Should I Switch to VR? August Answers Your Questions!

[Daube]

This is strange, my VR headset is always connected to the computer, and when I activate the VR mode in MSFS (with CTRL+TAB, default assignment if I'm not mistaken), it automatically triggers the Windows Mixed Reality Portal application, which switches the headset ON, and I get the picture in the headset after a few seconds.
I also had to install OpenXR runtimes, and I also installed the OpenXR Development Tools from Microsoft, which has this purple icon with transparent background in my start menu,
That application has three tabstrips, the last one is "Mixed Reality" and it tells me if the OpenXR runtime is active or not. If not, it offers me a button to "define OpenXR runtime as active runtime" or something like that. Just a click and its done.

Just in case, did you check in your MS Store application if all your applications were up to date ? (Library-> "get updates" button)

[Javis]

Thanks Daube ! But please disregard because I AM IN !!!! I AM A PILOT !!!! HOLY MOLY !!!!

You know, earlier i have asked MSFS VR users what it felt like when they flew in VR for the first time. Now i know about that myself !!.... You know what, i almost cried.....

For my first VR flight ever i took one of my ultimate fav planes, the Tiger Moth. Thought to keep it simple too and flew from EHAM Schiphol to my house following the river Zaan, about a 10 minutes flight. Never thought about that before of course but my brand new Reverb G2 headset felt immidiately like i was wearing goggles ! Because that's what you'd wear flying a real Tiggie, right ? I can honestly say that it enhanced the immersion even more because of that. You'd be called mildly insane when you fly a Tiggie in MSFS wearing goggles (although i can imagine their must be a few individuals who do just that...hehe) but wearing a VR headset is perfectly ligitimate, isn't it. ;-)

Well, Daube, i shall have to buy another keyboard because i simply cannot find the words to describe what i felt during my frist VR flight. It is true, right ? There are no words to describe it. Maybe the closest would indeed be "once you've flown in VR you'll never go back to MSFS on your 2D monitor". Even with my first VR flight i know now that MSFS in 2D has no meaning. Can i say that ???

Also when i said " I am over the moon" with my first VR experience inside the Windows Mixed Reality environment i can now say that " I am over Mars or even Pluto" with my first VR experience flying in MSFS !

Like i said earlier, i thought the main problem i could not get my headset to work in MSFS is the fact that the 'VR-Camera Reset' option was grey-ed out, i.e. there would be a squared Question Mark in place of the key binding. Some help turned up once i clicked "Activate VR" with the same warning message and a button to click that said 'Assign Binding'. Totally worthless because it takes you to the Control Options which doesn't have a 'VR-Camera Reset' entry...

I might have seen the light when i finally did a search for 'VR-Camera Reset'.... I then got one that wasn't grey-ed out so finally i could assign a key-combination. Et voila !!! A rudimentairy stereo image on my monitor ! I quickly put my G2 on my head and was lucky to have myself strapped in already otherwise i would've fallen out again right away... WOW!!!! I'M SITTING IN A COCKPIT !!!! HOLY MOLY INDEED!!!

Well, the rest is history. VR history !! Hehe... Have to mention one downside... The fact that you have the stick, throttle and mixture levers so close by and right in front of you and so extremely life like but still are not able to grab them is nothing short of a Tantalus Torture !! But i am sure willing to live with that inconvenience !! ;-)

I'm leaving all these truckloads of various settings and stuff from the Youtube MSFS/VR tutorial videos for later, my first VR flight looked and performed like a dream but that was probabely because it really was a dream come true !! After a bit more experience i'll go and see about those settings tuts again. I know what's it all about now. that's important.

Thank you again and again Daube, August and everybody else who participated here in this MSFS Virtual Reality extravaganza ! I can't tell you how happy i am having participated too and that it made me a REAL PILOT finally because that's what it truly feels like !!! ;-)))

THANK YOU, GENTLEMEN

[Daube]

I AM IN !!!! I AM A PILOT !!!! HOLY MOLY !!!! :[/SIZE][/COLOR]

Ah excellent !! Glad you could solve the problem finally. Welcome to the "new" sim world

You know, earlier i have asked MSFS VR users what it felt like when they flew in VR for the first time. Now i know about that myself !!.... You know what, i almost cried.....

I completely know what you mean. It was pretty similar for me when my brother let me put a VR headset on my face for the first time !

