AH P-51D Take off handling

[collensr]

Hi All

I have been struggling tonight with the Aeroplane Heaven Mustang - with the recommended trim settings and locked tail wheel up to 100kts as soon as the aircraft becomes airborne it does a violent roll over to the left.

Anyone had this happen before?

I downloaded a fresh copy of the aircraft but same behaviour.

Cheers

[BananaBob]

I can't take off with it while my settings allow crash damage because it shoots off to the left horribly no matter what, even with full rudder. I had no problem landing it though.

[Fnerg]

I had this problem too, but then I tamed her. Start with 2 degrees of nose down trim. Hold your stick back to keep the tail down ( which locks the tailwheel), if you look forward down the center line of the antiglare, place the end of that line on a cloud, and keep it there as you throttle/move forward, easing on the back pressure as you accelerate ever so slightly. Give the plane time to get up to speed without pushing to hard. Gradual speed, and surprise, she lifts off super smooth. As you gradually bring the stick to center, continue to trim down to keep the nose just above the horizon. Hope this helps. I think the left pull is from the torque just as the tail is ready to lift. To me that meant, too much throttle too fast. Gradual advancement worked best. She's a wild one!

[collensr]

I had this problem too, but then I tamed her. Start with 2 degrees of nose down trim. Hold your stick back to keep the tail down ( which locks the tailwheel), if you look forward down the center line of the antiglare, place the end of that line on a cloud, and keep it there as you throttle/move forward, easing on the back pressure as you accelerate ever so slightly. Give the plane time to get up to speed without pushing to hard. Gradual speed, and surprise, she lifts off super smooth. As you gradually bring the stick to center, continue to trim down to keep the nose just above the horizon. Hope this helps. I think the left pull is from the torque just as the tail is ready to lift. To me that meant, too much throttle too fast. Gradual advancement worked best. She's a wild one!

Many thanks for this - I will try out tonight !

[bazzar]

Also, watch your MP. You don't need full power to take off. 40 -45 is ample.

[BananaBob]

Well, that may be my problem, flooring for take off, LOL.

[Tom Clayton]

Well, that may be my problem, flooring for take off, LOL.

That's a bit like turning off the traction control on a Ferrari Enzo, then sidestepping the clutch while standing on the gas!

[Radioman123]

That's a bit like turning off the traction control on a Ferrari Enzo, then sidestepping the clutch while standing on the gas!

Yep, the POH indicates at MAX Takeoff Manifold Pressure of 61 inches, MAX Takeoff RPM of 3000 RPM and several degrees of right rudder trim. Note: I like about 50 to 55 inches MP. Locking the tail wheel is critical for takeoff. BTW, in real life you would not get close to flying P-51 until you could demonstrate all of these skills in a T-6 as you need a P-51 type rating. In the warbird community sometimes a newbee buys a P-51D and breaks it on takeoff or landing by not paying attention to fundamentals. The flight model in this simulation seems to be very accurate.

From P-51D POH:

[bazzar]

61 inches is indeed MAX. 40 -45 is fine. That's from an article on flying the P51, written by a display pilot.

[BananaBob]

That's a bit like turning off the traction control on a Ferrari Enzo, then sidestepping the clutch while standing on the gas!

[BendyFlyer]

61 inches is indeed MAX. 40 -45 is fine. That's from an article on flying the P51, written by a display pilot.

CORRECT

Here read this article by a modern F16 pilot being given a shot at the P51 just for the perspective - https://www.flyingmag.com/aircrafts-...-p-51-mustang/

Now I am not sure how your going to manage this in MSFS at the moment - but the blokes who flew these came to the P51 after over 65 hours in something mundane like the Tiger Moth or Cub variant- low powered TAIL DRAGGERS then onto the Harvard or Texan now you into about another 50-60 hours of a 450 HP tail dragger. Tricyle undercarriages were an unknown just about everything was a tail dragger. Even the smallest most lightly powered tail dragger can bite you and bite hard! (SWING and Ground LOOP). Helical slipstream from the prop and the stability arrangements guarantee such behaviour. A P51 basically had 2000 HP trying to roll the aeroplane left and around that prop!

