Getting a full flight or more (>=8) to take off.
Results 1 to 25 of 25

Thread: Getting a full flight or more (>=8) to take off.

  1. #1
    SOH-CM-2022 mongoose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Navigator, where are we?
    Age
    77
    Posts
    3,237

    Getting a full flight or more (>=8) to take off.

    When one makes a mission with a full flight of 8, or more if one knows how, normally. for 2-4 engine aircraft, only 2 or maybe 3 of the flight actually take off from the runway, the rest are circling around above the airbase. Has anyone, I'm thinking ACC guys or Ted, thought if it's possible? I mean something similar to this https://www.398th.org/Images/Images_...sTaxiiing.html
    I know this is normally determined by the runway objects file. such as for ACC_Graveley_42a.xdp whichin this case is

    ?xml version="1.0"?>
    <UnitData>
    <General Allegience="" LongName="Test Standalone Airbase" ShortName="Airbase" ModelName="" BlastDamageScale="1.0" ImpactDamageScale="1.0" FireDamageScale="1.0" Priority="2" Type="static" EnteredService="01/01/1944" BlastDamageMod="0" ImpactDamageMod="0" FireDamageMod="0" AllowSpawn="n" Category="airbase" Country="neutral">
    </General>
    <Description String=""/>
    <Loadouts/>
    <GunStations/>
    <DamageBoxes/>
    <Systems/>
    <Airbase>
    <Runway Start="0 0 -1000" Stop="0 0 1000" Width="50" Turn="10000" SurfaceType="concrete"/>
    <Routes>
    <Route>
    <Point Position="100 0 -1000"/>
    <Point Position="0 0 -1000"/>
    </Route>
    <Route>
    <Point Position="100 0 -950"/>
    <Point Position="0 0 -950"/>
    </Route>
    <Route>
    <Point Position="100 0 -800"/>
    <Point Position="0 0 -800"/>
    </Route>
    <Route>
    <Point Position="100 0 -750"/>
    <Point Position="0 0 -750"/>
    </Route>
    </Routes>

    </Airbase>
    </UnitData>

    I forget the relevance of point positions as in

    <Point Position="100 0 -800"/>
    <Point Position="0 0 -800"/>
    and the relation with

    Runway Start="0 0 -1000" Stop="0 0 1000"

    So is it possible (for a non player ac) to start on a taxiway and take off on the runway?
    Last edited by mongoose; August 12th, 2022 at 14:37.

    Cato said "Carthaginem esse delendam"
    I say "Carthago iam diu deleta,sed enim Bellum Alium adhuc aedificandum est"

  2. #2
    I don't know, but I'd love to know the answer!

  3. #3
    I'm sure it's known that if you add more point positions , you will get more of your
    Flight on the runway. Not sure you can get them to go from taxi area to runway.

  4. #4
    SOH-CM-2022 mongoose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Navigator, where are we?
    Age
    77
    Posts
    3,237
    I guess that I will have to dig up the old ACC document on making airbases and some correspondence with Joost to work out more exactly how to squeeze up more aircraft on the runway, maybe a bit behind it even.

    Cato said "Carthaginem esse delendam"
    I say "Carthago iam diu deleta,sed enim Bellum Alium adhuc aedificandum est"

  5. #5
    if all you trying to do is add more aircraft to runway then all you need to do is add more point positions . I am sure this is known.

  6. #6
    SOH-CM-2020
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Aotearoa, New Zealand
    Age
    61
    Posts
    2,836
    And it helps to increase the width parameter so you can step the points across the runway diagonally say three wide. Currently the width is set to 50. IIRC in some MAW airfields the whole flight lines up across the airbase at the start and the width is set much wider.