For my first VR flight ever i took one of my ultimate fav planes, the Tiger Moth. Thought to keep it simple too and flew from EHAM Schiphol to my house following the river Zaan, about a 10 minutes flight. Never thought about that before of course but my brand new Reverb G2 headset felt immidiately like i was wearing goggles ! Because that's what you'd wear flying a real Tiggie, right ? I can honestly say that it enhanced the immersion even more because of that. You'd be called mildly insane when you fly a Tiggie in MSFS wearing goggles (although i can imagine their must be a few individuals who do just that...hehe) but wearing a VR headset is perfectly ligitimate, isn't it. ;-)

The Moth ? That was a perfect choice indeed. Simple enough so you don't have to fight with the plane controls/buttons at first, and great view point in VR !
I see what you mean about the googles, and I confess I never thought about it before. It actually makes a lot of sense...
About being insane... well, no matter what, we DO look insane when wearing these VR googles in front of our computers anyways, so we're just being consistent here, aren't we

Well, Daube, i shall have to buy another keyboard because i simply cannot find the words to describe what i felt during my frist VR flight. It is true, right ?

Yes, that is absolutely correct.
We just can't describe that to anybody who hasn't tried VR yet. It's not possible.

There are no words to describe it. Maybe the closest would indeed be "once you've flown in VR you'll never go back to MSFS on your 2D monitor". Even with my first VR flight i know now that MSFS in 2D has no meaning. Can i say that ???

You can say it, although with time you will find occasions where the VR headset is best "temporarily removed" to really enjoy the flight. For example, when setting up an FMC/MCDU in a modern airliner. It can be done in VR, yes, but sometimes you just want to do it in 2D, because it's easier. But it's just a matter of personal preferences, really

Thank you again and again Daube, August and everybody else who participated here in this MSFS Virtual Reality extravaganza ! I can't tell you how happy i am having participated too and that it made me a REAL PILOT finally because that's what it truly feels like !!!

THANK YOU, GENTLEMEN

I'm really glad to see how much pleasure you could get from that first experience. I was worried you would face problem such as performance/FPS hits etc... but it seems everything went much better than expected, and that's really great.
Now fire these jet engines and go Mach-looping the hell of that valley

[jmig]

Thanks Daube ! But please disregard because I AM IN !!!! I AM A PILOT !!!! HOLY MOLY !!!! ...


...THANK YOU, GENTLEMEN

It was a pleasure to read about your unbridled enthusiasm. May it inspire others to try VR flying.

[Javis]

It was a pleasure to read about your unbridled enthusiasm. May it inspire others to try VR flying.

I truly hope so, John. It's a big step but Boy oh Boy am i happy i have taken it !!

[Javis]

Dear people of VR classification,

I'd like to ask you if you can help me with this : how do i activate the Open XR Toolkit options in the menu ?.... I can use Ctrl/F1 to Ctrl/F4 to move around the menu, the option turns to white but then what ?.... Enter doesn't seem to do anything.... I want to eliminate the annoying time restriction by going into the Menu and then select 'None' . It turns to white alright but Enter to activate it doesn't do anything... What's the trick here, gentlemen ??

Any hint/tip highly appreciated !

Going quite well furthermore. Extremely enjoying my ' VR test flights' ! Indeed lots of testing still to do. I'm on average 30 fps atm ( we cannot turn max fps off in VR like we can normally in 2D, right ?...). My about 3 year old system is beginning to show its age in VR. I still can be happy with it (in VR that is) but i do feel that "Get a new computer, maestro" monkey on my back again like it's been there all the time from FSII up until and including FSX (P3D v4 was a revelation ! ;-)

Anyway, not important, i feel like i'm flying for real finally and that's what it's all about.

Thanks !

[Javis]

Ah excellent !! Glad you could solve the problem finally. Welcome to the "new" sim world

Thank you, Daube. I am so glad to be here !

I completely know what you mean. It was pretty similar for me when my brother let me put a VR headset on my face for the first time !

Yes, truly an epiphany, wasn't it ! Pure magic !! ( like i first saw FSII on a Commodore 64 coming from 'Nightflight' on a ZX Spectrum 48K ! ;-)

The Moth ? That was a perfect choice indeed. Simple enough so you don't have to fight with the plane controls/buttons at first, and great view point in VR !

Getting more and more clear the Tiggie will be my favourite aeroplane to fly in VR. Love the Kaydet very much as well but atm i can't seem to get it properly centered by using the designated key combination. Do love the wind sound which is not that much available in the Tiger Moth. I absolutely adore the 3D gauges and wooden dashboard in the Tiggie cockpit. Looks so totally real ! Hate it that i cannot touch them !! ;-)

I see what you mean about the googles, and I confess I never thought about it before. It actually makes a lot of sense...

