KNGZ NAS Alameda

[tgycgijoes]

I was stationed in Corpus in 75-78 time frame and VT-28 was home based there back then. News to me that they were at Alameda.

For the past hour I have been trying to resond to this after spending a half hour with more internet searching for information I based this on. I am mad because Adobe Acrobat imo is junki compared to the old free reader. Of course you know my opinion about Windows 10 in general. Anyway, I am not mad at anyone on here but on Adobe and Microsoft but I am sure they could care less. Anyway, after trying to post a copy of what I found which I found with new pdf's is impossible, here is what I finally found out and you are right and I am wrong about VT-28 being stationed at NAS Alameda. However, they seem to have flown training flights to there and I am sure returned from there back to NAS Corpus Christi. Here is a link to the photos:

https://www.airhistory.net/operator-unit/750/VT-28

From the Declassified January 1973 NAVAL TRAINING COMMAND STATIONS LISTING FOR CORPUS CHRISTI TEXAS:

Furnished limited support to:
NALF Waldron
NALF Cabaniss

Permanent Naval Units (Non Reserve)
VT-27 36 TS2A 1 US2B TRAWING FOUR
VT-28 36 TS2A 1 US2B TRAWING FOUR
VT-29 10 T29B 2 TC117D TRAWING FOUR
VT31 38 TS2A 2 US2B TRAWING FOUR

So that's it! When VT-28 was photographed at NAS Alameda it was a mission not an assignment. The picture above WAS taken at NAS Alameda. It must have been some kind of a formation training exercise. Obviously, 50 years later it would be very surprising if any records exist unless it's in a lost logbook of one of the pilot's. They DO surface once in a while.
When I was collecting uniforms on ebay 20 years ago for my online business, I got a complete set from a WWII pilot and his logbook from the 1930's was in it, so cool. I have it packed away somewhere. I sold off all the uniforms when we moved but I kept that and an the E6B mechanical computer which I actually learned when studying to be a private pilot in the Navy Flying Club until we pulled out for Vietnam. I got more for the MaeWest than all his uniforms. All of them went to one collector like I was. Well, that's the name of that tune.

[menef]

Thank you for this scenery ! Much appreciated
Bruno

[gray eagle]

I use to watch them startup from my vantage point at AIMD Corpus (worked tech library there) and they would assimilate the blue angles movements, from all port engines would start at same time to when they
came back from their training mission (usually a gaggle of five or so planes) bank off one at a time (like the blues) to when they all were spotted aside of each other and then all five a/c would simultaneously shutdown their port and then starboard engines. One of the AE's (Electricians) told me that there were wire splices about every three or four feet in those old birds. I remember detecting the aromatic fragrance
of Avgas emanating from the carburetor shop. Those were the days.


BTW- I had orders to VT-29 but was later modded to AIMD Corpus due to VT-29's scheduled decommissioning. And back then, Padre Island was desolate

For the past hour I have been trying to resond to this after spending a half hour with more internet searching for information I based this on. I am mad because Adobe Acrobat imo is junki compared to the old free reader. Of course you know my opinion about Windows 10 in general. Anyway, I am not mad at anyone on here but on Adobe and Microsoft but I am sure they could care less. Anyway, after trying to post a copy of what I found which I found with new pdf's is impossible, here is what I finally found out and you are right and I am wrong about VT-28 being stationed at NAS Alameda. However, they seem to have flown training flights to there and I am sure returned from there back to NAS Corpus Christi. Here is a link to the photos:

https://www.airhistory.net/operator-unit/750/VT-28

From the Declassified January 1973 NAVAL TRAINING COMMAND STATIONS LISTING FOR CORPUS CHRISTI TEXAS:

Furnished limited support to:
NALF Waldron
NALF Cabaniss

Permanent Naval Units (Non Reserve)
VT-27 36 TS2A 1 US2B TRAWING FOUR
VT-28 36 TS2A 1 US2B TRAWING FOUR
VT-29 10 T29B 2 TC117D TRAWING FOUR
VT31 38 TS2A 2 US2B TRAWING FOUR