  7. #7
    James have you tried placing your plane last to take off in your group. Seems to me that in the missions I did that have rallying I placed my plane last in the group. I must admit it been so long since involved that my memory may be incorrect.
    Game Rig(Nalu): AMD 4800+ 64x2, Asus A8N-SLI Premium, Silverstone 560W, 1Gx4 Corsair Twin2048, 2x Asus EN7900GTX SLI, 4xWD 74G 10Krpm Sata II RAID0, Audigy 4, Trackir4, ch pedals & yoke, db XPPro x64/Vista
    HTPC(BossHog): Intel P3.0GHz Prescott E, Asus P4P800-E Deluxe, Toughpower 700W, 1Gx2 Samsung DDR, AOpen 6600GT AGP, 2x80G IDESeagate Cavier RAID1, HighPoint Rocket Raid 2220, 6x 400G Sata Seagate Baracuda Raid5, 2x500g Seagate JBOD, XP Media Center 2005

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by rbp71854 View Post
    James have you tried placing your plane last to take off in your group. Seems to me that in the missions I did that have rallying I placed my plane last in the group. I must admit it been so long since involved that my memory may be incorrect.
    Just a follow-up. Those missions with "racetrack" in the description would be ones that had multiple planes taking off. They are also the ones with the bomber that shoots a flare for the group to rally to. Hope this helps
    Game Rig(Nalu): AMD 4800+ 64x2, Asus A8N-SLI Premium, Silverstone 560W, 1Gx4 Corsair Twin2048, 2x Asus EN7900GTX SLI, 4xWD 74G 10Krpm Sata II RAID0, Audigy 4, Trackir4, ch pedals & yoke, db XPPro x64/Vista
    HTPC(BossHog): Intel P3.0GHz Prescott E, Asus P4P800-E Deluxe, Toughpower 700W, 1Gx2 Samsung DDR, AOpen 6600GT AGP, 2x80G IDESeagate Cavier RAID1, HighPoint Rocket Raid 2220, 6x 400G Sata Seagate Baracuda Raid5, 2x500g Seagate JBOD, XP Media Center 2005

  9. #9
    SOH-CM-2022 mongoose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Navigator, where are we?
    Age
    77
    Posts
    3,237
    Thanks for that. I will check it out. Is 'racetrack' in the missions or airbase facility?

    Cato said "Carthaginem esse delendam"
    I say "Carthago iam diu deleta,sed enim Bellum Alium adhuc aedificandum est"

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by mongoose View Post
    Thanks for that. I will check it out. Is 'racetrack' in the missions or airbase facility?

    Its in the mission, Racetrack implies how the big flights of US bombers rallied after taking off circulatiing in a racetrack pattern waiting for the whole group to get airborne and in formation.
    Game Rig(Nalu): AMD 4800+ 64x2, Asus A8N-SLI Premium, Silverstone 560W, 1Gx4 Corsair Twin2048, 2x Asus EN7900GTX SLI, 4xWD 74G 10Krpm Sata II RAID0, Audigy 4, Trackir4, ch pedals & yoke, db XPPro x64/Vista
    HTPC(BossHog): Intel P3.0GHz Prescott E, Asus P4P800-E Deluxe, Toughpower 700W, 1Gx2 Samsung DDR, AOpen 6600GT AGP, 2x80G IDESeagate Cavier RAID1, HighPoint Rocket Raid 2220, 6x 400G Sata Seagate Baracuda Raid5, 2x500g Seagate JBOD, XP Media Center 2005

  11. #11
    SOH-CM-2022 mongoose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Navigator, where are we?
    Age
    77
    Posts
    3,237
    OK I'll check that. Meanwhile, in this

    <Route>
    <Point Position="100 0 780"/>
    <Point Position="0 0 -780"/>
    </Route>

    The figures in red and green; what are they? The reason that I ask, is that I am thinking of staggering the take offs to the left and right of the runway centre line, but closer than 50m down the runway, say 35, which means that I may safely put more ac on the runway.

    I assume where the player starts depends on its ( in mission) position in the flight, normally first but I assume it can be placed last by hand editing the missions xml?

