A Lockeed Super Electra Challenge...

**pstrany** · November 7th, 2009, 11:57

Hi all;

As some of you know, I did a transport conversion of the Hudson as flown by the Chinese AF (available here at SOH in the CFS2 section.) As I had recently acquired an image of a Lockheed Super Electra, RAF regigistration AX682, in service with 267th Sqdn, RAF in the Mediterranean, I decided to do a Super Electra conversion of the Hudson model.

In researching this, I was drawn to a story about Howard Hughes' flight around the world in 1938. You can read about the story here:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...2/ai_n9078206/
Turns out this was a very similar aircraft to AX682. Even more interesting is that this aircraft was sold to The British at about the same time as AX682. Howard Hughes' record-breaker received the registration AX688, and was lost in Egypt when she crashed with the loss of all on board during takeoff.

Now, to the challenge part. I might be interested in building NX18973 as configured for her round-the-world flight, but I need two bits of information. I need a good frontal shot of the nose of this aircraft, as it appears to have some sort of an opening or glazing on the extreme nose. I am also looking for some kind of guidance to the internal arrangement of this aircraft.

I'm also looking for some kind panel builder who might be willing to help with the cockpit instrumentation. VC's are not my strong suite to begin with, and all the fiddly gauges and all drive me

.

Hoping I will get some info to complete this before a wild hair takes me off in another direction....

Paul

**norab** · November 7th, 2009, 13:14

These pages may help a little
http://www.abpic.co.uk/search.php?q=...Electra&u=type

http://www.lakelandgov.net/library/s...hes_pics1.html

HTH

**pstrany** · November 7th, 2009, 13:31

Thanks for your efforts. The nose image is helpful, but would be better head on. I'm assuming that there is some sort of transparency on the nose, but why? Might be fore a radio sensor of some sort, but would really like to have a better idea of the shape.

That is also an excellent photo of the 1939 World's Fair emblem. What do you think? Black lettering and a red background behind "New York World's Fair"?

Oh, and I found a layout of the interior of NX18973 in an old Wings magazine. For a crew of 5, there was not much room to stretch out......

Paul

***srgalahad*** · November 7th, 2009, 17:04

Wouldn't surprise me if it was the same glazing as the Hudson, with a metal shield inside to reduce glare and reflection from a large searchlight or possibly just a way for crews to see into the area of the oil tank and flotation bag.

Odd thing about the logo - it wasn't the official one. By the time the Fair opened all the media showed the Trylon and Perisphere. It might have been a temp. design for Hughes or the organizing committee until a design was chosen. Seeing the "1" overlap the arc and showing a bit of contrast I wonder if the text was red, the arc black and the graphic behind the text to be a blue. Hopefully one of the painters out there who's used to interpreting B&W photos can make an educated guess.

Amazingly Flight magazine paid little attention to the flight or aircraft

**t.creed** · November 7th, 2009, 18:39

my guess..because Howard was involved..a camera was behind the glass for filming the trip..

rgds
t.creed

**pstrany** · November 7th, 2009, 19:57

Let's see. Camera would be a possibility. Quite a few of the early model 14s had the DF loop in the nose position under a plexiglass nosepiece. This is a bit different than those installations, so I'm really puzzled here. A good photo would answer a world of questions.

Blew up the jpeg of the nose, and I found some interesting things (see below.) It would appear that the letters are a different color than the background "flag", appearing a bit darker (but not black.) The semi-circle around the logo seems to be two colors, amid-level color and possibly black. Next, and more interesting, I think the "official" logo actually DOES appear, in white behind the lettering. I interpret (1) as the spire, (2) as a base line, and (3) as the sphere. All would appear to be in white. I've included a quick interpretation below as to how I see the logo as possibly appearing.

This is where a color photo would be an incredible help.......

Paul

**Drzook** · November 7th, 2009, 20:08

I thought it might be a landing light of some sort but Tcreed's guess that it might be a camera port of some sort certainly has some merit.

***Moses03*** · November 7th, 2009, 20:55

This was all I could scare up Paul. Looks like the DF loop from this angle.

**norab** · November 7th, 2009, 20:58

It would appear from looking at a number of images that the official colors of the fair were orange and blue

so, just a guess, but it would seem likely that they should be the colors in the logo and you observed that it didn't appear to be black

**bpfowler** · November 8th, 2009, 09:20

found this note:
"They were guided by the most reassuring set of flying gadgets ever packed into a private airplane including a homing radio compass to keep them on course by taking bearings from ships at sea, a new periscopic drift indicator, a gyro-pilot which did most of the flying and a powerful radio transmitter which radio linked them to a towering trylon antenna at the New York World's Fair."

where was the periscopic drift indicator usually located?

**Volker Böhme** · November 8th, 2009, 09:55

Hi,

at the bottom of the plane.

Sorry, couldn't miss out on the response. Probably in the nav station.

Best regards,
Volker

***Moses03*** · November 8th, 2009, 11:49

The "transparency" on the nose looks to me more like just the unusual shape of the plexiglass. This photo from Popular Mechanics 1938.

(OT) Seeing the bits that norab posted, I wonder if that is where the New York Mets uniform colors originated?

**Volker Böhme** · November 8th, 2009, 22:10

Hi Paul,

great project. Updating the Hudsons for CFS2 was a great idea for the FS9 world as well. Once you're at it, any plans to do a true airliner version with a metal nose and twin pilot's seats?

Best regards,
Volker

***srgalahad*** · November 8th, 2009, 23:12

Paul, I've been digging and so far Hughes' plane is the only one I've seen with that specific nose.
I did find a Lodestar with a variation (landing lights) - note that the pitot tubes are also mounted on the 'snout'. However the lights are clearly visible, even from the side.

http://www.adastron.com/lockheed/lodestar/vh-xus.htm

Crossed my mind though that (1) Hughes was well into the Hollywood mode by 1938; (2) the World's Fair was a big technology show; and (3) he WAS going to be flying over Russia... a tilt-adjustable movie camera would fit nicely behind a perspex nose with part of it blocked to reduce glare from the side...

***srgalahad*** · November 9th, 2009, 00:29

I think this postcard confirms norab's suggestion and solves the colour issue

"The colors blue and orange were chosen as the official colors of the fair, as they were the colors of New York City, and featured prominently."
http://wapedia.mobi/en/1939_New_York_World%27s_Fair

Just for the fun of it, here's a couple of links about the fair itself
http://www.pmphoto.to/worlds_fair/wf_tour/index.htm
http://www.nypl.org/research/chss/sp...s/nywf39fa.pdf

**norab** · November 9th, 2009, 04:52

a thought on the nose transparency, maybe a spotlight to help verify landmarks, coastlines, etc and to aid landings on unlighted fields

FlyTexas · November 9th, 2009, 05:17

Originally Posted by Volker Böhme

Once you're at it, any plans to do a true airliner version with a metal nose and twin pilot's seats?

Best regards,
Volker

That would be so nice!

Brian

**bpfowler** · November 9th, 2009, 06:09

built for cfs2, how does one import it into fs9? great plane for the vintage scenes.

***OBIO*** · November 9th, 2009, 08:35

bp

All of Pstrany's Lockheeds work perfectly in FS2004. Need some tweaking to the lights, fuel, weight placements...but the planes fly wonderfully, have really good ground behavior....They were created for CFS2 sure enough, but they are superb fliers in FS2004...and since they are multi-resolution, they can be used as AI aircraft as well. You can download Paul's Hudsons here:

http://www.virtualwings.org/hudson/index.htm

OBIO

**bpfowler** · November 9th, 2009, 16:10

many thanks sir!
got some chinese ai to try.

**mrogers** · November 9th, 2009, 23:59

That would be great, a Lockheed super electra! I think the perspex nose has a DF loop in it, by the look of it in the frontal photo shot of it a few posts back.

I would like to see a solid nose version come out too, please!

**Maarten -** · November 10th, 2009, 04:57

Yes please, I agree with Volker, Brian and mrogers. Would be nice to make repaints for KLM, KLM West Indies Division and KNILM Super Electras.

Cheers,
Maarten

**pstrany** · November 10th, 2009, 06:18

Hi all;

kind of laid low right now with flu (don't think it is swine, but it sure is a pig!)

Solid nose version should be no problem, I'd actually planned on doing PH-APE. There are others I'd like to do if I can ever find out where the air intake was located for the P&W Hornet engine.

Pounding head, going back to bed now......

Paul

**Maarten -** · November 10th, 2009, 06:30

Get well Paul. And drink something that makes you really sweat. (cognac or something like it)

Looking forward to the goodies. Many thanks in advance.

Cheers,
Maarten