Well, i am a stickler for pilot gear, Daube, goggles, helmets, O2 masks, life preservers, chutes and harnass, flight suits, G-suits, etc., have a nice collection gathered over the years, anything from the 1920's to just about now :

You can say it, although with time you will find occasions where the VR headset is best "temporarily removed" to really enjoy the flight. For example, when setting up an FMC/MCDU in a modern airliner. It can be done in VR, yes, but sometimes you just want to do it in 2D, because it's easier. But it's just a matter of personal preferences, really

Oh, sure ! Not looking forward to programming an FMC in VR ! With all the aircraft i still have to try in VR i think modern airliners will come last. Not much of a modern 'from A to B' airliner flightsimmer anyway. Loved the PMDG 737 in FSX though and i did love the Airbus A310 in FS9 so i do like having it back in MSFS. 'Biggest' i have tried sofar in VR is the DC-3. In the cockpit i already notice a problem i don't have in the Tiger Moth: the lower and further away gauges become hard to read.... Nontheless it was a mighty wonderful experience flying the DC-3 in VR ! Wow!!

I'm really glad to see how much pleasure you could get from that first experience. I was worried you would face problem such as performance/FPS hits etc... but it seems everything went much better than expected, and that's really great.

My first flight was really a flightsimmer's dream come true. Like i said i almost cried...;-) But now it's more like 'hard work' to get to the bottom (or rather the top of course) of what VR flightsimming is all about. So much to learn still (mostly from Youtube vids), check out, adapt and test. But it's so much fun doing it !

Now fire these jet engines and go Mach-looping the hell of that valley

Hehe, i'm saving that for when i really feel comfortable in VR, framerate, smoothness and quality. Lotta testing still to do ! But i am very much looking forward to that !

Bien amicalement,
Jan

[Daube]

Dear people of VR classification,

I'd like to ask you if you can help me with this : how do i activate the Open XR Toolkit options in the menu ?.... I can use Ctrl/F1 to Ctrl/F4 to move around the menu, the option turns to white but then what ?.... Enter doesn't seem to do anything.... I want to eliminate the annoying time restriction by going into the Menu and then select 'None' . It turns to white alright but Enter to activate it doesn't do anything... What's the trick here, gentlemen ??

Any hint/tip highly appreciated !

From the openXR website, it seems that you need to use the keys assigned to the left or right movement. Per default, it should be something like that:
Use CTRL+F2 to move to the next option (next line) in the menu.
Use CTRL+F1 to move selection to the left / decrease the option value.
Use CTRL+F3 to move selection to the right / increase the option value.
Hold both SHIFT and CTRL together to change values fasters

Taken from https://mbucchia.github.io/OpenXR-Toolkit/ (scroll down the page to find these instructions)

[Daube]

Thank you, Daube. I am so glad to be here !

Wow your collection is impressive

You're also going quite fast in your research.
Concerning the FPS unlock, I believe there are three settings mostly that play a role:
1- the internal FPS limiter in MSFS (in the "PC" section of the settings, for the 2D mode). Ensure it's unlimited. I don't remember right now if that setting is also available in VR mode though...
2- the VSync. Keep it disabled.
3- out of the sim, somewhere in the Windows settings or in the Windows Mixed Reality portal settings, I don't remember for sure, but there is somewhere a setting where you choose the display frequency or your helmet. Mine is at 90Hz or something like that. Ensure it didn't go down to 60 Hz or anything.

[Javis]

Wow your collection is impressive

Thanks!

You're also going quite fast in your research.
Concerning the FPS unlock, I believe there are three settings mostly that play a role:
1- the internal FPS limiter in MSFS (in the "PC" section of the settings, for the 2D mode). Ensure it's unlimited. I don't remember right now if that setting is also available in VR mode though...

I looked for it but can't find it. Only in 'PC'... It's at unlimited indeed.

2- the VSync. Keep it disabled.

Yes, it's Off. I am mostly following the settings of this 'SimHangar Flight Simulation' guy at Youtube. It's only that after watching 4 of his VR tutorials his voice is starting to irritate me a little bit...

3- out of the sim, somewhere in the Windows settings or in the Windows Mixed Reality portal settings, I don't remember for sure, but there is somewhere a setting where you choose the display frequency or your helmet. Mine is at 90Hz or something like that. Ensure it didn't go down to 60 Hz or anything.

Yes, 90 is suggested by the tutorial maestro as well so that's where mine is too.

Thanks again, Daube !

[Javis]

From the openXR website, it seems that you need to use the keys assigned to the left or right movement. Per default, it should be something like that:
Use CTRL+F2 to move to the next option (next line) in the menu.
Use CTRL+F1 to move selection to the left / decrease the option value.
Use CTRL+F3 to move selection to the right / increase the option value.
Hold both SHIFT and CTRL together to change values fasters

Taken from https://mbucchia.github.io/OpenXR-Toolkit/ (scroll down the page to find these instructions)

Thanks much, Daube !

Yes, that's exactly what is at the bottom of the menu as well. That works fine (well, more or less..). I tried holding Shift and Ctrl together (that's something *not* described at the bottom of the menu...) to activate an option but can't get that to work neither... Have to say i do think this is by far the most tedious and awkard way to work with a menu !

It should be available in 2D and that time-out thing is driving me crazy ! Only god knows why on virtual earth they thought that would be handy. I think for the time being i won't bother with it anymore. I certainly don't want it to spoil the enormous pleasure i'm having with my new amazing VR toy.

Do you do anything with it, Daube ?...

Btw, do you know anything about 'Nvidia Reflex Low Latency' ?.... It's 'ON' at my MSFS VR settings and seems to be 'stuck' . 'Off' is simply not availble. Might it be because of specific settings in GeForce Experience ? (i have a RTX 2080Ti)

Thanks again !

[Daube]

Concerning the OpenXR toolkit, I agree with you the interface is really a nightmare.
However, I have stopped using that tool a while ago. My current video card, a GTX1070ti, is too old to benefit from any of the new features that tool brought in the latest versions.
I was only using the scaling slider, but finally it was not really bringing much performance increase on my computer which is too limited, hardware-wise.
I'll have to reconsider using that tool after I upgrade my hardware, though.

Concerning the NVidia Reflex stuff, I confess I have not understood yet what it was about. I haven't even tried playing with that parameter yet, in fact

Worst thing is I can't even fly anymore. My VR headset (well, a part of it) has broken and it's now unusable. I'm not mad, I used it quite intensively for 4 years, so...
However that means I can't use MSFS anymore. Flying in 2D is... well, you know now
So it appears the time to upgrade my computer has come sooner than I expected.

[Javis]

Concerning the OpenXR toolkit, I agree with you the interface is really a nightmare.
However, I have stopped using that tool a while ago. My current video card, a GTX1070ti, is too old to benefit from any of the new features that tool brought in the latest versions.
I was only using the scaling slider, but finally it was not really bringing much performance increase on my computer which is too limited, hardware-wise.
I'll have to reconsider using that tool after I upgrade my hardware, though.

Thanks for your comment, Daube. It might be of little use for my current RTX 2080Ti card as well. In just about all VR tuts on the tube i have seen it's usually about 3K or even 4K series cards. Phew! That's much more than i payed for my precious Reverb G2 ! (no clue if it would be worthwhile to upgrade my 2080 card while keeping my current i9 9900K CPU. Actually i don't think so. Not that my current rig doesn't like VR !...;-) I'd be glad to leave that awkward menu thing alone for maybe later.

Concerning the NVidia Reflex stuff, I confess I have not understood yet what it was about. I haven't even tried playing with that parameter yet, in fact

Atm i can't seem to turn it off, that's why it confuses me a bit. It seems to mostly have to do with firstperson shooter games where it's suppose to upgrade the 'trigger/display reaction time' from a millisecond to a picosecond... I guess not much use for us then...

Worst thing is I can't even fly anymore. My VR headset (well, a part of it) has broken and it's now unusable. I'm not mad, I used it quite intensively for 4 years, so...
However that means I can't use MSFS anymore. Flying in 2D is... well, you know now
So it appears the time to upgrade my computer has come sooner than I expected.

Well i'm sorry to hear that, Daube ! Then again sometimes such things might turn out for the good when you look it over later. Good luck dealing with this unfortunate event and i wish you a wise decision my friend.

[Dangerous Beans]

Hey Javis, now you've had a bit of time to enjoy the VR experience I was wondering if you've notice an improvement in your landings.

With the much improved depth perception in VR my landings have become a lot better that they where in pancake mode. Mine where always very hit and miss before as I found it difficult to gauge how far I was from the runway to get the flair just right so I would usually bounce more often than not.

[Javis]

Hey Javis, now you've had a bit of time to enjoy the VR experience I was wondering if you've notice an improvement in your landings.

With the much improved depth perception in VR my landings have become a lot better that they where in pancake mode. Mine where always very hit and miss before as I found it difficult to gauge how far I was from the runway to get the flair just right so I would usually bounce more often than not.

Coincidently i've made a couple of my best ever landings today ! Didn't even notice i had landed... Mind you, certainly not the most difficult airplanes to land but some of 'em taildraggers, because i love taildraggers (Tiger Moth, Kaydet, Cub, Waco, but also DC-3, Beaver, T6, etc). What i notice most with landings in VR is that the actual landing usually happens earlier than expected, as in expected with the truckloads of landings i did in normal 2D FS. I guess somehow VR makes me feel i'm sitting higher above the ground than in 2D. I do think it helps me making better landings and it does feel great but also surprised... "Oh.... we're down already, how about that..." :-)

Still have to try the 'serious' stuff like Spitfire, Mustang, Hellcat, Corsair, but today i tried the T6 for the first time and that went very well. I think of the taildraggers the DC-3 is the most difficult to handle. Not seeing your peripherals is one of the biggest downsides of flying VR if you ask me. (no time yet to properly setup my peripherals to replace keys with buttons/switches) Sofar, for me that's the thing that requires the most practise.

Improvement in landings compared to 2D you ask ?... Absolutely !

[K5083]

Javis, it's great to read about your delight with VR. Even though I wasn't quite as blown away by it as you are, your enthusiasm is infectious.

Since you're "all in" on VR for now, I have a few tips that I haven't read elsewhere for getting the most out of it.

- I recommend the Shift-Z plugin at https://flightsim.to/file/16358/shift-z-stats for putting up a real-time frame rate counter while you refine your settings. Map a joystick button to bringing up the toolbar, then you can turn this on and off with your mouse while in VR. You can fiddle with graphics settings and see how many fps it costs you -- usually. Unfortunately some require you to restart the sim to take effect, making their impact harder to evaluate.

- You may notice sometimes when you spawn in or switch to VR, your frame rates are much lower than you expect for the situation - like say, 10 fps when you were expecting 25-30. Often if you wait a minute or two, you will see this resolve itself as the sim gradually spools up to the expected frame rate. It sometimes seems to help to hit Esc and admire the menu options for a while to let the computer catch up with the load. Or, just take your time with the start-up and pre-flight checks.

- I seem to get the smoothest VR experience when I switch to VR before loading a flight, i.e. in the menus or world map, rather than after I spawn.

- The eye position in VR often seems to me to be jammed too far forward against the instrument panel, and often too low. I think some guys try fiddling with the "world scale" because the cockpit looks too big to them, when they really just need to move their seat back. Map some eyepoint fore/aft and up/down controls to your controller or mouse.

- Take the trouble to learn the OpenXR Toolkit when you get a chance. Yes, the UI is horrible but the tweaks really help. MSFS requires more adjustments to look good in VR than any other game I use it with, and this unlocks a lot of them. The downscaling can really help with frame rates in intense environments. The post-processing is also very helpful because I find that MSFS in VR looks dark and muddy compared with on the screen (and compared with other sims in VR). Besides a better UI, I wish it could save presets so that you could switch quickly between performance friendly settings, say when you are at a detailed airport, and quality focused settings for when you are cruising the countryside and can afford some extra eye candy.

- For keeping essential information available without breaking the immersion, I use and recommend the virtual ipad from https://flightsimulator.me/. This addon integrates various widgets previously introduced by this maker - maps, METAR, PDF viewer, online support tools, descent calculator, and more - into an ipad that you can turn on with the tool bar and then resize and move around the cockpit as you please. The original drop down widgets are easier to read and control, but the tablet is less immersion breaking. I usually run the "landingrate" app even for local VFR, to keep track of wind direction and to grade my landings. I think the landing grader may be on the generous side, but that's good for my self esteem.

- I agree with you about my landings being better in VR and also about the earlier than expected touchdown. Something about VR exaggerates distances. If you sit in a Bonanza on the ramp and look out at your wing relative to the ground, it looks like your wing is about 6 feet off the tarmac whereas really the Bonanza has short little main gear and it's not nearly that high. Adjusting the "world scale" does not help. It just takes getting used to. The better landings, I think, are just because of better mental focus.

- You will definitely enjoy the warbirds when you try them. One problem is that those fighter canopy frames close to your head tend to get clipped toward the edges of your vision. When I was setting up my headset, I'm sure I saw a setting for the near clipping distance, but I have never found it again.

- If you still have Prepar3d on your system, give it a try in VR. Everything about VR is easier in Prepar3d then in MSFS, the airplanes look great. Since you're very into the 3D aspect of VR, I think you'll find Prepar3d in VR to be better than MSFS was in 2D.

August

[YoYo]

Concerning the OpenXR toolkit, I agree with you the interface is really a nightmare...

Why? Its not a big problem. The question is your settings. What is important, its a one evening to set up it and after this you can forget about this tool. For me its obligatory and it gives extra sharpness.

I use Clrl+Alt+arrows for this tool:

[Daube]

I was exaggerating a bit, but still the navigation through the items is not comfortable at all.
A mouse clickable window would have been much better, in my opinion.

[Javis]

Javis, it's great to read about your delight with VR. Even though I wasn't quite as blown away by it as you are...

Why not ???!!....

Like i tried to say a couple times already i just can't find words to describe my feelings about when i first put that working VR headset on and all of a sudden find myself sitting in a *REAL* cockpit with all the goodies you'll find in a (Tiger Moth) cockpit around me right there to grab and play around with ! Only the grabbing and playing around with proved not to be part of the dream but otherwise i couldn't believe what was happening here. And that was when i was still sitting on the runway, once in the air i thought i had died and gone to heaven.

Since i have your attention now, August, i'd like to THANK YOU A MILLION!! for posting this thread about VR ! Who knows how long it would still have taken me getting of off that fence, bite the bullit and finally put the money down for such a VR headset which i have been extremely interested in from the day it became possible. It took me so long because i still had no faith in the performance of FS when using VR, even not after MSFS was released. I still wasn't even totally convinced when i decided to buy the Reverb G2 and that's probabely why i was so incredibly blown away by my first Flightsimulator VR experience.

I feel like i'm sitting life inside that adorable 3D View Master !!

Since you're "all in" on VR for now, I have a few tips that I haven't read elsewhere for getting the most out of it.

Thank you, August ! I could not be *more* all in on VR right now indeed.

- I recommend the Shift-Z plugin at https://flightsim.to/file/16358/shift-z-stats for putting up a real-time frame rate counter while you refine your settings. Map a joystick button to bringing up the toolbar, then you can turn this on and off with your mouse while in VR. You can fiddle with graphics settings and see how many fps it costs you -- usually. Unfortunately some require you to restart the sim to take effect, making their impact harder to evaluate.

Actually i have been flying with an fps counter for a while already, August. It's an option that comes with the OpenXR Toolkit :



Actually not really intentional, just happend to be there all of a sudden. Floating in the air, not bad actually giving not only fps but also other performance stuff. In fact i have been extremely struggling with this awful OpenXR Toolkity menu floating about in the air and gone in 11 seconds...

I can't do anything with it because i can't get it to accept an option... The fps counter proves that it does work but i simply don't know how to activate an option, driving me crazy so i sat it aside for the moment.

- You may notice sometimes when you spawn in or switch to VR, your frame rates are much lower than you expect for the situation - like say, 10 fps when you were expecting 25-30. Often if you wait a minute or two, you will see this resolve itself as the sim gradually spools up to the expected frame rate. It sometimes seems to help to hit Esc and admire the menu options for a while to let the computer catch up with the load. Or, just take your time with the start-up and pre-flight checks.

Good tip, thanks ! Well, maybe this could also be the reason i found flying above Rome a total disaster while flying above other major cities a wonderful experience. Mind you, New York, Paris, London f.i. are something else of course. At the moment, with current settings, not that good really but i feel it will be better once i get my settings really in order. Only just beginning.. ;-)

- I seem to get the smoothest VR experience when I switch to VR before loading a flight, i.e. in the menus or world map, rather than after I spawn.

Certainly something i am looking into as well. Thanks !

- The eye position in VR often seems to me to be jammed too far forward against the instrument panel, and often too low. I think some guys try fiddling with the "world scale" because the cockpit looks too big to them, when they really just need to move their seat back. Map some eyepoint fore/aft and up/down controls to your controller or mouse.

Way ahead of you, Sir... First thing i did before fastening my seatbelt

Always been very important to me after we didn't have to fly with moving needles on a panel picture anymore...( you remember who gave us the first ever Virtual Cockpit in FS ??.....Bill Lyons ! Bless him ;-) I will always try to atleast see some of the nose of the aircraft i'm flying (usually no jetliners.. ) I feel extremely comfortable in the Tiggie cockpit. May turn out one of my most favourite aeroplanes to fly in VR.

For the moment i still use keys (in this case the Number Pad keys which i start to find better and better in the blind.. ;-), my old stick doesn't have anything i can use for that. Have various (hotas) throttles too but not using any of 'em right now. I'm looking for something new with lots of knobs/switches to use with VR.

- Take the trouble to learn the OpenXR Toolkit when you get a chance. Yes, the UI is horrible but the tweaks really help. MSFS requires more adjustments to look good in VR than any other game I use it with, and this unlocks a lot of them. The downscaling can really help with frame rates in intense environments. The post-processing is also very helpful because I find that MSFS in VR looks dark and muddy compared with on the screen (and compared with other sims in VR). Besides a better UI, I wish it could save presets so that you could switch quickly between performance friendly settings, say when you are at a detailed airport, and quality focused settings for when you are cruising the countryside and can afford some extra eye candy.

That's a great idea, August ! Maybe later, éh ?.... Atm i can't make heads or tails out of that OpenXR Toolkit menu. Still absolutely no clue how to activate an option. I told you about the fps counter that i found floating in the air for a while. No idea how i activated it but i do like it as far as i am still testing. It's gone now and like before, no idea how i got rid of it.... ;-)

If you have a good tip for me how to activate an option (make it turn to white) in that awkward OXR Toolkit menu i am all ears, August !

It looks like this is as far as the editor lets me answer your post, nothing in the editor window anymore..... luckily i save longer posts in notepad.. ;-)

The remaining to follow, August, thank you very much for your tips, highly appreciated !

[Javis]

Why? Its not a big problem. The question is your settings. What is important, its a one evening to set up it and after this you can forget about this tool. For me its obligatory and it gives extra sharpness.

I use Clrl+Alt+arrows for this tool:

Yessir, that's all fine. I have that too, active and all. But it's the OpenXR Toolkit Menu *Inside* MSFS VR that drives me crazy ! It annoyingly disappears after 11 seconds but one should be able to turn off that limiter by going into the 'Menu' of the Menu....(Grrrrrr...) but sofar i have not been able to get as far as that within 11 seconds, wearing a VR helmet while having to use the Ctrl/F1 to F4 keys on my invisible keyboard !!

It requires way more skill than was needed to play Manic Miner !! ( if you may remember that.... )

Say YoYo, i can only see that OXR Toolkit menu while wearing my VR headset and that's what makes it so difficult and annoying to use. I do however see pictures like this :



And this :



How do they do that ??.... It's not like thru some magical key combination we can view (and use!) that menu in 2D as well, right ??.... I certainly can't..... only in 3D wearing my Reverb G2... I tried to make a screenshot of it but the OXR Toolkit Menu in 3D doesn't want to appear on a screenshot..

How do *you* use it, YoYo ?... How do you * Turn On* any of the options ? (make them turn to white...)

Thanks much !

[YoYo]

My settings are here http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforum...=1#post1303915 .
In the last page yu can set up the time of this windows, set up for LONG option (1 minute). 11 sec. its enought to use 4 times arrow to the right and few down (to Menu timeout), its possible still. Right, the time for "default" is too short, but to skip to this page is 1-2 sec only and next 1-2 to change the time.

Btw. about how to use it - yes, you can use only OpenXR tool (settings) only in 3D screen. You have to use your VR right contoroller (this is the part for me when I use it only one time ;D) to show the menu (like on my pictures). So before use it you need to have VR on your head ; ). When you set it - "fire and forget ".

[K5083]

I have turned off the time-out altogether on OpenXR Toolkit and just exit manually. Of course it is absurd to have a UI so dependent on the keyboard, and awkward default keystrokes at that, on an app for exclusive use in VR. You can use the companion app to change to more easily groped-for keys, but I haven't bothered. Beyond that, you just have to get used to using up/down to switch between settings and left/right to cycle the values of each setting, which is archaic but familiar to me. I programmed menus similar to this in BASIC for my Commodore 64, except I used more sensible keystrokes and better formatting. It has no business being on a Windows box let alone in VR, but with some effort it still gets the job done. Although I don't open it often, I am still using it after 2 months of VR to refine my settings. I live in the NYC area and enjoy flying here, and it is a challenging area to get good looks and good performance even in 2D sometimes, so I'm never done tinkering with the VR settings here. I've now got it to where it is just borderline acceptable on both visuals and fps when flying around Manhattan. When taking off or landing at LGA, JFK or EWR I would switch to 2D.

Javis seems to have anticipated most of my suggestions but here's one that might be new, though possibly oversharing. This week I did something I never did in my life before, I trimmed my eyelashes. They were schmutzing up the lenses and I didn't like the sensation of them brushing against the lenses. I like to keep the lenses as close to my face as possible to reduce the peephole effect. It's much better now, and has even improved my vision in real life; I never realized how those things were getting in the way. I probably hacked a bit too aggressively but nobody has noticed the change in my appearance although at my age, I haven't been batting my eyes at the pretty young things around the office for quite some years.

August

[Javis]

My settings are here http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforum...=1#post1303915 .
In the last page yu can set up the time of this windows, set up for LONG option (1 minute). 11 sec. its enought to use 4 times arrow to the right and few down (to Menu timeout), its possible still. Right, the time for "default" is too short, but to skip to this page is 1-2 sec only and next 1-2 to change the time.

Thanks YoYo! Forgot about your post showing your OXR Tool settings. Very welcome for when i get *my* Menu stuff going !

Btw. about how to use it - yes, you can use only OpenXR tool (settings) only in 3D screen. You have to use your VR right contoroller (this is the part for me when I use it only one time ;D) to show the menu (like on my pictures). So before use it you need to have VR on your head ; ). When you set it - "fire and forget ".

