Have I reached the edge?

[Browncoat]

So I installed Mask Rider's 2022 Philippines airfields, and filled in the gaps of the missing objects. Now when ever I start from any airfield, and aircraft are "breaking". The aircraft 9any aircraft) appear to be disassembled and junked together when using the VC. Please refer to the attached screenshot. Thank you for the help!


Edit: OK. I "think" I fixed it. I replaced the objects found in the 2022 version of MR_library_Objects, with the older versions found in lw_library_objects, and that seems to have resolved the issue that I was encountering before.

[UncleTgt]

Looks strange, & the scenery in the background looks OK.

Are you running some "newer" graphics hardware, I seem to recall CFS2 using some old ddraw 6 codes

Some of the most recent cards/ Operating System combos just don't have full "backwards compatibility" anymore

If you deactivate the "new" scenery, do you get your stock aircraft to display correctly once more?

[Browncoat]

Hi Uncle,

So here are my system specs:

CPU: AMD 5800X3D
RAM: GSkill DDR4 32GB 3200mhz CL14
GPU: nVidia RTX 3070TI running 537.42 drivers
MoBo: MSI Tomahawk B550 WiFi
OS: Win10 64bit build 19045

So the problem I encountered is repeatable and I think I have narrowed it down to one bgl file. I originally had Leroy10's lw_library_objects from 2004 installed. This version was lacking buildings that the most recent airfield packs from MaskRider required. KDriver pointed me to a 2022 version called MR_Library_Objects that contained the missing INF files. Both files contain a bgl file titled LW_Buildings.bgl. When I have the LW_Buildings.bgl file from the 2022 library object file installed, and I am starting at SI Ondonga I see this:


If I revert to the 2004 LW_Buildings.bgl, I see this at SI Ondonga:


The 2022 version shows all of the buildings perfectly, but breaks every aircraft if I am on the ground or in the vicinity of ground objects. The 2004 version causes some buildings (I'm guessing the ones that are in the 2022) to become ghost like outlines and not completely loaded, but this doesn't break the game like the 2022 version does. The only difference in either screenshot is which LW_Buildings.bgl I am using, because in both I am flying out of MR Solomon's Ondonga, and using Dbolt's F4u_1A, "Big Hog".

Now I have a "middle" version, lw_library_objects_wfixed_buildingsbgl. The LW_Buildings.bgl in this one is dated from 2006. When I load this version, it doesn't "ghost" the buildings, or cause CFS2 replace the missing textures with grass (which really adds to the 80+ year old feel to them!), which must be why this was a "fix" when it was released.

[UncleTgt]

Good detective work!

The GFX card is new, but I think Wolfi uses the same or similar, & he didn't report any issues.

Ondonga was one of my (many)Solomons scenery bases redone after Capt Kurt revamped 87 Days early in 2022. I have LW_buildings.bgl in all my installs, but it's dated 2006, & I got it from Maskriders site.

Like you, I downloaded the 2022 Philippines scenery revamp, but haven't found time to install it yet.

If the 2022 bgl is the problem, it must be some of the "new" objects added for the Philippines package? I guess the quick I guess the quick workaround is to do without the missing building in the PI, or someone recompile the PHI gsl file with replacement objects?

[Browncoat]

Hello UncleTgt,

So, looking at the file size all three versions of the bgl, the 2003/2004 version clocks in at 63937 bytes, the 2006 version is 64022 bytes, and the 2022 version is 64214 bytes. The 2006 version was released to fix issues with the building (for example the Ghosting/and "grass" textures that I saw). I do not know what the 2022 contains for certain to differentiate it. I installed it to resolve missing objects in Mask Rider's 2022 Philippines airfields. From what I can tell, reverting to the 2006 version hasn't caused these previously missing objects to go "missing" again. My hunch for that is that I have the DP files for these missing objects installed from the 2022 file, and therefore CFS2 "sees" them. Honestly I think I'd be hard pressed to identify missing objects without CFS2 flashing a warning modal at me to let me know.

For the past two months I have been working on a specific PTO/CBI theater install. Back when I intensely kept up with CFS2 (circa 2008-2009?), I would create single monolithic installs and have it support everything (PTO, ETO, CBI, MTO and OST). CFS2 can (somewhat) support this, if the additions are done slowly, but inevitably this approach leaves CFS2 in a very unstable state, where a single scenery file out of whack can cause everything to lock up. Not to mention it would take forever to load, and trying to juggle the scenery priority list just would become a chore.

