Landing Dino's Skyhawk T-4 on a Carrier
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 33

Thread: Landing Dino's Skyhawk T-4 on a Carrier

  1. #1
    SOH-CM-2023 Cees Donker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Zoetermeer, Netherlands
    Age
    67
    Posts
    4,571

    Landing Dino's Skyhawk T-4 on a Carrier

    Can anyone here give me a clue? This one always tips over on landing, no matter how close to stall speed I land. I trap aircraft like the RFN Crusader and the Etendart without any problem, this A-4 is frustrating.

    Cees

  2. #2
    SOH-CM-2023 Duckie's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Fayetteville, Georgia, USA
    Age
    74
    Posts
    2,949
    Quote Originally Posted by Cees Donker View Post
    Can anyone here give me a clue? This one always tips over on landing, no matter how close to stall speed I land. I trap aircraft like the RFN Crusader and the Etendart without any problem, this A-4 is frustrating.

    Cees
    Cees, it may have to do with the tail hook length or location. Beyond that I'm no help. Maybe someone else has some good numbers for it. Also check the cable force adjustment. The ones of mine I just checked are in the 0.6 to 1.4 range.

    Steve
    Duckie

    "I hate to see you go, but I love to watch you leave!"

    Intel i9-9900K; Noctua NH-D15 Chromax Cooler; Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Pro WiFi;
    ASUS Dual RTX 2070 Super OC EVO; Corsair Vengeance LPX 32 GB 3200;
    WD Black 500GB PCIe M.2 SSD; 3 Samsung 860 EVO SSD; WD Black 2TB HDD;
    Corsair RM 850x Gold Full Modular PSU; Phanteks P600S Mid Tower; Win10 Pro
    My SOH Downloads: http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforum...d=79620&sort=d

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Cees Donker View Post
    Can anyone here give me a clue? This one always tips over on landing, no matter how close to stall speed I land. I trap aircraft like the RFN Crusader and the Etendart without any problem, this A-4 is frustrating.

    Cees
    Do you mean up on a wingtip??

    Real A-4s / TA-4s were always susceptible to this with any right or left drift or off center at touchdown; often caused a strut to over-compress and jam. Flight Deck crew would run up, grab the upper wing tip to pull it down and unjam the over compressed strut. Normally worked!

  4. #4
    SOH-CM-2023 Cees Donker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Zoetermeer, Netherlands
    Age
    67
    Posts
    4,571
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike71 View Post
    Do you mean up on a wingtip??

    Real A-4s / TA-4s were always susceptible to this with any right or left drift or off center at touchdown; often caused a strut to over-compress and jam. Flight Deck crew would run up, grab the upper wing tip to pull it down and unjam the over compressed strut. Normally worked!
    That's it exactly! I received some other numbers for the tailhook that I'm gonna try.

    Cees

  5. #5
    Cees, I don't FSX but this problem sounds very familiar in the older sims.

    The Skyhawk (if accurately modeled) has an unstable landing gear footprint.
    Imagine that you're looking down at the plane and you can see the three tires.
    It looks like a triangle.

    In this case, the triangle will look like its tall at the top and the base will be narrow.
    The Skyhawk also has a relatively high COG which doesn't help.
    Imagine sitting on a three legged stool with the same triangle at its base.

    To fix it, or at least make it land-able, you'll need to edit the [contact points] section of the aircraft.cfg file.

    Check first that the two main gear legs have the same length (Z axis). In some cases they won't.
    Next, try making that base of the triangle wider (Y axis). You don't need to add a lot, try adding a half of a foot to each main gear. One will be positive, the other will be negative.
    You can test these changes at a normal airport. Just taxi around like you've had a few too many to drink.
    Be aggressive, make sharp turns, jam on the brakes in the middle of a turn, do all the stuff you normally wouldn't do.

    You could also make the triangle a little more stable by adding a second nose wheel. Offset the original nose wheel to the right by about a half of a foot. Add the new wheel and offset it the same amount in a negative direction so the new nose wheels act like bogies.

    Another thing to check is the damping and damping ratio for the gear. If they are set too high the shock absorbers will act like catapults.

    If you don't have a lot of experience with these edits, copy the [contact points] section and paste it in this thread and I'll show you what I mean.

  6. #6
    SOH-CM-2023 Cees Donker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Zoetermeer, Netherlands
    Age
    67
    Posts
    4,571
    Good advice Sbob!

    I appreciate it very much!

    Still testing and improving my skills!

    Cees

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Cees Donker View Post
    Good advice Sbob!

    I appreciate it very much!

    Still testing and improving my skills!

