 overclocks past 3.0GHz well.

As for the GFX card, I plan on getting a 24" monitor, and have been advised to go for either the GeForce GTX 280, or Radeon HD 4870 X2 series of cards. Now, I did read a review at (I think) Tom's Hardware comparing these two cards, and it seems that the GTX 280 actually got better FPS in FSX than the HD 4870 X2.

In view of this, I've had my eye on the BFG GeForce GTX 280 OCX 1024MB GDDR3 TV-Out/Dual DVI, which although pricey, has the fastest core clock in the series which is important for FSX.

So, what do you think?

Are the components above good enough to run FSX at high detail levels and good FPS?

And is the GTX 280 OCX a better choice than the HD 4870 X2?

Cheers

Paul

[MCDesigns]

Are the components above good enough to run FSX at high detail levels and good FPS?

Nope! You would need some extreme hardware to come close to max settings with FSX

FSX is funny as there is no set standard of hardware that you can bet on. I have seen posted top of the line rigs that struggle with 20FPS and then you have my rig which is less that stellar and I get decent performance, at higher settings, locked at 30. so you never know.

I helped a friend set up his $4000 Alienware system 2 months ago and he let me test FSX on it. Every setting maxed/on, 1950 resolution, KLAX with default AI, real world weather on with updates, in the default lear................average of 12 fps, really disappointing, BUT the good thing is with FSX, it has such detail maxed out that you can turn down lots of those settings and still have crisp textures and visuals and have a great experience, so it is all about expectations.

Things I would suggest, the most CPU power you can afford. I would go with more than 2 gigs of RAM, especially if you plan to use Vista. Keep in mind that bandwidth (FSB) is the main bottleneck with FSX, I'd go with 1600 instead of 1333 on the FSB and get some RAM with a higher Mhz if possible.
As for the GPUs, both are good and drivers will make the most out of those.

If I had to choose between your two options, I'd go with the second one, I like that MOBO.

If you can wait, the new Core i7 chips will be out soon and they supposedly have a SIGNIFICANT gain in performance.

[harleyman]

The second one by far............

My set up...Sweet ......

Case: Thermaltake VH8000BWS BK
Power: ThermalTake W0178RU 850W RT SLI Edition
MoBo: GIGABYTE GA-X48-DQ6 775 X48
CPU: INTEL|C2D E8600 3.33G 775 6M
CPU Cooler: Artic Pro 7
GPU: VISIONTEK Radion 900250 HD4870X2 2G
Mem: OCZ 2X2 @ 1066
HD1: 150 Gig Raptor @ 10,000
HD2: 300G VelociRaptor @ 10,000
OS: XP Pro SP 3

[Bjoern]

The CPU is an excellent choice. Got a Q9450 (OC'ed) myself and can't complain at all!
If you want to overclock, go for the X48 if you have the bucks.

As for the graphics card, I'd suggest the GTX280. I think they have a better memory interface (512bit?) than the other cards.


By the way, if you need a new HDD, go for a Samsung SpinpointF1. Got one on order myself and from what I've read they're the fastest HDDs out there.

[Bradburger]

Thanks everyone so far.

I figured from reading many posts by others that I will not be able to run everything at max settings, but should be able to find a 'sweet spot' for best performance/fps.

Sorry if I wasn't clear about the amount of RAM, as it's actually 8Gb total in both specs, which is probably overkill but then I suppose with DDR2 prices being what they are, it's worth it!

I've already chosen the Samsung Spinpoint F1, although as it was the 1TB model and I was advised not to use it as the boot drive, but for storage only as a smaller size one will be faster. Might have to spend a bit more cash and get a 10,0000 Rpm Raptor too!

And it looks like the GTX 280 is the GFX card to choose.

But it might well be best to wait until the Core i7 chips are out though as MCDesigns says!

Cheers

Paul

[kilo delta]

You'll definately be able to run FSX with all sliders to the right and a good FPS with that setup....providing you overclock the chip a little (~3.6GHZ would be perfect). Go with the X48 board and go with 4GB of faster memory rather than the 8gb of pc6400. Samsung F1 is a great choice (i've 2 in my pc) although bear in mind that some people are suffering from premature failures of these hard drives (have not come across this on mine or any of the PC's i've put together for friends and clients).
The ATi HD4870 will easily run FSX at high fps without issue. If you've more money to spend i'd suggest the HD4870X2.......best bang for buck top end card that's available at the moment. If going for an Nvidia card the GTX260 is plenty meaty enough.....though bear in mind that you will not be able to run SLi on the X48 boards (not needed anyhow as all of these cards will easily run up to 1920x1200 resolution).

Re: the upcoming i7 chips.

Please bear in mind that these will be new technology and will be rather expensive to purchase on initial launch. There will be new motherboards (eg X58) for these chips and these too will be expensive and will most likely be buggy too. You'll also need DDR3 memory. Not putting you off the idea of i7 builds......just suggesting that if you really want to go i7 i'd wait till Summer '09.

[harleyman]

I have heard thru the grapevine that the i7 chip will not offer much for FSX...... It will give gains, but from what I've heard I'm not even going to consider it till FS 11 is out...


I must add this...I have been an Nvidia fan for ever till I got a 4870X2 a couple months back...
I have never seen such color or depth in FSX or FS9 ever.....

[txnetcop]

Thanks everyone so far.

I figured from reading many posts by others that I will not be able to run everything at max settings, but should be able to find a 'sweet spot' for best performance/fps.

Sorry if I wasn't clear about the amount of RAM, as it's actually 8Gb total in both specs, which is probably overkill but then I suppose with DDR2 prices being what they are, it's worth it!

I've already chosen the Samsung Spinpoint F1, although as it was the 1TB model and I was advised not to use it as the boot drive, but for storage only as a smaller size one will be faster. Might have to spend a bit more cash and get a 10,0000 Rpm Raptor too!

And it looks like the GTX 280 is the GFX card to choose.

But it might well be best to wait until the Core i7 chips are out though as MCDesigns says!

Cheers

Paul

Paul from what I have seen this week at TechCorp, I would drop the GTX280 off a cliff and choose the ATI 4870 X2 or 4870OC. If you insist on Nvidia the 8800GTX Ultra is still a great card. Just google some reviews on the 280GTX vs HD4870x2. Not only is the HD4870x2 much faster it also reneders better graphics. What I would do if I were you is find a brick and mortar store and demo both. The X48 is the without the doubt the easiest board to overclock and very stable. It also used more real copper instead of copper colored aluminum for cooling.

X-58 is real super system for 40% of the games out there, but until we get better coding for FSX, X-Plane and other games it isn't going to make a lot of difference I'm afraid. We've benched a bunch, and have been a little disappointed that the software actually creates the problem for some really fine and fast hardware. There was a jump of about 8fps-10fps in FSX with new Nehalem processors and MSI and Gigabyte boards-ASUS X-58 did not do as well for some reason. Nvidia has yet to send us their latest, there were severe heating problems with the first batch.
Ted

[kilo delta]

Ted....what resolutions are you testing at? I game at 2560x1600 exclusively now....though I'm considering another rebuild soon :isadizzy:

[harleyman]

Ted....what resolutions are you testing at? I game at 2560x1600 exclusively now....though I'm considering another rebuild soon :isadizzy:

Dude......Lay off the NewEgg buy now button........:costumes:

Its just a thing huh?????????????:d

[kilo delta]

I admit that I've an addiction:costumes: Unfortunately Newegg don't ship to Europe so I'll be purchasing in Euro. Might get my gfx for free tho' ;p
4 Pc's and 9 laptops at present....can't be right!:isadizzy:

[Bjoern]

I've already chosen the Samsung Spinpoint F1, although as it was the 1TB model and I was advised not to use it as the boot drive, but for storage only as a smaller size one will be faster. Might have to spend a bit more cash and get a 10,0000 Rpm Raptor too!

If you really want the Raptor make sure to cool it actively! That rpm number just screams for it!


As for the GPU, a respected IT engineer and fellow flightsimmer told me once that the most crucial components of a video card for FSX are the memory interface and the clock speeds. Thus, he only recommends fast cards with a big interface, namely the old G80 (8800GTS)/GTX/Ultra and the current 260GTX and 280GTX, the only cards with an interface in excess of 256bit.
A bigger interface reduces chances of having a bottleneck between GPU and memory when processing huge amounts of data; it doesn't make the card faster itself.
See it like an autobahn. Two lanes per side, no speed limit. But if traffic increases you will be slowed down. Increase the width to four lanes per side and you can keep the pedal to the metal because traffic flow is improved. The only difference is your car. Your old Golf Mk II may not go as fast as a new MkV, but on an eight lane autobahn, a Mk II will get just as many passengers to its destination as a new MkV on a four lane one, but maybe not as fast as its successor.
What would be the perfect combination now?
Right, MkVs on eight lanes.

You will only get that with the new 2*0GTX cards from NVidia.

Or take the riced up MkIIs, say an overclocked 8800GTX/Ultra. But be prepared for the fuel (power consumption) and heat (heat) bill!


I don't want to discredit the 4870X2, but isn't it simply two RVxxx chips crossfired on one board? And doesn't FSX dislike crossfire/SLI?

4 Pc's and 9 laptops at present....can't be right!:isadizzy:

If you have a spare 8800GTX, I'd take it. :d

[harleyman]

All I really can cay about the 4870X2 is that the Core Clock speed is 750 and the Memory Clock speed is 800 x2

[Bjoern]

The memory is 2*1024 Mbytes and the interface is 2*256bit.