    Cato said "Carthaginem esse delendam"
    I say "Carthago iam diu deleta,sed enim Bellum Alium adhuc aedificandum est"

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by mongoose View Post
    OK I'll check that. Meanwhile, in this


    I assume where the player starts depends on its ( in mission) position in the flight, normally first but I assume it can be placed last by hand editing the missions xml?
    Yes you manually edit the mission in xml to place the player in the last position of the flight.
    Game Rig(Nalu): AMD 4800+ 64x2, Asus A8N-SLI Premium, Silverstone 560W, 1Gx4 Corsair Twin2048, 2x Asus EN7900GTX SLI, 4xWD 74G 10Krpm Sata II RAID0, Audigy 4, Trackir4, ch pedals & yoke, db XPPro x64/Vista
    HTPC(BossHog): Intel P3.0GHz Prescott E, Asus P4P800-E Deluxe, Toughpower 700W, 1Gx2 Samsung DDR, AOpen 6600GT AGP, 2x80G IDESeagate Cavier RAID1, HighPoint Rocket Raid 2220, 6x 400G Sata Seagate Baracuda Raid5, 2x500g Seagate JBOD, XP Media Center 2005

  13. #13
    SOH-CM-2022 mongoose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Navigator, where are we?
    Age
    77
    Posts
    3,237
    Quote Originally Posted by rbp71854 View Post
    Its in the mission, Racetrack implies how the big flights of US bombers rallied after taking off circulatiing in a racetrack pattern waiting for the whole group to get airborne and in formation.
    I used Notepad++ to search for 'racetrack' through all my many installs without getting a hit. Do you know what missions or install(s) that might have featured?

    Cato said "Carthaginem esse delendam"
    I say "Carthago iam diu deleta,sed enim Bellum Alium adhuc aedificandum est"

  14. #14
    James its been so long and I no longer have any cfs3 files I just cant help with that question. Sorry
    Game Rig(Nalu): AMD 4800+ 64x2, Asus A8N-SLI Premium, Silverstone 560W, 1Gx4 Corsair Twin2048, 2x Asus EN7900GTX SLI, 4xWD 74G 10Krpm Sata II RAID0, Audigy 4, Trackir4, ch pedals & yoke, db XPPro x64/Vista
    HTPC(BossHog): Intel P3.0GHz Prescott E, Asus P4P800-E Deluxe, Toughpower 700W, 1Gx2 Samsung DDR, AOpen 6600GT AGP, 2x80G IDESeagate Cavier RAID1, HighPoint Rocket Raid 2220, 6x 400G Sata Seagate Baracuda Raid5, 2x500g Seagate JBOD, XP Media Center 2005

  15. #15
    SOH-CM-2022 mongoose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Navigator, where are we?
    Age
    77
    Posts
    3,237
    Ok that's understandable!

    <Meanwhile does anyone know what the red and green below mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by mongoose View Post
    OK I'll check that. Meanwhile, in this

    <Route>
    <Point Position="100 0 780"/>
    <Point Position="0 0 -780"/>
    </Route>

    The figures in red and green; what are they? The reason that I ask, is that I am thinking of staggering the take offs to the left and right of the runway centre line, but closer than 50m down the runway, say 35, which means that I may safely put more ac on the runway.

    Cato said "Carthaginem esse delendam"
    I say "Carthago iam diu deleta,sed enim Bellum Alium adhuc aedificandum est"

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by mongoose View Post
    Ok that's understandable!

    <Meanwhile does anyone know what the red and green below mean?
    James, do you still have this document I sent you about 2 years ago? It explains most entries in the runway definitions file and what you can alter to customize your runways:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Chapter 3 - Creating a CFS3 runway file in xml.pdf 
Views:	10 
Size:	953.8 KB 
ID:	88172

    (And no, I don't know what the Y-value is for... )

    ACC Member, ETO and PTO contributor & librarian

  17. #17
    SOH-CM-2022 mongoose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Navigator, where are we?
    Age
    77
    Posts
    3,237
    Many thanks Joost. Yes I do have that somewhere so that is a great help and it's the player order, z distances, and x values which I will now play around with. I wonder if y starts one in the air or underground?

    Cato said "Carthaginem esse delendam"
    I say "Carthago iam diu deleta,sed enim Bellum Alium adhuc aedificandum est"

  18. #18
    SOH-CM-2020
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Aotearoa, New Zealand
    Age
    61
    Posts
    2,836
    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty View Post
    James, do you still have this document I sent you about 2 years ago? It explains most entries in the runway definitions file and what you can alter to customize your runways:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Chapter 3 - Creating a CFS3 runway file in xml.pdf 
Views:	10 
Size:	953.8 KB 
ID:	88172

    (And no, I don't know what the Y-value is for... )
    That's a very handy refresher thanks Frosty. Just one thing it says the player's formation is never more than six aircraft. In a campaign flight, with good reserves, the player flies with seven wingmen making up a formation of eight aircraft.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Daiwilletti View Post
    That's a very handy refresher thanks Frosty. Just one thing it says the player's formation is never more than six aircraft. In a campaign flight, with good reserves, the player flies with seven wingmen making up a formation of eight aircraft.
    Thanks - didn't know that!! (I never do campaigns, too busy modeling ) I'll change that in the document!

    ACC Member, ETO and PTO contributor & librarian

  20. #20
    SOH-CM-2022 mongoose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Navigator, where are we?
    Age
    77
    Posts
    3,237
    AFAIK there can be 8/flight,
    <AirFormation ID="6058" Directive="strike" Country="Britain" Skill="3" Payload="7" FormType="trail" OffsetScaleFactor="30">
    <Unit ID="10582" Type="well_r-aa" IsPlayer="y" Skill="3" Payload="7"/>
    <Unit ID="10583" Type="well_r-aa" Skill="2" Payload="7"/>
    <Unit ID="10584" Type="well_r-aa" Skill="2" Payload="7"/>
    <Unit ID="10585" Type="well_r-aa" Skill="2" Payload="7"/>
    <Unit ID="10586" Type="well_r-aa" Skill="2" Payload="8"/>
    <Unit ID="10587" Type="well_r-aa" Skill="2" Payload="8"/>
    <Unit ID="10588" Type="well_r-aa" Skill="2" Payload="3"/>
    <Unit ID="10589" Type="well_r-aa" Skill="2" Payload="3"/>

    or if hand edited in a mission, more!

    <Unit ID="10183" Type="tow_stirling_mki" IsPlayer="y" Skill="2" Payload="5"/>
    <Unit ID="10184" Type="tow_stirling_mki" Skill="2" Payload="5"/>
    <Unit ID="10185" Type="tow_stirling_mki" Skill="2" Payload="5"/>
    <Unit ID="10186" Type="tow_stirling_mki" Skill="2" Payload="5"/>
    <Unit ID="10187" Type="tow_stirling_mki" Skill="2" Payload="5"/>
    <Unit ID="10188" Type="tow_stirling_mki" Skill="2" Payload="5"/>
    <Unit ID="10189" Type="tow_stirling_mki" Skill="2" Payload="5"/>
    <Unit ID="10190" Type="tow_stirling_mki" Skill="2" Payload="5"/>
    <Unit ID="10191" Type="tow_stirling_mki" Skill="2" Payload="5"/>
    <Unit ID="10192" Type="tow_stirling_mki" Skill="2" Payload="5"/>
    <Unit ID="10193" Type="tow_stirling_mki" Skill="2" Payload="5"/>
    <Unit ID="10194" Type="tow_stirling_mki" Skill="2" Payload="5"/>

    Cato said "Carthaginem esse delendam"
    I say "Carthago iam diu deleta,sed enim Bellum Alium adhuc aedificandum est"

  21. #21
    Also, more than one flight can take off from the same runway, as long as there are enough routes defined. For example, if your runway has 16 spots, two full flights of 8 can start from it at the start of a mission.