    Cees
    Virtavia's Skyhawk was also susceptible to tipping over. (I remember the Virtavia A3D and F-11 Tiger also gave me issues.) Maybe it's just the nature of the beast? SWS's Midway Battlegroup addon did something with their carriers that virtually eliminated tipsy aircraft when trapping, even the Skyhawk. (Unfortunately it interfered with planes like my Wilco and SSW Harriers hovering ability. Apparently FSUIPC likes one or the other but not both, so I uninstalled MBG.)

  8. #8
    SOH-CM-2023 Cees Donker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Zoetermeer, Netherlands
    Age
    67
    Posts
    4,571
    I have the Virtavia Skyhawk and I can put that one on a carrier almost effortles. The Indiafoxctechno version is compared with the Virtavia version a real challenge. Still is after a lot of tries, but gives great satisfaction when you succeed.
    FSX rules if you're into naval flying and trapping. I still enjoy this sim a lot!

    Cees

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Cees Donker View Post
    I have the Virtavia Skyhawk and I can put that one on a carrier almost effortles. The Indiafoxctechno version is compared with the Virtavia version a real challenge. Still is after a lot of tries, but gives great satisfaction when you succeed.
    FSX rules if you're into naval flying and trapping. I still enjoy this sim a lot!

    Cees
    My friend has MSFS and although the graphics are outstanding the planes just seem to fly like they came out of Ace Combat. I still love FSX! (I forgot where it came from but I fly off of the Bon Homme Richard quite a bit!) I'll have to break out the Virtavia Skyhawk and try it again. Maybe I'm suffering from the Mandela Effect.

  10. #10
    Hey Cees anyway you could please post those tailhook numbers? Iíve always had a problem trying to land that same plane.Thanks

  11. #11
    SOH-CM-2023 Cees Donker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Zoetermeer, Netherlands
    Age
    67
    Posts
    4,571
    tailhook_length= 4.285
    cable_force_adjust= 4.0
    tailhook_position = -28.0, 0.0, -2.25

    This may seem an improvement, but I managed to trap it only once on the Nimitz. It has the tendency to miss the wire as if the hook isn't long enough.


    Cees

  12. #12
    Ok thanks for the advice,and the tailhook numbers maybe we can find better ones in the future?

  13. #13
    Cees, this comment came up today in my "memories" post on Facebook. From June 2, 2013... I believe I was flying the Razbam A-4E:

    "I just got off Microsoft Flight Simulator X after wasting over an hour trying to land aboard USS Oriskany in a A-4E Skyhawk. Twitchy little jet, I couldn't catch a wire to save my a**. I could barely get the damn plane down to the deck. I'm not posting any screen shots, you wouldn't want to see my performance. Guess I gotta do less Facebook and more flight sim!"


    My carrier landing skills are still not world-class (real-life LSO's would laugh at me) but I can get aboard with other jets so maybe it's time to give the A-4 another try with Dino's plane.

  14. #14
    SOH-CM-2023 Cees Donker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Zoetermeer, Netherlands
    Age
    67
    Posts
    4,571
    Quote Originally Posted by TARPSBird View Post
    Cees, this comment came up today in my "memories" post on Facebook. From June 2, 2013... I believe I was flying the Razbam A-4E:

    "I just got off Microsoft Flight Simulator X after wasting over an hour trying to land aboard USS Oriskany in a A-4E Skyhawk. Twitchy little jet, I couldn't catch a wire to save my a**. I could barely get the damn plane down to the deck. I'm not posting any screen shots, you wouldn't want to see my performance. Guess I gotta do less Facebook and more flight sim!"


    My carrier landing skills are still not world-class (real-life LSO's would laugh at me) but I can get aboard with other jets so maybe it's time to give the A-4 another try with Dino's plane.
    Please give it a go Jerry, and let us know how it goes! Dino's Skyhawk are gorgeous but difficult to trap.



    Cees

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Cees Donker View Post
    Please give it a go Jerry, and let us know how it goes! Dino's Skyhawk are gorgeous but difficult to trap.
    Cees
    I downloaded Dino's A-4 and TA-4 packages from SimMarket (the price was right - free) so I will give the Scooters a try tomorrow when I'm not so tired. If I'm going to scare myself at "the back end of the boat" I want to be at least wide awake and perky.

    Gonna be a big change from Paul Clawson's TBD-1 doing 85 knots at the ramp.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by TARPSBird View Post
    I downloaded Dino's A-4 and TA-4 packages from SimMarket (the price was right - free) so I will give the Scooters a try tomorrow when I'm not so tired. If I'm going to scare myself at "the back end of the boat" I want to be at least wide awake and perky.

    Gonna be a big change from Paul Clawson's TBD-1 doing 85 knots at the ramp.
    Maybe a dumb question, but are you making approaches with your speed brakes OUT? - helps with power (glideslope) control --

  17. #17
    SOH-CM-2023 Cees Donker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Zoetermeer, Netherlands
    Age
    67
    Posts
    4,571
    I approach with full flaps, not with the speedbrakes, maybe inintially to reduce speed, but not on final.



    Cees

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Cees Donker View Post
    I approach with full flaps, not with the speedbrakes, maybe inintially to reduce speed, but not on final.



    Cees
    Speedbrakes out for carrier landing according to the NATOPS.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Pages from ta4fj.pdf  
    FAA A&P, FE (TURBOJET),AMEL COMM INST DC-8 & B767/757 TYPE RATEINGS
    FCC GROL

  19. #19
    SOH-CM-2023 Cees Donker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Zoetermeer, Netherlands
    Age
    67
    Posts
    4,571
    Quote Originally Posted by johndetrick View Post
    Speedbrakes out for carrier landing according to the NATOPS.
    Thank you for the info! (It worked!)



    Cees

  20. #20
    SOH-CM-2023 Cees Donker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Zoetermeer, Netherlands
    Age
    67
    Posts
    4,571





    Having a great time with this one!



    Cees

  21. #21
    Cees, is that CVA-31 one of Klaus Nowak's 27-Charlie carriers?

  22. #22
    SOH-CM-2023 Cees Donker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Zoetermeer, Netherlands
    Age
    67
    Posts
    4,571
    Quote Originally Posted by TARPSBird View Post
    Cees, is that CVA-31 one of Klaus Nowak's 27-Charlie carriers?
    I don't really know Jerry. I think it's older and was one of Lazarus' files which he has taken with him and are no longer on the OH. I had a very extended Boat-folder on my old computer which I transferred to the new one.
    The folder has this title: USS_Bonnehomme_Richard.
    The cfg-file:

    [fltsim.0]
    title=USS_Bonnehomme_Richard
    model=
    texture=


    [fltsim.1]
    title=USS_Oriskany
    model=
    texture=oriskany


    [fltsim.2]
    title=USS_Hancock
    model=
    texture=hancock


    [fltsim.3]
    title=USS_Lexington
    model=
    texture=lexington


    [fltsim.4]
    title=USS_Shangri_La
    model=
    texture=shangrila


    [fltsim.5]
    title=USS_Oriskany_loaded
    model=loaded
    texture=oriskanyloaded


    [fltsim.6]
    title=USS_ShangriLa_loaded
    model=loaded
    texture=shangrilaloaded


    [fltsim.7]
    title=USS_Hancock_loaded
    model=loaded
    texture=hancockloaded


    [fltsim.8]
    title=USS_Bonnehomme_Richard_loaded
    model=loaded
    texture=BonnehommeRichardloaded


    [General]
    category=Boat


    [contact_points]
    static_pitch=0.0 //degrees, pitch when at rest on the ground (+=Up, -=Dn)
    static_cg_height=0.0 //feet, altitude of CG when at rest on the ground


    [DesignSpecs]
    max_speed_mph = 50
    acceleration_constants = 0.5, 0.4 //Time constant (effects responsiveness), and max acceleration (Gs)
    deceleration_constants = 2.0, 0.5 //Time constant (effects responsiveness), and max acceleration (Gs)
    SternPosition = 50


    [Effects]
    wake = fx_wake_l
    //wake = fx_wake_haa_Essex

    [fltsim.8] is added by me because it only had one with an empty deck.

    Cees

  23. #23
    if you have a few dollars spare you should look at these addons for Naval aviation

    https://secure.simmarket.com/cimogt.mhtml

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Cees Donker View Post
    Thank you for the info! (It worked!)



    Cees
    Speedbrakes were ALWAYS used in the A-4, A-3, F-4, A-6, EA-6B, F-14. As I recall the S-3 did not, nor the F-8 or A-7 as I recall. The location of S/Bs on these planes did not allow it or they would likely also have been used.

    The higher RPM range with "boards out" on approach gave very quick rpm changes which made glideslope control and bolters much easier because of this quick response.

    The A-3 in particular would float like a kite if a little fast and you did not keep up with speed control; the boards made a big difference in power control with the J-57s. In fact the J-57 was the grandmother of the JT3 / JT8 series of low bypass fan engines, though it was a split spool, not a fan.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by TARPSBird View Post
    Cees, is that CVA-31 one of Klaus Nowak's 27-Charlie carriers?
    Think that is one of Gary Payneís last series of Essex boats. I enjoy these and his Midway carriers most of all for SEA era ops.
    Striker, listen, and you listen close: flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle, just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes.

Members who have read this thread: 2

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •