Difference between HD4850 and 4870 please

**michael davies** · March 28th, 2009, 09:54

As the title says, I cant really see much difference between the 4850 and 4870, other than price, its that tri monthly must update PC bug that does the rounds, FSx isnt doing it for me any more, it was OK but now stutters, weeks of fiddling lead to the same conclusion....upgrade, rather than throw lots of $$$ in one hit I'll progress piece meal, graphics card first, then a new CPU or mobo.

So do I pay the extra for the 4870, and will it give me that extra in FPS or is the 4850 a better bang for buck, not looking for the end of the world, just smooth with a little AG and 3D clouds.

Thanks in advance.

Kindest

Michael

harleyman · March 28th, 2009, 10:06

Being as FSx is teribly CPU bound, I would say you will not see much difference between the two.....

But the best 4870 by far is the HIS ICEQ.....

Stuttering is all together another issue...It has come to my attention that a new discovery towards stuttering and SP2 or Acceleration...It seems that if FSX and Acceleration(or SP2) sit on the same drive strange things will happen...

I have the same thing going on..With SP 2 installed, i get FSX perfect then out of nowhere ,with no updates or changes made, its gets stupid again.....

I have three drives and in the next few days I am doing it all over with FSX on a seperate drive and test the theory.....

I will post my findings...........

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814161265

**Bjoern** · March 28th, 2009, 11:03

The only difference between a 4850 and a 4870 is the video Ram. The smaller card uses "old" GDDR3, the bigger one new GDDR5.

Additionally, the clock speeds for both Ram and GPU are different, with the '50 having higher Ram clocks but lower GPU clocks compared to the '70.
With a good cooler though, you could easily bring the smaller card up to '70 level.

**michael davies** · March 28th, 2009, 11:33

Hi,

Unfortunately the online company I use doesn't appear to do a 4870 in HIS Ice Q4, they do a 4850 and being as I like the company and cant be bothered to set accounts up anywhere else the best does look to be the 4850, like I said, I dont want the end of the world, just smooth, its almost there now and I run a really old PC, a Sapphire 1950X Pro 256GB with an E6300 not overclocked CPU.

Price isnt really an issue if the 4870 is going to be better by a decent margin.

The real bitch is that it used to run pretty smooth but something I did recently messed it up, it isnt FSx, its something else, I've turned off nearly every back ground process ( had most turned off anyway as I hate surplus applications doing their thing in the back ground ) until I'm down to 18 running, but still it stutters in tight turns and ground textures cannot keep up above 120Knts at low level.

I did gain a lot by removing my SATA backup drive and cleaning up those drivers and turning it off in the BIOS but I think there is still something there, just enough to itch you crazy !.

Granted I may not see much of a difference but a 4850 has to be better than a 1950 Pro so its a step in the right direction ?.

Kindest

Michael

Originally Posted by harleyman

Being as FSx is teribly CPU bound, I would say you will not see much difference between the two.....

But the best 4870 by far is the HIS ICEQ.....

Stuttering is all together another issue...It has come to my attention that a new discovery towards stuttering and SP2 or Acceleration...It seems that if FSX and Acceleration(or SP2) sit on the same drive strange things will happen...

I have the same thing going on..With SP 2 installed, i get FSX perfect then out of nowhere ,with no updates or changes made, its gets stupid again.....

I have three drives and in the next few days I am doing it all over with FSX on a seperate drive and test the theory.....

I will post my findings...........

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814161265

**michael davies** · March 28th, 2009, 11:36

Aha, I see, thanks, I assume when you say bringing up, you mean overclock ?, not too happy about that, but it does seem to be getting more popular these days, i pushed my current card a little with ATI tuner and.......bink.......black screen, took 15mins to cool down and reboot !!

.

Kindest

Michael

Originally Posted by Bjoern

The only difference between a 4850 and a 4870 is the video Ram. The smaller card uses "old" GDDR3, the bigger one new GDDR5.

Additionally, the clock speeds for both Ram and GPU are different, with the '50 having higher Ram clocks but lower GPU clocks compared to the '70.
With a good cooler though, you could easily bring the smaller card up to '70 level.

harleyman · March 28th, 2009, 12:24

You will not be able to tell much between the two cards...

The General runs the 3870 and his FSX looks and is solid as heck..Then on his other computer he has the 4870 and can not tell any difference...

FSX wants your CPU anyway...

Your blackscreen was probably because you pushed it to far to fast...They are simple to OC...Yes the DDR5 is better than the DDR3...But I beg you to notice any real difference...LOL

**kilo delta** · March 28th, 2009, 15:41

If you can afford it, go with the 4870. That along with a little overclocking of the cpu will leave you happy out:amen:

**Bjoern** · March 28th, 2009, 17:28

Originally Posted by michael davies

Aha, I see, thanks, I assume when you say bringing up, you mean overclock ?, not too happy about that, but it does seem to be getting more popular these days, i pushed my current card a little with ATI tuner and.......bink.......black screen, took 15mins to cool down and reboot !!