  22. #22
    SOH-CM-2022 mongoose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Navigator, where are we?
    Age
    77
    Posts
    3,237
    Quote Originally Posted by gecko View Post
    Also, more than one flight can take off from the same runway, as long as there are enough routes defined. For example, if your runway has 16 spots, two full flights of 8 can start from it at the start of a mission.
    So, for instance, with bombers, with 'x' spacing and smaller 'z' values, I might be able to get a full flight of 6 or 8 off, or 2 flights of 6. How would 2 flights be defined in the objects file, or would they effectively behave as 1 big flight?

    In any case, I am thinking of making and naming new Object runway files just for bombers.

    Cato said "Carthaginem esse delendam"
    I say "Carthago iam diu deleta,sed enim Bellum Alium adhuc aedificandum est"

  23. #23
    If multiple flights are set to take off from the airbase, CFS3 will put as many aircraft on the runway as there are routes. I'm not sure how it determines which flight takes the first spots, etc, but they will all take off together and then form into their separate flights.

  24. #24
    SOH-CM-2022 mongoose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Navigator, where are we?
    Age
    77
    Posts
    3,237
    Well I am experimenting with all the info that I have got here, and it's not as simple as implied, at least with bombers. I will post later what's been happening with ACC_Graveley_42a and TOW_airbase2000_bomber, which are in fact basically the same. An interesting feature though is that, in a flight of 4, the -950 ac can be missing and already in the air.
    More later as my son in town so real life stuff!

    Cato said "Carthaginem esse delendam"
    I say "Carthago iam diu deleta,sed enim Bellum Alium adhuc aedificandum est"

  25. #25
    SOH-CM-2020
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Aotearoa, New Zealand
    Age
    61
    Posts
    2,836
    Quote Originally Posted by mongoose View Post
    ... An interesting feature though is that, in a flight of 4, the -950 ac can be missing and already in the air.
    More later as my son in town so real life stuff!
    I get a few aircraft in the air for spawns where there are more aircraft than takeoff points in the runway objects file. For a sweep spawn with 6 fighters set to takeoff, two will appear above the runway while four occupy the standard takeoff points. In my BoB campaign, a larger flight of 8 or so Hurricanes will all spawn in the air above the airfield.

    Here are the takeoff positions for aairbase1600.xdp. Probably one of Charlies. Note width=200, surface is concrete.

    "<Airbase>
    <Runway Start="0 0 -800" Stop="0 0 800" Width="200" Turn="10000" SurfaceType="concrete"/>
    <Routes>
    <Route>
    <Point Position="100 0 -800"/>
    <Point Position="0 0 -800"/>
    </Route>
    <Route>
    <Point Position="100 0 -750"/>
    <Point Position="0 0 -750"/>
    </Route>
    <Route>
    <Point Position="100 0 -700"/>
    <Point Position="0 0 -700"/>
    </Route>
    <Route>
    <Point Position="100 0 -650"/>
    <Point Position="0 0 -700"/>
    </Route>
    <Route>
    <Point Position="100 0 -800"/>
    <Point Position="50 0 -800"/>
    </Route>
    <Route>
    <Point Position="100 0 -750"/>
    <Point Position="50 00 -750"/>
    </Route>
    <Route>
    <Point Position="100 0 -700"/>
    <Point Position="50 0 -700"/>
    </Route>
    <Route>
    <Point Position="100 0 -650"/>
    <Point Position="50 0 -650"/>
    </Route>
    <Route>
    <Point Position="100 0 -800"/>
    <Point Position="-100 0 -800"/>
    </Route>
    <Route>
    <Point Position="100 0 -750"/>
    <Point Position="-100 00 -750"/>
    </Route>
    <Route>
    <Point Position="100 0 -700"/>
    <Point Position="-100 0 -700"/>
    </Route>
    <Route>
    <Point Position="100 0 -650"/>
    <Point Position="-100 0 -650"/>
    </Route>
    </Routes>
    </Airbase>"

Members who have read this thread: 40

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •