Boeing B-314 "The Clipper" released! - Page 4
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Thread: Boeing B-314 "The Clipper" released!

  1. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by heywooood View Post
    Anyhoo - I do wish this constant flaming and bashing would end but - who are we kidding. "this is the way" apparently..
    HeyHeyWood, aren't you going a bit overboard (to stay on topic) with the 'constant flaming and bashing' ?...

    Constant ?... Where's the flaming and bashing with for instance the recently released Farman F.60, P-40N, DHC-4 Caribou, Bf-108 Taifun, Mig-15bis ? (Ok, i made a remark about the,say,inelegant spinning prop anims of the otherwise superb Caribou model. But that's all ! ;-)

    No flaming nore bashing going on regarding any of these new MSFS models. Atleast not according to my understanding of what flaming and bashing means. Sure, the normal wishes to please fix this or please add that but you can hardly call that flaming and bashing, can you.

    The subject of this thread happend to be an 'abnormal release'. Something that shouldn't have been released in the state it was in in the first place. You should be able to agree with that, right ? Just because of that it got pretty bad reviews and IMHO well deserved too.

  2. #77
    Personally, I don't want to write anything about the B314 for MSFS because I don't have it. There are always two sides, the developer side and the user side. One may be disappointed with sales (e.g. quantity) and annoying users, the other with quality and price, because they usually expect a good and finished product with an attractive price. The problem that I often see, and where the later problems of users come from, is the situation when the developer tests everything on his own, without contacts with several beta testers presenting different knowladge levels and playing on different hardware. Then it turns out that the users are disappointed and start screaming loudly after release. Can we blame them if the testing procedures were not done? Not completely. Of course - never, even in the testing phase, you can't avoid the "free of bugs" version, but you can minimize them to a minimum. Enough for the end user to be satisfied despite the fact that it will not be perfect. The basic problems hurt the most and if they are visible, the question arises how the product was tested and whether it is not really the case that the developer simply rushed to release the model. But then the mistake is on his side according me. No user who pays full price wants to be a beta tester (or even alpha) unless there is a discounted price for that time and it is clearly stated. An example of DCS modules, although here we are talking about incomplete functionalities (mainly ), not bugs (in general). So it's not as simple as some people think. Generally, in such cases - have a group of trusted enthusiasts, then you should test, test and test and develop the product again, and finally inform about everything well with a clear road map of developing, if we are talking about a beta version for the user who buys the product. In this situation there will be no surprises that the water is rising around the hull like in one video here. My 2 cents. Btw. Pilot's B314 for P3B was my one favorite model from many.
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  3. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by DC1973 View Post
    As you should. But none of that was my point. It's whether you properly review something or not. Rushing a "review" out the day after something launches is no better than the developer rushing out their aircraft. Reviewers can't have it both ways, but that's precisely what some want and do. Everything else added since is just noise around the edges of that single reality.ETA: JB's reviews routinely contain basic errors, factual inaccuracies, assumptions and so on. Where is the outcry about such things, if standards are applied fairly to both product and reviewer?.
    Well, I can only speak for myself, but I'm not paying anyone to watch their YouTube review. Why would I hold a Youtuber to the same standards as a company who sold me a $50.00 product? What am I going to do, ask them for my time back? If I don't like what someone has to say in a youtube video, I simply move on with my life and don't watch their videos anymore.

    If I were in PILOTS shoes, I would have probably just (politely) pointed out in the comments the things the review got wrong and referred them to the manual and moved on from it. I have no idea who JB, never heard of him until PILOTS made such a fuss over his review. But I do watch ITB and PILOTS also took issue with IntoTheBlue's review, so I'm starting to think maybe the reviews are not the real issue here and someone at PILOTS is having a bit of difficulty accepting criticism.

    The product page has only this to say about the state of the aircraft at release:

    "Although none of the original 12 Clipper aircraft were preserved, the inspiration to create this PILOTíS representation of the B-314, which over time will be developed to study level, is to allow this majestic flying machine to yet again take to the skies, even if just to the virtual skies!"

    "Study level concept, some features under construction"

    Ok, well, what features are under construction? What features are considered complete? How am I supposed to know if something is broken, missing, incomplete, or just not implemented yet? It will be improved over time, ok, how much time? Weeks? Months? Years? Also, they state over on the official forums that as more features are added, the price will increase. No mention of that anywhere on their website either. Their "known issues" section contains nothing but issues they say are out of their control (Asobos fault), yet these problems have already been solved by developers of other products.

    Sure seems like a little more communication on PILOTS behalf would have been much more beneficial than lashing out at people over a review you don't like.

  4. #79
    Why would I hold a Youtuber to the same standards as a company who sold me a $50.00 product?
    I think this line demonstrates perfectly everything I have been saying. Nuff' said.
    I wish I had enough time to finish writing everything I sta...https://www.facebook.com/DC-Designs-2156295428024778/

  5. #80
    Many of our communityís brightest stars have participated in this post. I value each one and their opinions.

    I have yet (and Iím really waiting eagerly) to buy the Clipper- based mostly on what I read and see. It simply isnít up to current standards. Hopefully that will change soon.

    I bought the An-2 at $10 and am blown away by the modeling and textures- not to mention the exquisite flight modeling from Alex Metzger.

    I shall wait in hope as I really want a long night over water (with a Sextant). Meanwhile, I have my precious DC-6 and Annuschka to lose myself in.

    Best- C

  6. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by cavaricooper View Post
    Meanwhile, I have my precious DC-6 and Annuschka to lose myself in.
    There you go, Carl, what else do you need, ťh ?..

    (btw, your post can't be edited, that happens sometimes here, i borrowed your quote line from another post. ;-)

    Even if the Clipper model got its update now that makes it all more enjoyable than it was before i can't honestly say go ahead and buy it. Maybe if the price was lower, like 10 bucks or something. But now with the brilliant all over Anuschka for about 10 bucks the price for the Clipper will need to be lowered to 1 buck to keep the comparison... ;-)

    No, the Clipper model in its current state is highly overpriced. There's a lot of bugs in it and lots of unfinished stuff and the VC textures are mediocre at best (somebody should really do something about that heartbraking green in the cockpit and cabin...) but still, the external model does look good and it is well flyable now and take-off's and landings are quite a treat to view from outside. The Clipper itself is an awe inspiring piece of aviation history of course and helps a lot in getting a feeling for the model even how unfinished it really is.

    If you was planning to spend 30 bucks on a few hours drinking with your friends in the pub, i'd say skip one over and buy that Clipper instead.

  7. #82
    Makes for nice exterior screenshots, but it is lacking in many areas as you have read. The ITB youtube review is a fair assessment of the product. In the meantime, check out that freeware T-37 Tweeter. It's awesome.
    Be yourself. Everyone else is already taken.

  8. #83
    There you go, Carl, what else do you need, ťh ?..

    (btw, your post can't be edited, that happens sometimes here, i borrowed your quote line from another post. ;-)
    Your post can't be edited or quoted either. It's because of the non-standard characters in each. Yours is the ť, and his is the slanted apostrophe in "communityís." If it's not US-based ASCII, it throws off the edit and quote functions. The work-around for editing is to copy the entire post first, then click the edit button and paste everything back in for editing.
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  9. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by dvj View Post
    Makes for nice exterior screenshots, but it is lacking in many areas as you have read. The ITB youtube review is a fair assessment of the product. In the meantime, check out that freeware T-37 Tweeter. It's awesome.
    Tell me about it, dvj. I was in love with that thing already in FS9 when it was first released by the devs who flew the real Tweet. I recall it had the same quality in FS9 as for instance the AN-2 today in MSFS. It was truly superb. I still hear that high pitched whine ! But hey, dunno bout you but i can't handle that much quality in one go my friend. THAT much quality and one for nothing and the other one for next to nothing ??!!..... The Clipper debacle couldn't have been set straight more pleasantly and to the point. Jerome can put that in his pipe and smoke it.

    I'll first fly the wings off of my beloved Anuschka and then see about the Tweet (i'm not on Twitter, mind you..). See about the Tweet know it's gonna be Sweet.

  10. #85
    @ Tom:

    You know what, your post cannot be quoted either ( obviously...)

    Thanks Tom, yeah you told me that before but you know what (2), in one test i used only the last line of Carls post (i cleverly omitted the apostrophe here...;-) and still the Preview Post window turned up blanc...

    That's why i usually put my posts together in notepad if its more than one or two lines.

    cheers,
    Jan

  11. #86
    I used to review things, but I donít any more. Iím a writer, and YouTube leaves me cold.

    My golden rule was to actually use the product for several hours, then try to achieve a balanced review. Of course, there were sometimes product howlers, but the other thing I did was show the review to the developers or publishers before it was posted.

    Apart from anything else, Iíd often be able to incorporate any response in the review, and quite often the problem would get fixed.

    I think that the problem with social media is that the attention cycle is so short that you miss out on these courtesies. Then you have issues like this one.

  12. #87
    I might have been inarticulate - all I was tryint o point out is the difference between constructive or polite criticism..and disparagement.
    Also - comparing the fidelity of one developers' release of an extinct aircraft to another's rendition of the AN-2 which has hundreds of still airworthy examples is a bit unfair.
    Also - some developers have shown a fair bit of sensitivity to criticism and that's less than ideal - but no one (that I know anyway) receives disparagement well - and as I said, this environment of flight sim 'community' is more or less a contact sport at this point.
    Again - I'm not pointing to anyone in particular, all a person has to do is read the posts and they can see this stuff in real time. Although I do think that the rise of insult comedy and the prevalence of hostile sarcasm in general have probably inured folks to the
    harm it does to the greater good. That's why I say the community 'can be' at times - its own worst enemy.
    Sorry if that opinion upsets people.
    enter..the Sandman

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  13. #88
    I for one , agree 100% with you , Heywood.

  14. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by heywooood View Post
    Also - comparing the fidelity of one developers' release of an extinct aircraft to another's rendition of the AN-2 which has hundreds of still airworthy examples is a bit unfair.
    Did you buy the initial Clipper package, heywoood ? If you did what did you think about it ?

    I don't think the subject of an aircraft model being extinct or still alive and flying has anything to do with this unfortunate event. What matters is is that the developer of the AN-2 model has clearly put his heart and soul and all dedication he could muster into his project. There simply is no heart, no soul, no dedication to find in the Clipper model. No use to mention all the bugs, faults and imperfections again. But these are certainly not caused by the subject of the model being extinct. Tell me why if you think otherwise.

    I'd love to tell you what I think is unfair but i also love this tragic story to go away so i won't

    Btw, the only reason i compared the Clipper model with the AN-2 model is because they are two of the latest MSFS aircraft add-ons. One at the top, one at the bottom.

  15. #90
    what I know about this Clipper is what I have seen on the net, youtube and forum posts, developers own images and posts.
    I almost never buy anything until the dust settles as a general rule. Nothing is ever really ready for release when it's released.
    My opinion had only to do with the way the Boeing was received out of the gate. Some planes are just a bit TOO iconic I think.
    The availability of living examples is relevant to my mind because you are more likely as a developer to gain access to recent and real world photo's and videos in high resolution, as well as
    more recent and useful pilot accounts.
    You are right to ask if I owned this one - I do not yet. But if you made the assumption that if I had I would be ok with the discourse I've seen? not so much.
    Even when there's disappointment I try to remember that there are folks, or a guy on the other end of the line who (if I'm not mistaken) are trying their best to add something to flight sim that people will enjoy.
    I've witnessed first hand the absolute devastation that happens when they do not get the benefit of the doubt if that first attempt falls short of the mark. Criticism is good, important to driving progress - the other stuff is counter productive at best.
    enter..the Sandman

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  16. #91
    FYI - Pilotsdev has announced an update to the 314 due today
    see the official forum thread for info about the changes and a video
    edit - for some reason I can’t copy the link to this post
    enter..the Sandman

    visit Heywood Planes - YouTube

  17. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by heywooood View Post
    FYI - Pilotsdev has announced an update to the 314 due todaysee the official forum thread for info about the changes and a videoedit - for some reason I can’t copy the link to this post
    All models.) Animated and functional external exits added to all models. These can becontrolled via the intercom panel to the left of the VC Engineer Panel. Usetooltips to see, which switch opens/closes which door..) Animated and functional VC wing access doors added to all models..) Seaports seperated into individual BGLs to facilitate user customization..) Exterior textures now show more surface detail..) New and much better detailled leather and metal frame textures on VCchairs.Fixed:.) B-314 Manifold Pressure Gauge on Engineer Panel set to incorrect scale..) B-314 Engine RPM Gauge Needles on Cockpit Panel were swapped..) B-314A Engine RPM Gauge Needles on Cockpit Panel had incorrect scale..) B-314A Engine RPM Gauge Needles on Cockpit Panel were swapped..) B-314A Hobbs Meter on Engineer Panel had INOP hour digits..) B-314A Manifold Pressure Gauge on Engineer Panel set to incorrect scale..) B-314A Flaps adjusted to have the same extension levels as the B-314.Know IssuesThe Fuel Tank Selection Dials all show a visible OFF at startup, even thoughthe engines are running. The LVars for the dials are set correctly, theirposition is not passed on correctly from the FLT LVar section to the visiblemodel. This is being discussed with Asobo.The Mooring Light Switch, which activates a mooring of the aircraft withposition hold and the mooring lines appearing, is not functional upon a Cold& Dark startup. This is due to the same LVar issue as described above.
    Be yourself. Everyone else is already taken.

  18. #93
    1.15v the next patch

    We have just released an update for Boeing B314 - The Clipper for MSFS.
    This brings it up to V 1.15 and it contains the follwing changes and improvements:

    All models
    Animated and functional external exits added to all models. These can be controlled via the intercom panel to the left of the VC Engineer Panel.

    Animated and functional VC wing access doors added to all models.

    Seaports seperated into individual BGLs to facilitate user customization.

    Exterior textures now show more surface detail.

    New leather and metal frame textures on VC chairs.

    B-314 Manifold Pressure Gauge on Engineer Panel set to incorrect scale - Fixed.
    B-314 Engine RPM Gauge Needles on Cockpit Panel were swapped - Fixed.

    B-314A Engine RPM Gauge Needles on Cockpit Panel had incorrect scale - Fixed.
    B-314A Engine RPM Gauge Needles on Cockpit Panel were swapped - Fixed.
    B-314A Hobbs Meter on Engineer Panel had INOP hour digits - Fixed.
    B-314A Manifold Pressure Gauge on Engineer Panel set to incorrect scale - Fixed.
    B-314A Flaps adjusted to have the same extension levels as the B-314.

    Know Issues
    The Fuel Tank Selection Dials all show a visible OFF at startup, even when the engines are running. The LVars for the dials are set correctly, their position is not passed on correctly from the FLT LVar section to the visible model. This is being discussed with Asobo.

    The Mooring Light Switch, which activates a mooring of the aicraft with position hold and the mooring lines appearing, is not functional upon a Cold & Dark startup. This is due to the same LVar issue as described above.
    Webmaster of yoyosims.pl.

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  19. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by heywooood View Post
    edit - for some reason I canít copy the link to this post
    I can...

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  20. #95
    thenks Tom - I was on my phone this morning and for some reason it kept copying the wrong thread

    ..couldn't have been operator error though..lol
    enter..the Sandman

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  21. #96
    it was fairly easy to install again, although I still have to disable my anti-virus software to do it. The exterior bump maps have been increased.Doors open and closeflight deck seats do look better.Guages have been fixed. Other items noted in the update text are a work in progress. I will not express any opinion one way or the other. The exterior now remindes me of an Airfix model I once owned.
    Be yourself. Everyone else is already taken.

  22. #97
    Another update:This is to inform you, we just released v1.15a of the aircraft.It does not contain any new fixes, but corrects the fact, that parts of aninternal experimental version for new external rivets were mixed into theproduction version by accident.We regret the inconvenience caused and appologize.
    Be yourself. Everyone else is already taken.

  23. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by dvj View Post
    Another update:This is to inform you, we just released v1.15a of the aircraft.It does not contain any new fixes, but corrects the fact, that parts of aninternal experimental version for new external rivets were mixed into theproduction version by accident.We regret the inconvenience caused and appologize.
    Meaning it is back to what we see here, from 5.55 onwards ?


  24. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by heywooood View Post
    what I know about this Clipper is what I have seen on the net, youtube and forum posts, developers own images and posts.
    I almost never buy anything until the dust settles as a general rule. Nothing is ever really ready for release when it's released.
    My opinion had only to do with the way the Boeing was received out of the gate. Some planes are just a bit TOO iconic I think.
    The availability of living examples is relevant to my mind because you are more likely as a developer to gain access to recent and real world photo's and videos in high resolution, as well as
    more recent and useful pilot accounts.
    You are right to ask if I owned this one - I do not yet. But if you made the assumption that if I had I would be ok with the discourse I've seen? not so much.
    Even when there's disappointment I try to remember that there are folks, or a guy on the other end of the line who (if I'm not mistaken) are trying their best to add something to flight sim that people will enjoy.
    I've witnessed first hand the absolute devastation that happens when they do not get the benefit of the doubt if that first attempt falls short of the mark. Criticism is good, important to driving progress - the other stuff is counter productive at best.
    Ok, heywooody, i do see your point but i cannot share it. If a developer launces a totally unfinished and uncared for product into the MSFS waters for free that's fine. We can all have a laugh about it for a couple minutes, delete it and move on. Over and out. But if he wants to be payed 30 bucks for it he can expect the critic vultures to swoop down on it. They are always waiting you know. And they were very hungry at the moment that the dev dared to launch his Clipper model because they didn't have something to eat for a long time. This was easy prey, nothing you can do about that.

    With another update released now we'd best close this pitiful story and see what will happen. In any case this is my swan song, to stay on topic.

    Cheers,
    Jan

  25. #100
    no worries - having different opinions is as ordinary as being able to discuss them politely should be. Looks like we did both. Cheers, Jan

    and in the interest of staying on topic - looks like Pilot's is making relatively quick and positive upgrades to their Boeing - so that's great.
    Everything's coming up Milhouse
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