So far I have installed AF scenery for Hawaii and Port Morseby, and all of MR's scenery. What I found is that I have data-pack-ratted away so many of the MR airfield updates that I had to take time to go through all of the old ones to see what I should keep and what to possibly remove from my library. Achim's ETO scenery has been much of the same as well. Next I'll be processing through all of your scenery. After that, I'll move on to a dedicated ETO/MTO install, and then a Ost-front install.

[kdriver]

Sorry Browncoat, Aussie and I discovered the same problem but I forgot to upload the corrected BGL. Try this one - I hope it's the right one.

[highpockets]

kdriver, I assume you drop this in any older LW_bld blg.Scenerydb/inf/scenery

[Browncoat]

Hi Highpockets. I think this file will work best in the 2022 version of "MR_Library_Objects" that particular file seems to have objects that earlier versions of "LW_library_Objects" didn't have, such as the lw_barracks_d9.

Thanks for the file Kevin. That appears to work, or4 at least I'm not seeing any of that trippy behavior like before. It was interesting flying out of PNG_Clark Field and seeing my Corsair's rudder right in front of the aircraft's nose as I took off down the runway.

By the way UncleTgt, I have been working my way through your Solomons airfields. For the expansion pt, where in the GSL file for the 44erly add-on airfields?

[Hiede]

Browncoat,

It's in the pack for the Solomons as it's on my sons computer,Maybe you just got a faulty download.

Hiede

[Browncoat]

Thanks Hiede. I was thinking that as well, so I downloaded it again for the SOH this evening, but that file is also missing that particular GSL file.

Now I am wondering, what is the maximum number of ObjectDB/INF files that CFS2 can support without freaking out?

[Hiede]

Thanks Hiede. I was thinking that as well, so I downloaded it again for the SOH this evening, but that file is also missing that particular GSL file.

Now I am wondering, what is the maximum number of ObjectDB/INF files that CFS2 can support without freaking out?

This is the download you need.
Solomon Islands & Bougainville

It's from September 2022 and has all the GSL files for the Solomons.

Hiede

[Browncoat]

Thanks Hiede. I appreciate the help. That file does indeed have the GSL for 44erly, but the file I was referring to is Solomons Scenery Expansion - Part 1 from July 5th 2023. There are bgls to add to an install running 44erly, but there isn't a specific GSL file to support those add-on bgls, unless the GSL from 43late can be used.

This is the download you need.
Solomon Islands & Bougainville

It's from September 2022 and has all the GSL files for the Solomons.

Hiede

[Hiede]

Thanks Hiede. I appreciate the help. That file does indeed have the GSL for 44erly, but the file I was referring to is Solomons Scenery Expansion - Part 1 from July 5th 2023. There are bgls to add to an install running 44erly, but there isn't a specific GSL file to support those add-on bgls, unless the GSL from 43late can be used.

If I understand it right the Solomons expansion to the original scenery,so you need the original as well.The GSL early44 file will work with it.

Hiede

[UncleTgt]

Browncoat,

You are correct, the 44erly scenery was unfinished. At the time the release was a bit hurried (cough, cough), as I knew Shadow Wolf might use them in his Desperate Battles revamp, & Hiede's son expressed an interest in a proper field at Espiritu Santo for the VMF124 remake...

As the air facilities stayed pretty much unchanged from late '43 onwards, early'44 should just be a repeat of the 43late airbases.

BUT the upload 44erly airbases folder is incomplete.

I've attached a zipfile with ALL the 43late airbase files duplicated, & a gsl folder with a note stating to keep the 43late gsl active. The original upload has also been updated.

Good catch!

I guess the other 105 downloaders must still just have it "stored for later use"

[Browncoat]

Thank you Uncle! Now I have ran in to another conundrum that I haven;t been able to pin point. Now I don't know if the issue with with the 44 early version of Huon Gulf, or the fact that my PTO install has really become, well, bloated, but last night when I was trying to get the 44 early version to work, it would stop CFS2 right in it's tracks. I'd see the free flight loading bar get to roughly half way, and then CFS2 would just give up and ghost and crash every time, and it would do this every time with any airfield I had installed. I spent about 3 hours ripping out GSL files (I'm so glad I back those up) replacing them, and trying to figure things out. I think the issue is with a bgl scenery file in PNG_Airbases_HuonGulf44E_UT, because if I disabled it, everything would work again. So then I removed PNG_Airbases_HuonGulf44E_UT, removed the associated GSL, and then installed PNG_Airbases_HuonGulf43L_UT with the associated GSL, and this time CFS2 started right up. No again, it is possible that this issue is that my PTO install of CFS2 is just really bloated and hacked up.


