Computers - Making Sense Of It All

[Pips]

I'm a moron when it comes to computers, and tech talk gives me a headache. :isadizzy: To me they are simply a tool to use to fly my sims. But since I bought FSX I've been forced into trying to understand their inner-workings, in an effort to get the most out of my system.

I d/loaded this super little programme called SiSoftware SandraLite, which provides excellent detail as to what my system is actually made up of. One of the programmes actually allows you to compare your system with others - a neat feature.

My basic system details are:
Processor: Intel Pentium D CPU 3.00GHz
Mainboard: ASRock 4CoreDual-VSTA
RAM: 2GB DDR2
Graphics Card: Gigabyte ATI Radeon HD4850 (1GB DDR3)
Windows XP 5.01.2600 SP3

Correct me if I'm wrong but I understand that the single biggest factor to improving FSX performance is in the CPU. So I was a wondering if I replace the Pentium D with a Intel i7 920 (which I can get for just under $360.00 Aus) is that the best move?

Cheers.

[txnetcop]

Pips:
Several things need to be considered before you buy:

Are you intending to do the build yourself?
What other apps do you run?
What other games do you or will you play now and in the future?
How much did you want to spend?

It doesn't make much sense today not to go with anything less than a Core i5 or Core i7. Penryn is OK and if set up well they run FSX very well, but like it or not the future is Nehalem Core. The i7 920 D0 stepping CPU is inexpensive and very easy to overclock. If you have more to spend the i7 965 or 975 is really nice, but not necessary just for FSX if that is all you intend to use. Put the most money in your CPU, motherboard, and memory (nothing less than DDR3 1600), Nvidia GTX 275-285 or ATI 5850 or ATI 5870 as the prices are very good, and the engineering is excellent.

I have a list of favorite parts I have tested at TechCorp if you are going to build your own, if not we have lots of builders in here. I don't do any computers outside of Texas, New Mexico, Oklahoma and Louisiana.
Ted

[Major_Spittle]

Pips-

An i7 920 processor will not work in your computer. The simple cheap solution would be to find a computer store that has a used Q6600 or Q6700 for around $70 - $100 US dollars that they would be willing to install for you (your bios would need updated first). These are some of the first Intel Quad core processors but will greatly increase performance. The difference between that and an i7 920 for FSX is about 40% performance wise. 20fps vs 28fps. It will be much better than the processor you are currently running.

To build an i7 system yourself you are looking at $500+ US dollars due to needing to replace your Motherboard, RAM, and Processor. You might also have to replace your computer case and power supply depending on what you currently have.

Good Luck. :ernae:

[harleyman]

Major_Spittle is correct...

You can not just install an i7 chip on your motherboard..

To keep the same motherboard you would need to move up to a quad core CPU (socket 775) and have the bios flashed first to run the CPU ....

[Pips]

Thanks for the replies guys. But you've lost me. Isn't the motherboard seperate from the proccessor? As in two different pieces of equipment? Is it nor possible to simply replace the processor now, and perhaps do the rest down the track?

If this sounds really dumb I did warm you that I'm a idiot - computer wise.

[harleyman]

No such thing as a dumb question...

Yes the CPU and the Motherboard are two seperate items...BUT

Your current motherboard is a CPU socket 775

The new i7 920 CPUs are a socket 1366


The socket is the place where the actual CPU sits(connects) on the motherboard. Being of different numbers, they have a different pin configuration , so one will not fit physically into the other.


It would be like trying to put a round block of wood into a square hole..



Then it actually goes a tad further with all the electronics built into the motherboard as to which CPU it is actually built to run..


Like putting a cessna engine on a fighter jet..Its just not built with the correct power and parts to move the fighter fast enough.

[harleyman]

So Pips...With them both being different...

To run the new i7 core CPUs...You would have to have a motherboard built to run it...

That motherboard is called an X58

You would need both CPU and motherboard...

If you get both you would then need to get new memory..Cause you would need DDR3 Tripple Channel Memory for the new X58 motherboard...





Your current motherboard only runs DDR2 Dual Channel memory...



Hope this all makes better sence for you now


To keep your current motherboard and memory you HAVE to run one of these socket 775 CPUs Pips...


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...name=LGA%20775


The CPUs with an *E* are all Dual core ones (2 cores)

The CPUs with a *Q* are all quad core ones(4 cores)

[txnetcop]

Pips you cannot use an i7 or i5 on your current motherboard. I assumed you were wanting to do a complete upgrade. That would entail a new motherboard and processor purchased at the same time. You see the new i5 and i7 CPUs are different socket sizes and will not fit in a 775 socket like you have now. In your case you would need to buy the CPU and the motherboard if you wanted to move up to an i5 or i7.

As Major Spittle and Harleyman said, you can upgrade your processor to a Penryn quad core Q9650 or a QX Extreme Quad core for that particular motherboard or you can overclock your Q6600 if you have not already done so.

My question now is, what are you wanting to do? What you have is capable of running FSX if that is all you are trying to do. I would not recommend spending much money on your existing setup. That particular ASROCK board is not a very fast motherboard (low bandwidth capability) and the memory options are very limited. I suspect your SiSandra comparison shows you are pretty low in the standings compared to other systems with the same CPU, and maybe even some older CPU/motherboard combinations. I have one more question: Is that unit a retail box, if so what brand and model number?
Ted

[Pips]

Thanks harley, that's crystal. Guess I'm going to have to budget for more than just the CPU then, if I want to get the i7. Still, at least I know what I'm looking for now.

As an alternative I could go with an Intel Core Quad as Major_Spittle suggested - as a stopgap it would still be much better than what I have at present, and will perhaps do me for six months to a year. Then I could better plan a major replacement system. I see that even the Q8400 and the Q9400 have the LGA775 pin, so would one of those CPU's be OK?

Cheers.

[Pips]

Sorry Ted, just saw you post.

My existing system does run FSX, albiet at very middle of the road settings eg
screen res 1680x1050;
Global settings medium high;
Scenery complexity normal
Autogen normal
water low 2
Weather medium low
Traffic zero

I limited frame rates to 20, but most of the time over countryside I fluctuate between 12 -17. Much lower (under 10) over towns eg Canberra, Adelaide. I spend almost all my time flying low and slow aircraft. FSX is my most demanding game, except for Over Flanders Field - which comes close. Other games such as BoB, IL-2. EAw etc run fine.

Other than the games I use the computer for work, but the programmes I run are fairly straight forward and not demanding at all.

As to what I'm after, is a system that will let me run FSX at reasonable framerates (I'd be happy with steady low 20's) with good levels of scenery/weather/water etc. At this stage I don't want to spend more than $500-600 Aus - that's why I was hopeful that I could simply replace the CPU with the Intel i7 (which retails for $360.00 Aus).

The unit is a retail box, bought several years ago with several changes over time. The case has a sticker on it with the name of the shop, but I don't think that's what your asking is it regarding "if so what brand and model number?" The only stamped name I can see is 'virgo', on the front of the case. Where should I be looking?

[txnetcop]

Pips I think you have a custom unit. I don't recognize the brand. Did you buy it from a local shop? I have an idea. Check and see what speed your memory is running at with Si Sandra and post the report. I know you have 2 GB but is it 533 or 667 memory that board will take 800 mhz memory I think which would be faster open up your bandwidth

Sorry Ted, just saw you post.

My existing system does run FSX, albiet at very middle of the road settings eg
screen res 1680x1050;
Global settings medium high;
Scenery complexity normal
Autogen normal
water low 2
Weather medium low
Traffic zero

I limited frame rates to 20, but most of the time over countryside I fluctuate between 12 -17. Much lower (under 10) over towns eg Canberra, Adelaide. I spend almost all my time flying low and slow aircraft. FSX is my most demanding game, except for Over Flanders Field - which comes close. Other games such as BoB, IL-2. EAw etc run fine.

Other than the games I use the computer for work, but the programmes I run are fairly straight forward and not demanding at all.

As to what I'm after, is a system that will let me run FSX at reasonable framerates (I'd be happy with steady low 20's) with good levels of scenery/weather/water etc. At this stage I don't want to spend more than $500-600 Aus - that's why I was hopeful that I could simply replace the CPU with the Intel i7 (which retails for $360.00 Aus).

The unit is a retail box, bought several years ago with several changes over time. The case has a sticker on it with the name of the shop, but I don't think that's what your asking is it regarding "if so what brand and model number?" The only stamped name I can see is 'virgo', on the front of the case. Where should I be looking?

[txnetcop]

I believe this is your motherboard. If so you are in a bit of pickle as you cannot even upgrade to Penryn Quad cores even with a BIOs flash. Check your PM Pips, I will see what I can do to help you for the amount of $$ you want to spend.

http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.as...ual-VSTA&s=775

These are the CPUs it will support:
http://www.asrock.com/mb/cpu.asp?Mod...ual-VSTA&s=775
Ted

[harleyman]

Wrong info given...Nevermind

[harleyman]

OK Pips...

With much discussion with Ted we came up with this .....

You need to first look into your PSUs polarity to use it for another mobo.

Look on the side panel info....

If it shows you as a +5 (not a -5) then you are all set to purchase a new mobo....



Now...to get into an i5, it will be like 800 bucks US


BUT.. We recomend this..I use it too with great results


M31 mobo Gigabyte.. $53.00 US
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128357


E 5200 CPU (overclocks well to 3.3) $64.00 US
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819116072


Then add faster ram at 1066 $75.00 US
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231226


Now maybe a new PSU that will run an i7 or i5 later on....