As I said, I doubt FSX uses the second chip at all, but I could be wrong...

[txnetcop]

Bjoern, the cold hard facts are the the ATI HD4870x2 is substantially faster in every game but two. But the real winning factor for ATI is the number of shader processes that make for unbelievably great looking frames. Now, honestly beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so I will grant that. No, the HD4870x2 is not exactly a Xfire configuration per se, one GPU actually can boost performance of the other GPU hence it is faster even in FSX and renders better textures faster than the GTX280.

Now here is the interesting part. We tested 22 video cards with a better than 128 bit interface from 8800s(G92) to GTX280s for Nividia, and 3850s to HD4870 x2 for ATI. All of these cards were tested on two i7cores and the rest on QX9650s. The only game....uh or sims that it didn't really make a huge difference in was FSX and X-Plane at resolutions up to 1680x1050, at over 1900x1200 the HD4850s to HD4870s for ATI, and the 8800GTX, 9800GT2, and GTX280 actually gained some fps leaving the other behind, but out of this group none were substantially better than the other in fps than the other in FSX. The graphics varied and everyone knows that Nvidia has graphics issues similar to what ATI went through with the late DX9 cards.

The overalll winners in speed by 2 fps were the 8800GTX ultra and the HD4870x2 which beat the Ultra by 1 fps with all sliders right. Even gaming at the 2500 resolution made little difference in these two.

When the high end Nvidias and ATI were hooked up with the i7cores there was about a 10-12 fps increase across the board but again not much real difference in fps between them except for the Ultra and the HD4870x2. Again these two came out on top.

OK, I cannot name mfgs because TechCorp tests for many mfgs and we are not allowed to publish our results in detail to the public. The information on each component part is sent back to the mfg

If you waiting for Nehalem to be the answer for a very fast FSX, you may be waiting a while until all the cores are released. Ten fps would not be enough of an incentive to pay the kind of money that will be required to build a i7core right away. The bigger cores will be released later in 2009.

Now something interesting is that most of the X58 boards with N200 chip will be able to run SLI or Xfire if you just aren't sure which way the wind will blow on which video card. The Gigabyte, MSI and the ASUS P6T Deluxe boards looks like a sure fire winners to me for purists who want to run very fast and water cooled, with ASUS probably coming out on top however the BIOS is complex. However, again FSX and X-Plane lag behind some other games in benefitting from i7cores. Microsoft will likely have to drop backward compatibility altogether, but also do remember that FSX and X-plane look at a much broader area to fill in order create the illusion of flight within a whole world (and beyond) for thier simulation.

If you like games like Assasins Creed, COD4, Brothers In Arms, Silent Hunter, BIOSHOCK, and some of the new racing games you will love the results with the faster i7 core processors and X58.

Well I have reports to write and I will be as specific later as I am allowed to be. I signed an agreement not to release specifics as that would break our mfgs agreements. It was fun, fun, fun. I will go back later next week to test the Nvidia boards, which were unavailable.

Ted

[harleyman]

Great stuff there Txnetcop...Thanks for all that info......


Now if we could just get MS to recode this thing all would be gravy....:d

[Bjoern]

Bjoern, the cold hard facts are the the ATI HD4870x2 is substantially faster in every game but two.
...
No, the HD4870x2 is not exactly a Xfire configuration per se, one GPU actually can boost performance of the other GPU hence it is faster even in FSX and renders better textures faster than the GTX280.

Fair enough, looks like ATI finally has a winner again.

[harleyman]

Bjoern..It is a smoker....I love mine, so does my wife as she's getting one too now....

[Bjoern]

It wouldn't fit into my case, so it's not really an option for me.

[harleyman]

It wouldn't fit into my case, so it's not really an option for me.

Ahhhh man......That bites.... Need a bigger one next time I guess as all the hardware id getting bigger...

[Bjoern]

Ahhhh man......That bites.... Need a bigger one next time I guess as all the hardware id getting bigger...

No way, GPU manufacturers should rather make their cards smaller.

[harleyman]

No way, GPU manufacturers should rather make their cards smaller.

You know..They make everything else smaller thesedays.......

YEA...What he said.......:d

[kilo delta]

The HD4870X2 is the same length as the Nvidia 8800GTX...so you're good to go, Bjoern

[GT182]

One thing I wish someone would make is... a converter for AGP slot to PCI-express. Then we could use the newer video cars on our old AGP motherboards. I kick my self for not getting a motherboard with both AGP and PCI-express when I had the chance.

[Bjoern]

The HD4870X2 is the same length as the Nvidia 8800GTX...so you're good to go, Bjoern

No, I'm not. My 8800GTS (23cm) and my new Spinpoint F1 sit back to back...no way I could ever squeeze an 8800GTX (27cm) in there!


The next upgrade will be a new tower. I'm sick of having to stick my fingers into gaps between sharp edges and cables made for kids hands.