On a few other notes, when I was working through your Solomons install (not Solomon Sea)I had to cross reference your files with MaskRider's Solomons. Unlike your other installs, this particular one didn't discuss any known conflicts and provide direction as to what needed to be archived. I really appreciated when you called those out. Now MR's airfields also have instances where they conflict with stock airfields, particularly with Gavin Cole's modified stock fields, and I also had to do some more file sleuthing. I found and old post from 2016 discussing MR's Marianas and some conflicts there. With 20+ years of modification development things can get...messy.

By the way, do you know of a ObjectsDB and/or INF bgl number limit? I can get CFS2 to start, but for the life of me I cannot get the in game map to work now. I think there is a limit, because if I replace the ObjectsDB and INF folders with copies from my SuperStock install CFS2 fires up just fine, and the in game map works. I also learned that bgls in ObjectsDB and INF have to match, or CFS2 just crashes without so much of a reason why. I really wish there was a log file or something to explain in human terms why it didn't load... oh well.

[UncleTgt]

CFS2 has its limits. They usually cause Free Flight & Quick Combat to stop working, & often create problems with Mission Builder.

Using more than 100 aircraft (or ship) models

Having more than 200 AFD bgls active - this one usually shows itself when you try to fly from that you scenery you've installed, & none of the new runways show up in your Free Flight/QC list.

Having too many objects_dps active. This limit seems to be hardware dependent, but values of 1400 to 1700 objects seems to be most peoples limit.

This is largely why Mission & Campaign writers started to make dedicated installs - it keeps the number of objects under control.

My current Test/Development install has 1526 object dps. It's where I do my repaints & scenery work.

[UncleTgt]

Some comments about scenery packages.

My stuff has all been developed with the aim of highlighting how good Rhumbaflappys mesh is.

In general Maskriders packages (with a few exceptions) pre-date Rhumbas mesh.

My Solomons package was developed when I was part of the testing team for Captain Kurt's revamp of "87 Days".

Because of these points, I just never thought it necessary to highlight that it would cover many of Maskrider's Solomons package.

I further developed the idea of activating/deactivating airbase sceneries as a way of modelling just how extensively some locations were developed through the War. It remains a WIP, but by & large I'm pleased with the results so far.

Stock Fields/Gavins overhauled fields

I use Gavins fields. Sometimes I forget to reference when a stock field has been replaced. Its fair to say that in a Rumba mesh world, most stock fields are mislocated or just plain fictional... I try to correct this in each scenery package I've produced.

One niggle with Gavins fields is you have to remember the A16N flattens are separate bgls. Scenery exclude bgls don't exclude the effect of these flattens, so you need to go into the SCENEDB/RUNWAYS/SCENERY folder & archive the relevant A16N flattens bgl manually.

Huon Gulf44E

I tested this so it's unlikely to be the gsl file that's the cause of your issue. Nobody else has reported issues so far, & the 44E package just adds Dreger Field & further enhances the field layouts at Nadzab. My guess is its number of object dp related, or total number of objects at the location you're trying to fly from, something like that. Nadzab & Dreger are both object-intensive gobs.

One item that "might" cause display issues is I tried using 1024 x 1024 bitmaps for some of the fields, to try to improve definition. It might be that CFS2 is "choking" trying to display these backgrounds - it depends on your hardware.

[Browncoat]

Thanks Uncle. I have appr3eciated your help. Your work is wonderful. It really highlights Rhumba's mesh so well and adds so much life to an other wise empty world (as far as free flight in concerned). When I took off out of Port Moresby I couldn't get over just how transformed the area is. As far as my issues, i doubt that it is hardware performance related, but I certainly believe its the number of objects that CFS2 has to deal with. Again, its a 23 year old program that certainly has limits. I am wondering how to reduced the number of objects in my install. I have completed my goal of installing all of the PTO airfields that I have/am aware of. As a result, I am sitting at 1983 items in my Objects DP folder (that includes auto-generated CDP files). If I were to remove the system generated CDPs, that would leave me with 1683 DPs.

I knew about that "gotcha" with Gavin's modified fields. There is always something.

And I haven't install all of the weapon objects for all of the aircraft I have. I have most of them installed, but not all.

I wonder how I can go about curating DP files to remove ones that are just not used.

My next plan is to take a hard look at the airfield file and edit it down to 200-250 fields from the ones I have left. Where last I left it I was at 400 entries. Most of those non-stock entries were Xavier's work. Now for my PTO install most of the stock fields are gone. AF's PNG and MR's PNG and Solomons fields have also been replaced by much of your work.