.

An aftermarket GPU cooler could have done the job.

Yep, pretty much overclocking. Its fairly safe these days.

**michael davies** · March 28th, 2009, 23:25

Guys,

Well after talking PM it appears my recent stutters might be down to CPU temp, its running at 80'C just using the web so I reckon when FSx gets going thats whats upsetting it, I'm going to strip the cooler down and look over it tonight.

If theres little to see between the 4870 and 4850 I cant see the reason to expend the extra cash, that could be used towards the new chip and cooling system, the price difference isnt that much and the store I use doesnt stock an Ice Q 4870, shame really. Does the Ice-Q really make any difference ?.

Kindest

Michael

harleyman · March 29th, 2009, 00:07

The 4870 ICEQ is this...

Core Clock 770
Memory Clock 4000 DDR5

The regular 4870 is this....

Core Clock 750
Memory Clock 3600 DDR5

Its an Overclocked edition ......

**txnetcop** · March 29th, 2009, 03:50

Michael in FSX it matters very little which you choose if you are using the HIS ICE-Q4 Turbo series. ATI has an auto tune tab that kicks the core up quite and bit and yet remains cool (39C)when you set the fan to 70% or better. I have the HD4870 and HD4850. In my wife's system with the HD4850 in FSX I am getting 36 stable everywhere except RJTT (26) clocked at 4.0GHz on my gigabyte X48 DQ-6 with an E8600 and HD4870 I get the same. I like the HIS HD4850 in FSX very much...this one is the one I have in her system:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814161244

When I ran autotune it kicked the core up to 680 and ran at speeds close to their latest listed here:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814161246

This is one of the best mid range video cards HIS has ever marketed for gaming.
Ted

**michael davies** · March 29th, 2009, 04:44

Ted,

Thanks, the stockist I use do have a supply of the HIS 4850 Ice-Q, they dont have any HIS 4870s, some Sapphires ( which I've always liked ) and some other brands I've not heard of, and no Ice-Qs.

I think from reading the above that I'm not going to get much better or see much gain than the 4850 with my budget and even that card alone should boost my performance a bit, a new chip ( Mason notes the E8400 as a sound investment ) should see me though.

I dont expect it'll be a top gaming rig, just something thats a cut above what I have now.

The CPU temp is a worry, I dodged home and grabbed the tower to look at it at work, ohh dear, the fan was quite clogged up.....odd as I thought I'd only checked it a short while ago....obviously not as short as I imagined !, so thats been cleaned up nice and bright now, and the heat sink paste didnt look to be applied too well either so I've re-applied anice new thin layer there. That little clean up should help a little until the new bits arrive.

Just have to work out how to sneak the new PC bits under the SWMBO radar now !

.

Kindest

Michael

**Bjoern** · March 29th, 2009, 05:59

Originally Posted by michael davies

Well after talking PM it appears my recent stutters might be down to CPU temp, its running at 80'C just using the web so I reckon when FSx gets going thats whats upsetting it, I'm going to strip the cooler down and look over it tonight.

80°C?

Is it cooled at all? :faint:

Originally Posted by harleyman

The 4870 ICEQ is this...

Core Clock 770
Memory Clock 4000 DDR5

The regular 4870 is this....

Core Clock 750
Memory Clock 3600 DDR5

Its an Overclocked edition ......

Not worth the additional money. Adding 20 Mhz to the GPU clock and 100Mhz to the VRam can easily be done yourself.

However, the cooler looks attractive.

**michael davies** · March 29th, 2009, 11:29

Well, simply cleaning the CPU cooler made a huge difference, its back to how it used to be and some, with simple clouds FPS hovers between 50 and 120, turns are much smoother, it could probably be made better with cfg tweaks.

Using normal scenery and autogen and water off brings it to 40-70 and the odd stutter, but only in 5+G turns low to the ground.

At rest the core temps are now 55 & 57'C, still a little high and when FSx is pushed they top at 72'C, still way too high, so for starters I need more and better cooling, though at those temps its plenty stable enough and even with everything maxed....and stuttery is holds at 72'C.

Time for some more playing I think

, though those new parts are still a pressing requirement.

One other question, I reseated the fan and added some new heat paste, how thick does it need be, I was always told a mearest smear, thats what we use at work for Thyristors and they pass 1200A at full power so that should be ok for a PC chip ?.

Best

Michael

**kilo delta** · March 29th, 2009, 11:47

A grain of rice sized blob of Artic Silver 5 will do the trick.

What are you using to monitor your cpu temps?..55/57 degrees is waaaaaaaaay too hot for idle temps,

harleyman · March 29th, 2009, 12:01

Hey...You are still a tad warm..But certainly within the limits of that Intel CPU...

For applying paste to the CPU its about as much as a large grain of rice is....

I never smear it..I just place the heatsink and lock her down...The heat will do the rest...LOL

Glad to hear that you are better now...

The Texture_Bandwidth_Multiplier in the config will help with those slight stutters usually.... 40 is default and can go as high as 70-80 even test 100-110 if needed

But the test needs to be more than a minute flight...

**michael davies** · March 29th, 2009, 12:02

I'm using core temp, I begining to wonder if that might not be right, i think i have HWMonitor somewhere so might try that.

We dont call it Arctic Silver, what we use at work is of a far higher grade, it has to be to sustain that amount of power and heat dissipation.

What I had before from the suppliers I think was too much, and I may still have a little too much, think I'll try a little cleaner and see what happens, can always add more if it begins to run too hot again.

Best

Michael

Originally Posted by kilo delta

A grain of rice sized blob of Artic Silver 5 will do the trick.

What are you using to monitor your cpu temps?..55/57 degrees is waaaaaaaaay too hot for idle temps,

**kilo delta** · March 29th, 2009, 12:17

I use Real Temp and Lavalys Everest for monitoring my temps (Everest has a plugin that displays temps on my Logitech G-15 keyboard). Too much thermal compound can cause overheating of the cpu.

***Panther_99FS*** · March 29th, 2009, 12:21

FWIW,
I'm building a system with a 4850 with a little bit slower clock speed but has 2GB of memory...

**michael davies** · March 29th, 2009, 12:27

Just tried Everst and couldn't see the CPU temps in there, though it did flag up that it couldn't read some of my details and did I want to submit a report fo their next build.

HWMonitor reports exact same CPU temps as Core temp so they are right, knock another 5'C or 10'C and I'd be a happier camper, think I'll re look at the paste levels shortly.

Kindest

Michael

Addendum, just tried Real Temp and its +5'C on the other two ?, interesting comparisons, still too hot though !.

Originally Posted by kilo delta

I use Real Temp and Lavalys Everest for monitoring my temps (Everest has a plugin that displays temps on my Logitech G-15 keyboard). Too much thermal compound can cause overheating of the cpu.

**michael davies** · March 29th, 2009, 12:37

A 2GB 4850 ?, didnt see anything bigger than 1GB, thats a whole lot of GPU RAM !.

Best

Michael

Originally Posted by Panther_99FS

FWIW,
I'm building a system with a 4850 with a little bit slower clock speed but has 2GB of memory...

**michael davies** · March 29th, 2009, 12:38

Bandwidth is 70 and bufferpool 100MB, will play with those shortly.

Best

Michael

Originally Posted by harleyman

Hey...You are still a tad warm..But certainly within the limits of that Intel CPU...

For applying paste to the CPU its about as much as a large grain of rice is....

I never smear it..I just place the heatsink and lock her down...The heat will do the rest...LOL

Glad to hear that you are better now...

The Texture_Bandwidth_Multiplier in the config will help with those slight stutters usually.... 40 is default and can go as high as 70-80 even test 100-110 if needed

But the test needs to be more than a minute flight...

***Panther_99FS*** · March 29th, 2009, 12:44

Michael,
This is the one--> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102809

**michael davies** · March 29th, 2009, 13:21

Kewl !!

.

Best

Michael

Originally Posted by Panther_99FS

Michael,
This is the one--> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102809

**michael davies** · March 29th, 2009, 13:26

Right, back to CPU temps, quick clean of one surface and rebuild, still no difference, idles at 60'C, now heres a thing, the PC has been running for 60mins at 60'C average, yet the heat sink wasn't that hot, more like 40ish.

Bad heat flow ?, possibly not, the chip wasn't that hot either, certainly not 60'C, thats the temp we use to boil off Legionella in water systems so I know full well what 60'C feels like

.

I do have a system temp of 42'C and the Bios confirms this, which temp is critical, is the system temp the average of the chip and the one to look at, or is the core the critical one, other than sticking it in a freezer I cant see how the core can be lowered, the chip most certainly is not feeling like 60'C to me, I can of course test it with a temp probe I have once its shut down.

Best

Michael

Addendum, ok after more FSx running the core temps are up on before so need more paste or a much better cooling arrangement, CPU does not exceed 80'C and then stutters begin, having said that this is the first time I've been able to fly the F-18 from the VC smoothly, though theres no MFDs displaying which might be why and an odd side effect thats just occured. None the less CPU cooling seems to be mandatory now, at 77'C I'm averaging 60-70FPS with the stunt planes in spot view, medium settings and no AI, water off. A ;ower CPU temp will allow me to push it up a little, or more like just consolidate what I have here for the immediate future until new hardware arrives. This high temp is niggling me now, I watched it whilst flying FSx, it does rise very quickly and droips just as quick, which might explain why the chip felt cool earlier.