New to me ! So you used your right VR controller to work with the Menu ?... When i have my headset going in MSFS i hit Ctrl/F1 and then the Menu pops up. Just sofar i didn't make it in time to get to 'the menu' at the right end, scroll down to 'None' (time out) and somehow activate that. Still a mystery to me ! I do have the controllers but not used them yet. I might give that a try now.

Thanks again !

[Javis]

I have turned off the time-out altogether on OpenXR Toolkit and just exit manually. Of course it is absurd to have a UI so dependent on the keyboard, and awkward default keystrokes at that, on an app for exclusive use in VR. You can use the companion app to change to more easily groped-for keys, but I haven't bothered. Beyond that, you just have to get used to using up/down to switch between settings and left/right to cycle the values of each setting, which is archaic but familiar to me.

Good idea, August, thanks ! Just changed the Shift/F keys to Left/Right/Up/Down. See where that'll get me. Like i said sofar never got to actually change anything in this OXR Tool Menu. Do i understand correctly that it is enough to *change* a setting where upon it will turn white and that's it ?.... No need to 'activate' it any further ? (like in the Companion App, change anything and that's it, no need to save like you normally would when you change anything....)

I programmed menus similar to this in BASIC for my Commodore 64, except I used more sensible keystrokes and better formatting. It has no business being on a Windows box let alone in VR, but with some effort it still gets the job done. Although I don't open it often, I am still using it after 2 months of VR to refine my settings. I live in the NYC area and enjoy flying here, and it is a challenging area to get good looks and good performance even in 2D sometimes, so I'm never done tinkering with the VR settings here. I've now got it to where it is just borderline acceptable on both visuals and fps when flying around Manhattan. When taking off or landing at LGA, JFK or EWR I would switch to 2D.

Oohh.... wouldn't that enormously break the immersion ?... ( i know it would, absolutely ! ) Not really investigated yet but i think my machine is not up to flying around NYC in VR.

It's kind of ironic, isn't it. *All* i wanted and always looking forward to flying around NYC with acceptable frame rate and smoothness. I still must laugh about my trials to get that going with the (amazing) Drzewiecki Design NYC scenery for FSX/P3D. No way in the virtual world ! A great slide show was all i got out of it (i suppose everybody else too...;-). FSX/P3D just couldn't handle a huge cityscape like that, couldn't it. Or you'd have to be happy with 10 to 15 fps average.

But here comes MSFS !! Finally then !! WOW!! Totally amazing flying over NYC for the first time in MSFS ! Waiting for that for about 30 years finally comes true ! ......

....... Only to ruin it again by start using VR.... Back to square one ! LOL

Well, surely and certainly i give up flying above NYC in VR gladly. I'll enjoy flying in VR above milder cityscape sceneries tremendously. If need be i'll wait another 30 years...Hehe..

Still, certainly not done investigating and testing settings and all that. Who knows i'll be able to squeeze more out of my system with a bit of luck. It's extremely amazing as it is anyway.

Javis seems to have anticipated most of my suggestions but here's one that might be new, though possibly oversharing. This week I did something I never did in my life before, I trimmed my eyelashes. They were schmutzing up the lenses and I didn't like the sensation of them brushing against the lenses. I like to keep the lenses as close to my face as possible to reduce the peephole effect. It's much better now, and has even improved my vision in real life; I never realized how those things were getting in the way. I probably hacked a bit too aggressively but nobody has noticed the change in my appearance although at my age, I haven't been batting my eyes at the pretty young things around the office for quite some years.

Wow!! You must've had some beautiful pretty loooong eyelashes then, August ! What we give up for flying in VR !

I am still figuring out how to get the most comfortable wearing my G2. I do not have beautiful looong eyelashes that's for sure so that's not the problem. The 'problem' is that normally i wear glasses, various glasses, for reading, driving, watching TV and my monitor. Wearing glasses with the G2 can be done but is less comfortable then without glasses. On top of that they could damage the G2 lenses. Looking into buying special prescription lenses for the G2. But also not really sure about needing my glasses for use with the G2. The difference in sharpness is quite small. Testing goes on...

[YoYo]

Thanks YoYo! Forgot about your post showing your OXR Tool settings. Very welcome for when i get *my* Menu stuff going !
New to me ! So you used your right VR controller to work with the Menu ?... When i have my headset going in MSFS i hit Ctrl/F1 and then the Menu pops up. Just sofar i didn't make it in time to get to 'the menu' at the right end, scroll down to 'None' (time out) and somehow activate that. Still a mystery to me ! I do have the controllers but not used them yet. I might give that a try now.

Thanks again !

Yes. Short press menu key (on controller, with 3 lines). You will see something like this (but foor WMR):



But in this situation you will see the button of menu OpenXR Tool, only in 3D, not on 2D.