[Hiede]

One thing people do is try to put everything into 1 install of CFS2.What happens after?Non working CFS2.

With all the new scenery,infrastructures,and weapons it is best to to have several installs,This way you can minimize what you need.We have all the original Talon installs starting back to 2003 up until 2014 and yes they all work.With the installs by my son there are 16 installs.Some are on an external drive.There are 4 different installs for the Solomons alone.

As for the ship limit,you can have over 200 ships installed. I've brought up this point before but you keep saying the limit is 100.Most of the installs have 200 to 215 ships.

Hiede

[Browncoat]

Hello Hiede,

What is the best way to have multiple installs of CFS2? It looks like approach of trying to divide it in to theaters isn't going to quite work.

One thing people do is try to put everything into 1 install of CFS2.What happens after?Non working CFS2.

With all the new scenery,infrastructures,and weapons it is best to to have several installs,This way you can minimize what you need.We have all the original Talon installs starting back to 2003 up until 2014 and yes they all work.With the installs by my son there are 16 installs.Some are on an external drive.There are 4 different installs for the Solomons alone.

As for the ship limit,you can have over 200 ships installed. I've brought up this point before but you keep saying the limit is 100.Most of the installs have 200 to 215 ships.

Hiede

[Hiede]

Hello Hiede,

What is the best way to have multiple installs of CFS2? It looks like approach of trying to divide it in to theaters isn't going to quite work.

Browncoat,

First thing you have to do is decide on where you want to fly and the missions you want to fly.After that get the scenery you'll need.

If you like Defense of Australia it would be New Guinea scenery,Other campaigns have been made for the area like Milne Bay and Battle of the Bismark Sea.You could name it Combat Flight Simulator 2 NG.

In the Solomons some of the older campaigns have been updated to the new UT scenery for the Cactus Air Force by Captain Kurt.My son named it Combat Flight Simulator 2 Cactus.

Hope that helps.

Hiede

[skylane]

Browncoat,

To make a new install, just copy/paste a stock install wherever you keep your games and rename it as you like. You can send the exe file to the desktop and rename it like the install. Then add scenery, planes, ships as needed for what you want to do.

I have all the UT Solomons, New Guinea and Pacific Islands scenery in one install, additionally the AF airfields not yet covered by UT and Maskrider's DEI airfields. Then I made two copies of this, so I can have several campaigns installed without having too many planes and ships.

I haven't tried the 1944 versions of the sceneries yet, only up to 1943, so right now I can't help with the problem you seem to have with these.

These installs have a little over 1500 objects (only objects, no CDPs) and run smoothly on my machine. I do delete the CDPs from time to time, don't know if this is any good, but it doesn't hurt.

In my Med install I started to have problems when the object count got to about 1650. I removed all the CFS1 objects and most of the stock weapons to get the number down.

[UncleTgt]

Browncoat,

I tried moving between date ranges in Huon Gulf & I agree with your findings, the HuonGulf44E.gsl seems "buggy".

Several times I got a CTD after Free Flight loaded at Nadzab 4 or Dreger Field. If I move to different fields in the area, the flight loads correctly.

Give me a couple of days, I think I might need to recompile the gsl package, & maybe split it into 2 parts, as it takes a while for GSLMan to load it up.

[kdriver]

kdriver, I assume you drop this in any older LW_bld blg.Scenerydb/inf/scenery

Hi Highpockets, yes drop it in that folder overwriting the existing BGL. There are a few more objects which were needed when MR's Philippines airfields were converted from API to GSL.

Thanks Browncoat, I'll amend the download in the Library Objects section. Yes, it was strange that a faulty scenery object BGL caused the player's aircraft to break up.

[Browncoat]

Hi UncleTgt and Kevin,

That reads awesome! I’m glad to help!

I’ve played CFS2 for as long as it has been out, but this is the first time I’ve ever worked with multiple installs. I wasn’t aware that I could copy a single stock install multiple times. I was under the impression that I had to rename each install and then run the original installer from the disks. Perhaps this means that I can copy a stock install to a thumb drive and finally say good bye to the original disks…

By the way, do you what happens if I reinstall over a modified install? I accidentally did that this morning to my current PTO install when I was adding a fresh base for an ETO setup. My PC processed the reinstall command quickly (far quicker than an install) and so far I did a quick check after my heart sank to my stomach, but cannot see that anything was actually affected. As for as I could tell, the stock airfields were not changed, and none of the stock aircraft were affected either.