Corsair.....$100.00 US (has 52 Amps on the 12V+)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139005





Thats a grand Total US $292.00

[Major_Spittle]

Thanks harley, that's crystal. Guess I'm going to have to budget for more than just the CPU then, if I want to get the i7. Still, at least I know what I'm looking for now.

As an alternative I could go with an Intel Core Quad as Major_Spittle suggested - as a stopgap it would still be much better than what I have at present, and will perhaps do me for six months to a year. Then I could better plan a major replacement system. I see that even the Q8400 and the Q9400 have the LGA775 pin, so would one of those CPU's be OK?

Cheers.

Pips-

The Mother Board is part of the computer that EVERYTHING plugs into. Your Mother Board is an older Socket 775 (# of cpu pins). All because it has a 775 pin cpu socket does NOT mean it can run all 775 pin CPUs because it does not meet the correct Voltage and Frequency specs for most of the newer processors that are still sold in stores. This is not a bad thing though, because the older Quad core processors are cheap right now and will match up with your Memory and Video card perfectly for FSX. The Q6600,Q6700,QX6700,QX6800 are selling used now from $50 - $100 US dollars. They have 8MB of on the processor high speed cache memory so there is no noticable performance difference in FSX between the 800 DDR2 and 1066 DDR2 with that processor. All your computer needs is a simple bios flash and the processor installed. If you find a computer store with one of those 4 processors used they should be able to do it for you for less than $150 and still make $60 - $80 in profit for what amounts to 1 hr of labor.

Honestly this is what I would do if it were my money. Good luck and hopefully you can find a geek near you that would be willing to help you out. Sometimes High Schools (in the US anyway) have programs in which you can take your computer to them and they will upgrade it for you as a class project for just the cost of the parts. I know the High School near me has a program in which the kids teach basic computer classes for free after school and they will help you with upgrades and such one on one.

:USA-flag:

[Major_Spittle]

OK Pips...

With much discussion with Ted we came up with this .....

You need to first look into your PSUs polarity to use it for another mobo.

Look on the side panel info....

If it shows you as a +5 (not a -5) then you are all set to purchase a new mobo....



Now...to get into an i5, it will be like 800 bucks US


BUT.. We recomend this..I use it too with great results


M31 mobo Gigabyte.. $53.00 US
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128357


E 5200 CPU (overclocks well to 3.3) $64.00 US
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819116072


Then add faster ram at 1066 $75.00 US
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231226


Now maybe a new PSU that will run an i7 or i5 later on....

Corsair.....$100.00 US (has 52 Amps on the 12V+)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139005





Thats a grand Total US $292.00

His current system only uses a 20 pin power strip on the MB, so I would verify that the power supply has a 24 pin connector before planning on overclocking with that power supply. I tend to think he has an upgraded PWRS because of the Video Card he has, but would verify incase he is just using a Molex adaptor and has a weak single rail Power Supply like the ones that were common back in the 20 pin Pentium D era. :ernae:

[harleyman]

Good point Major_Spittle........:ernae:

[Pips]

Cheers guys, thanks for the extremely helpful suggestions. You've given me much food for thought, plus some very simple explanations on what to look for. I really appreciate it. I'll let you know what the final outcome is.

[harleyman]

Hopefully we did more than confuse you....:isadizzy: LOL

[txnetcop]

OK Pips I did this yesterday using FTX Aussieland scenery with the Gigabyte G31-M, E8400 Oc'd to 3.6Ghz, and ATI HIS Hd4850 Turbo. I could have locked the settings easily to 30 but you said 25fps and they stay there, well it does stay right at 25 even over the cities. FRAPS rates it a 22 avg. For less than a $400 upgrade it is worth it. Also look at the settings I have this system at. Save your big money for a Core i7 build later. BTW I also used the HD model of the Mooney exterior and interior from ORBX for an idea of frame rates at these settings. Hope this helps
Ted

[txnetcop]

more...all done in sequence so you can see the fps was solid.

[2Low]

I'm not meaning to thread jack and this is pertinant to the discussion. txnetcop what FSX config tweaks are you using to achieve that fps at those settings? It looks great.

[txnetcop]

You ain't gonna believe it...no tweaks except for LOD_RADIUS 6.5 and Texture Bandwidth at 22. I put the video card in my wife's computer and just cranked her system up it looked great but I had to make just two adjustments as stated here.
Ted

[2Low]

Ok, I'm pulling my extra card and trying that out, after I wake up this evening. Thanks.

[harleyman]

Ok, I'm pulling my extra card and trying that out, after I wake up this evening. Thanks.

I believe you might be surprised!