TIP - see if you can master something small and light as a TAIL DRAGGER first - then even in the P51 - SLOW and SMOOTH with the throttle - you need to use your feet or your hands (MORE - RIGHT RUDDER) and all you need to do is learn to coordinate all that - you will be right! FULL POWER on these was a combat rating - 40-45" is more than adequate to get you off and going and apply it slowly and smoothly- you have plenty of space and time, these birds accelerate quickly- even try starting the take off and killing the power and bringing it to a stop so you will have to reverse all the inputs the other way smoothly and gently.

It all gives meaning to the words 'HAND FLYING".

[BananaBob]

That did it, I held the stick back and once it started to get some lift, I popped the rear up gradually and took off at around 45" manifold pressure. Before I was trying to get the rear up as quick as possible, now it's quite a joy to fly. Thanks for all the tips.

1250410_20220215021809_81 by Robert Rivera, on Flickr

[K5083]

40-45" is especially fine when your P-51 is equipped with a 4,900 hp engine like the AH one. No, that's not a typo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S39q6nWIPn4

For a more challenging experience, try it with EchoMikeDelta's corrected flight model. https://flightsim.to/file/27898/alte...e-heaven-p-51d

August

[collensr]

40-45" is especially fine when your P-51 is equipped with a 4,900 hp engine like the AH one. No, that's not a typo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S39q6nWIPn4

For a more challenging experience, try it with EchoMikeDelta's corrected flight model. https://flightsim.to/file/27898/alte...e-heaven-p-51d

August

I am challenged enough !! They are selling tickets watching me trying to get this thing safely off the tarmac...

[pilto von pilto]

40-45" is especially fine when your P-51 is equipped with a 4,900 hp engine like the AH one. No, that's not a typo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S39q6nWIPn4

For a more challenging experience, try it with EchoMikeDelta's corrected flight model. https://flightsim.to/file/27898/alte...e-heaven-p-51d

August

Putting it simply. If we were to really make the p51 with full figures etc... a lot of people wouldnt be able to take off let alone control it in flight and where is the fun in that ? Remember fellas this is a game. Compromises need to be made for fly-ability and to take in the larger cross section of the community. We presented a P-51 that we are happy with and we feel that the majority of end users have enough challenge to make it fun without making it frustrating. If you want to make it harder... thats the beauty of not making it a store exclusive , people can make more challenging flight models.

[keithb77]

Having succesfully taken off ... you need to get down again!
In the set of Warbird Landing challenges that I've posted to https://flightsim.to/d/keithb77/warb...ing-challenges is one for landing the AH Mustang at Duxford.
You will get rated for landing precision and smoothness...

[Stickshaker]

Putting it simply. If we were to really make the p51 with full figures etc... a lot of people wouldnt be able to take off let alone control it in flight and where is the fun in that ? Remember fellas this is a game. Compromises need to be made for fly-ability and to take in the larger cross section of the community. We presented a P-51 that we are happy with and we feel that the majority of end users have enough challenge to make it fun without making it frustrating. If you want to make it harder... thats the beauty of not making it a store exclusive , people can make more challenging flight models.

I cannot say anything for take-offs but I made two landings in a real P-51D and it was very doable (I had about 150 hours in ultralights and some time in, for example, a Tiger Moth, so perhaps that helps). The 'real' pilot sitting in the front seat did not let me do the take-offs, so I guess Pilto is right. Bot it does not take a Superman to fly the Mustang.

[udidwht]

Anyone know of an 'Old Yellow" repaint for the newer MSFS P-51? Sure would be nice.

[joetrill]

No sorry I don’t. But you should regularly check on flight sim.to or submit a request for one.

[Sundog]

One of the biggest problems previous flightsims have had is they didn't simulate the higher dynamic pressure of the propstream across the tails. There were coefficients for it if you could find them, but few used them. Here's some good info. https://youtu.be/P2GKtc0D_3A