So that's it! When VT-28 was photographed at NAS Alameda it was a mission not an assignment. The picture above WAS taken at NAS Alameda. It must have been some kind of a formation training exercise. Obviously, 50 years later it would be very surprising if any records exist unless it's in a lost logbook of one of the pilot's. They DO surface once in a while.
When I was collecting uniforms on ebay 20 years ago for my online business, I got a complete set from a WWII pilot and his logbook from the 1930's was in it, so cool. I have it packed away somewhere. I sold off all the uniforms when we moved but I kept that and an the E6B mechanical computer which I actually learned when studying to be a private pilot in the Navy Flying Club until we pulled out for Vietnam. I got more for the MaeWest than all his uniforms. All of them went to one collector like I was. Well, that's the name of that tune.

[tgycgijoes]

I use to watch them startup from my vantage point at AIMD Corpus (worked tech library there) and they would assimilate the blue angles movements, from all port engines would start at same time to when they
came back from their training mission (usually a gaggle of five or so planes) bank off one at a time (like the blues) to when they all were spotted aside of each other and then all five a/c would simultaneously shutdown their port and then starboard engines. One of the AE's (Electricians) told me that there were wire splices about every three or four feet in those old birds. I remember detecting the aromatic fragrance
of Avgas emanating from the carburetor shop. Those were the days.


BTW- I had orders to VT-29 but was later modded to AIMD Corpus due to VT-29's scheduled decommissioning. And back then, Padre Island was desolate

Notice how when we get something like this going and sharing how the memories come back and at least for me, none of the bad ones though there WERE few. From all the different guys on here too.

[gray eagle]

It is subject matter like this that is evocative of better, simpler times and contemplation.

Notice how when we get something like this going and sharing how the memories come back and at least for me, none of the bad ones though there WERE few. From all the different guys on here too.

[MrZippy]

I had a great time while stationed at NAS Alameda! I had my own room the whole time. The guy that was suppose to be my roommate was on a
Med Cruise. The barracks was about 20 yards from the chow-hall and being a 2nd Class Petty Officer, I was permitted to use the 2nd Class-Chief PO's mess next door.
It was much fancier with a salad bar and regular tables instead of the long tables and benches.

[tgycgijoes]

I had a great time while stationed at NAS Alameda! I had my own room the whole time. The guy that was suppose to be my roommate was on a
Med Cruise. The barracks was about 20 yards from the chow-hall and being a 2nd Class Petty Officer, I was permitted to use the 2nd Class-Chief PO's mess next door.
It was much fancier with a salad bar and regular tables instead of the long tables and benches.

After RD-A School at Great Lakes for 9 months, I got orders to CVA-66 reporting to NOB Norfolk. As soon as I got there I didn't even unpack my seabag or get a "rack" assigned but was packed off to FAAWTC Dam Neck VA for a 2 months until the ship got back from ORI at Gitmo. I went aboard a RDSN and three years later got off an RD2 who was TAD to Com
CarDiv 2. Good duty aboard ship. My best time was a Sea Cadet Officer, first a Personnel Officer at a Naval Reserve Center and then got my command as CO of a Sea Cadet Squadron for 8 years. Full officer privileges including the O-club and the Wardroom aboard ships. Last duty was RIMPAC 93 going aboard USS Standley. I got orders to escort 140 cadets and officers out to 14 different ships of the fleet. 2 weeks turned into 3 1/2 on the Pacific Missile Range Live Fire Ex's because Desert Storm had started. 4 years as the Regional Director for USNSCC Region 9 which was the Midwest and I retired an LCDR. The most fun was when I was the Escort Officer for a group of new sea cadets who were doing their 2 week boot camp at Great Lakes and were assigned to the same barracks that I did MY recruit training in "Up The Down Staircase" as the saying goes.

[tgycgijoes]

I got a nice quick reply from the museum. It seems that the airfield used tetrahedrons, not windsocks from all the information he could gather. As well as a couple of tower lighting boards he got jpgs to me of, he also included a runway/taxiway diagram from 9/28/67 which I am printing below. For those aviators of the time there are numerous "red label" areas indicated. I don't have a clue what those are. Help please. I also noticed from another NAS I did that the taxiways are numbered, not lettered as they were in 1993 Jeppsen airport diagram and are now. They also used the old WWII runways as taxiways. I found one tetrahedron, he said there are two. Can you find them both? Also shows that NAS Alameda is TACAN Channel 30 which you can program into the RFN TACAN Gauge. They have a latest version 5.3 especially compatible with P3D V4 and V5 now.

[gray eagle]

I guess doing tetrahedrons is out of the question. In fact, I don't think there are any airports the P3D uses tetrahedrons - are there any?

I don't think anyone made a tetrahedron model for P3D/FSX use either - would be nice and I guess it would have to be SODE controlled.

I got a nice quick reply from the museum. It seems that the airfield used tetrahedrons, not windsocks from all the information he could gather. As well as a couple of tower lighting boards he got jpgs to me of, he also included a runway/taxiway diagram from 9/28/67 which I am printing below. For those aviators of the time there are numerous "red label" areas indicated. I don't have a clue what those are. Help please. I also noticed from another NAS I did that the taxiways are numbered, not lettered as they were in 1993 Jeppsen airport diagram and are now. They also used the old WWII runways as taxiways. I found one tetrahedron, he said there are two. Can you find them both? Also shows that NAS Alameda is TACAN Channel 30 which you can program into the RFN TACAN Gauge. They have a latest version 5.3 especially compatible with P3D V4 and V5 now.

[tgycgijoes]

I guess doing tetrahedrons is out of the question. In fact, I don't think there are any airports the P3D uses tetrahedrons - are there any?

I don't think anyone made a tetrahedron model for P3D/FSX use either - would be nice and I guess it would have to be SODE controlled.

I AM going to be able to place them because in an addon called "small airport objects" which I have installed in ADEx P3D I have four different ones: unlit, weathered; lit and lit weathered. I will have to download the bgl and then convert it to an mdl so that SODE can place them. Still only see one on the diagram. Is the one military or just a jpg example you found. We do NOT have photos of the real ones that were at Alameda. Alan from the museum said that you used to be able to see one of them on Google Earth but since the building of new stuff on the base they are both gone, one of them now under the convstruction of the new VA Hospital. Phooey!

Just found this photo in color on the web. It's of the tetrahedron in 1943 at NAS Argentia. (Now I gotta go look if I have it on my airfield or add it there too). Interesting that the one you found in yellow with black markings and the one below the opposite color combo.



In

[gray eagle]

belay my last, P3D V5.4 Does use tetrahedrons + a windsock Hummmm......

This is at KNRG Walnut Ridge Arkansas
As Gomer would say,,,,Surprise,,,,Surprise,,,,,Surprise.

I AM going to be able to place them because in an addon called "small airport objects" which I have installed in ADEx P3D I have four different ones: unlit, weathered; lit and lit weathered. I will have to download the bgl and then convert it to an mdl so that SODE can place them. Still only see one on the diagram. Is the one military or just a jpg example you found. We do NOT have photos of the real ones that were at Alameda. Alan from the museum said that you used to be able to see one of them on Google Earth but since the building of new stuff on the base they are both gone, one of them now under the convstruction of the new VA Hospital. Phooey!

[gray eagle]

Maybe the two different colors differentiate between Military and Civilian airfields - Like the beacons white white green/white green.

I AM going to be able to place them because in an addon called "small airport objects" which I have installed in ADEx P3D I have four different ones: unlit, weathered; lit and lit weathered. I will have to download the bgl and then convert it to an mdl so that SODE can place them. Still only see one on the diagram. Is the one military or just a jpg example you found. We do NOT have photos of the real ones that were at Alameda. Alan from the museum said that you used to be able to see one of them on Google Earth but since the building of new stuff on the base they are both gone, one of them now under the convstruction of the new VA Hospital. Phooey!

Just found this photo in color on the web. It's of the tetrahedron in 1943 at NAS Argentia. (Now I gotta go look if I have it on my airfield or add it there too). Interesting that the one you found in yellow with black markings and the one below the opposite color combo.



In

[gray eagle]

I tried to set the wind speed and direction and only the windsock responds, the tetrahedron doesn't move (respond)
I guess it wasn't programmed to move.

belay my last, P3D V5.4 Does use tetrahedrons + a windsock Hummmm......

This is at KNRG Walnut Ridge Arkansas
As Gomer would say,,,,Surprise,,,,Surprise,,,,,Surprise.

[tgycgijoes]

I tried to set the wind speed and direction and only the windsock responds, the tetrahedron doesn't move (respond)
I guess it wasn't programmed to move.

I am going to see if the small airport objects tetrahedrons respond and use the lit one. I can't change whatever color they are because it has to be done in GMAX or Blender. GMAX loses animation under my lack of knowledge and I have never mastered Blender so they just be what they be. Broke a tooth last night and am off to the dentist, thankful they took me right in and get the rest of it extracted so fun. Probably won't be back until at least tomorrow with anything.

[gray eagle]

Same issue here at KCVB Castroville Tx, Notice the direction wind sock is flying and tetrahedron has not moved.

belay my last, P3D V5.4 Does use tetrahedrons + a windsock Hummmm......

This is at KNRG Walnut Ridge Arkansas
As Gomer would say,,,,Surprise,,,,Surprise,,,,,Surprise.

[Mike71]

I am going to see if the small airport objects tetrahedrons respond and use the lit one. I can't change whatever color they are because it has to be done in GMAX or Blender. GMAX loses animation under my lack of knowledge and I have never mastered Blender so they just be what they be. Broke a tooth last night and am off to the dentist, thankful they took me right in and get the rest of it extracted so fun. Probably won't be back until at least tomorrow with anything.

A tetrahedron does not rotate in the wind - it actually is set in place, can rotate but is then locked;

See https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publ...20of%20landing.

[gray eagle]

Well I sure got the wrong impression from reading this... Maybe if we add the word wind to tetrahedron....

https://www.halibrite.com/wind-direction-indicator/how-to-read-tetrahedron-wind-indicator/

A tetrahedron does not rotate in the wind - it actually is set in place, can rotate but is then locked;

See https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publ...20of%20landing.

[tgycgijoes]

Re: Red Label Area

A couple of comments on your fine effort which will help:

1. Red Label areas are for handling hazadrous exposives and pyro items. As an example, here is an extract From an instruction on MCAS New River:

2. Red Label Cargo. Red label cargo are explosives or
pyrotechnic type munitions delivered or shipped by aircraft.
a. Loading and unloading of red label cargo shall take
place in the CALA on the spots designated by the ESO or the
AOPSO.
ASO 3710.7Y


3-29 Enclosure (1)
b. ARFF shall post a crash vehicle in the CALA during red
label cargo operations.
c. Red label cargo has priority at the CALA

Also, I posted some info on tetrahedrons as a reply to one of your concerns - the do NOT move with the wind - they indicate runway landing direction in use. Not particularly useful except at uncontrolled airports or if NORDO.

Hope this helps

[tgycgijoes]

Well I sure got the wrong impression from reading this... Maybe if we add the word wind to tetrahedron....

https://www.halibrite.com/wind-direction-indicator/how-to-read-tetrahedron-wind-indicator/

According to Halbrite as you can see from Gray Eagle's post, tetrahedrons can rotate with the wind but are not nearly as sensitive as a windsock or windcone. Therefore pilots are cautioned not to rely on them in slight winds or obviously no wind. I wonder if both are true. Needs more investigation. Neverless, there are two tetrahedrons and one wind sock at least at NAS Alameda as the post above describes. Also Compass Circles.

[Mike71]

According to Halbrite as you can see from Gray Eagle's post, tetrahedrons can rotate with the wind but are not nearly as sensitive as a windsock or windcone. Therefore pilots are cautioned not to rely on them in slight winds or obviously no wind. I wonder if both are true. Needs more investigation. Neverless, there are two tetrahedrons and one wind sock at least at NAS Alameda as the post above describes. Also Compass Circles.

Again, I argue the point. In my experience, tetrahedrons had a cement block at varoius points on the ground so that it could be locked / aligned in the desired direction with a metal bar from the point of the tetrahedon down to the block / eyepad. - I suppose it could be set in some way to indicate wind but I always noticed them anchored down with a metal rod.

See this FAA info: https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publ...ml/chap4_secti

[tgycgijoes]

W

Again, I argue the point. In my experience, tetrahedrons had a cement block at varoius points on the ground so that it could be locked / aligned in the desired direction with a metal bar from the point of the tetrahedon down to the block / eyepad. - I suppose it could be set in some way to indicate wind but I always noticed them anchored down with a metal rod.

See this FAA info: https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publ...ml/chap4_secti

I wonder because of the contradictions, that the tetrahedrons like from 1943 and into the 1970's WERE stationary but now they swing into the wind as Hali-brite says. Interesting. Need some more information.

After opening up the small airport objects bgl in Model Converter X, I found that those tetrahedrons do not look anything like either of the photos above so, I worked all day on the USN tetrahedron using the one in the photo from NAS Argentia that I found as a model. It is on a cement pedestal but it does not appear that there is any steel rod(s) to secure it from rotating. I certainly do not believe that you are wrong. If I DON'T have to program it to rotate in the wind it will be easier to finish and place. It was a nightmare to place the steel poles onto the tetrahedron with all the angles but after four hours I am at the point to attach the lights. I feel that those on the spar and up toward the back are red and that those on the bottom sides and upper back are white so that is how I am going to place them as attached objects in Model Converter X and then create a bgl and mdl. I hate conflicting information

[gray eagle]

Link states Page not found.

Here is another link (that works) with additional contradicting info

https://www.dauntless-soft.com/PRODU...oks/AK/6-5.htm

But I digress.

Again, I argue the point. In my experience, tetrahedrons had a cement block at varoius points on the ground so that it could be locked / aligned in the desired direction with a metal bar from the point of the tetrahedon down to the block / eyepad. - I suppose it could be set in some way to indicate wind but I always noticed them anchored down with a metal rod.

See this FAA info: https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publ...ml/chap4_secti

[tgycgijoes]

From another source: Wind tees and tetrahedrons can swing freely, and will align themselves with the wind direction. The wind tee and tetrahedron can also be manually set to align with the runway in use, therefore a pilot should also look at the wind sock if available.

No matter how the tetrahedron I place is being used manually OR with the wind, since in the simulators there is no live person to position the tetrahedron and set it manually, in the sim it will have to be wind sensitive so that it does not give misleading information. It IS interesting that NAS Alameda has a control tower and tetrahedrons. I am going to continue today with its construction and will hopefully have it all set for SODE placement by this evening. There will also be a windsock at the end of Rwy 31 next to the "wheels down" spot as Alan said.

[Mike71]

From another source: --It IS interesting that NAS Alameda has a control tower and tetrahedrons. --

The reason is what runway to use when NORDO. Flashing green ALDIS lamp signals only tell you you have been recognized to enter the pattern, later signals cleared to land - but WHERE?? A properly aligned tetrahedron gives this info when available.

[Mike71]

--- here is what I finally found out and you are right and I am wrong about VT-28 being stationed at NAS Alameda. However, they seem to have flown training flights to there and I am sure returned from there back to NAS Corpus Christi. Here is a link to the photos:
---

May have been a TRACOM CQ det. IF LEX was in work pierside and no other east coast carriers were readily available they could have been chopped to the west coast. Tough trip in TS2As, but cheaper and quicker than delaying the training syllabus of several students while waiting for an east coast boat.