Mach Loop

[Javis]

Gentlemen, can we possibly talk about the 'Mach Loop' here for a bit ?..

With all these exiting native MSFS jetfighters becoming available now in rapid tempo i thought it's time to get familiar with the so called 'Mach Loop' that runs through the beautiful Wales countryside. I mean, what's more exiting than flying a jetfighter thru valley's at treetop height compared to just flying it from A to B at FL400, right ?

Not only trying this for the first time ( i mean flying the actual route, not just 'all over the place' at my own discretion) it has also been a long time since i learned to use a GPS system. I have more or less always been from the ' Strictly VOR to VOR' department.

However, how would you learn to fly the Mach Loop other than via GPS' waypoints, right ? I am using the Mach Loop flightplan from the 'blackwaterskies-bush-machloop_mslf1.zip'. The default plane is the TBM which i am not familiar with so i thought i'd use just the flight plan and Cirrus SR22 to try and learn the route.

The first serious hurdle i come across is to try and follow the waypoints that are so close to eachother in this case. In order to see them you have to have the GPS screen very much up close. Very dangerous and not that much fun neither. So far i've learned that i can use the waypoint signs that are displayed outside as well. A good step into the right direction. Particularly in sharp turns however these wp signs can easily hide behind the scenery/hills.

In any case, i believe some of you actually fly this Mach Loop in MSFS, right ? How exactly do you do that ? And, how exactly do RW pilots do that ? Do they use GPS ? Is it even possible to fly it correctly in MSFS ?

I mean, look at this waypoint mess in my GPS screen :



F.i WP19 is between a second WP16 and WP21... Sometimes the connecting white line disappears all together. Like this it's no fun in the SR22 let alone in a F-14....

Could someone here who indeed flies this Mach Loop in MSFS please give a dillitant rookie some tips and information on how exactly to 'get into the groove' here, please ??...

Will be most appreciated, thanks a lot !

[mgr]

Hi Jan,

Gentlemen, can we possibly talk about the 'Mach Loop' here for a bit ?..
And, how exactly do RW pilots do that ? Do they use GPS ? Is it even possible to fly it correctly in MSFS ?

My best estimate is that real-life they do it by visual rules and so looking out of the canopy and on a chart on there knee.

For inSim, i would suggest to zoom in a bit on the map, myselve use/cheat the PMS GTN750 (https://pms50.com/msfs/) for navigating, very handy under the "CTRL-S" key, like looking down on your knee. ;-)

Marcel

PS
Think the flightplan you show has too much waypoints, sometimes 3 for a corner, best would be to have only one for the turningpoint. For example 13,14,15, should only have 14.

[Javis]

Hi Jan,

My best estimate is that real-life they do it by visual rules and so looking out of the canopy and on a chart on there knee.

Thanks Marcel!

Could it be that it is always flown with a 2 man crew aircraft ? Pilot flying, Rio telling him left/right like they do with car rally ? Seems to me the most sensible thing to do..

For inSim, i would suggest to zoom in a bit on the map, myselve use/cheat the PMS GTN750 (https://pms50.com/msfs/) for navigating, very handy under the "CTRL-S" key, like looking down on your knee. ;-)

Tried zooming in but keeping an eye outside and messing about with the GPS at the same time goes wrong all the time. Maybe i could learn.... ;-) I'll try that GTN750. Thanks!

PS Think the flightplan you show has too much waypoints, sometimes 3 for a corner, best would be to have only one for the turningpoint. For example 13,14,15, should only have 14.

Not sure but can i alter an existing flightplan in MSFS ? That would possibly help a lot.

Do you actually fly that Mach Loop in MSFS, Marcel ?

Thanks a lot!

[DaveWG]

There's a great video on YouTube with a real life Hawk pilot flying the Just Flight Hawk through them loop. He explains it as he goes though, what to look for, where to turn etc. Very helpful.
Can't find the link at the moment, on my phone!

[mgr]

Hi Jan,

>> Could it be that it is always flown with a 2 man crew aircraft ? Pilot flying, Rio telling him left/right like they do with car rally ? Seems to me the most sensible thing to do..

They probably do, yet also single seaters do the loop (F-16, F-35).

>>Tried zooming in but keeping an eye outside and messing about with the GPS at the same time goes wrong all the time. Maybe i could learn.... ;-)
>>Not sure but can i alter an existing flightplan in MSFS ? That would possibly help a lot.

Easiest way is to install the GNT750 (then you have a pop-up, like the VFR-map, via CTRL-S), in there you can modify your flightplan. Much easier than in a GTN1000.

>> Do you actually fly that Mach Loop in MSFS, Marcel ?

No yet, did however did it several times in FSX, yet like you i had troubles getting into the right valley/ies. ;-)

@DaveWG -> This one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTxxXv9XhbM

[DaveWG]

Yes, that's the one thanks.

[Dimus]

Here's my take in the F-18 from EGOV. We flew this with 4 other buddies two weeks ago:

[erican2]

I like this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kT7qrYi8R_M

[Javis]

Thanks Marcel and Dave !

That Hawk video is both exhilarating and discouraging at the same time !

Fantastic nontheless ! That's what i have in mind but i presume will stay in mind only for the time being. He made a flightplan but doesn't use it as such, he just knows the route by heart, doesn't he. Looking at the scenery it also seems quite a different route compared to what i'm seeing during my sofar miserable trials ( much nicer, must be Orbx Caernarfon then..). Also my route doesn't start at RAF Valley but at EGCK Caernarfon.

In any case, seems i have to do more investigation and download and install some more stuff to possibly make it a bit easier to get into. Btw, saw another MSFS Mach Loop video too, with the Goshawk, no comments but some awesome fly-by sequences included. That's one of my biggest MSFS gripes, no Fly-By View yet ( if we can believe the MSFS Dev Updates possibly Q1 2022. Can't wait! I need that desperately ! )

https://youtu.be/yODp1R-jXqo

Thanks again, guys! I think i'm a bit more confident now about maybe pulling this off more or less...

[Javis]

Here's my take in the F-18 from EGOV. We flew this with 4 other buddies two weeks ago:

Holy Moly! That's just awesome, Dimus !

Congrats!

Surely this must not be your first go... How did you learn the Loop ? Did you use a slow plane and a flightplan ?..

Thanks very much for showing us it can deffinately be done ! (the sun reflecting off the HUD at times could literaly be a deal breaker, couldn't it ?...)

[Javis]

I like this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kT7qrYi8R_M

Amazing, Erican, Thanks !

[keithb77]

Basically you just keep turning left (the loop is always flown anti-clockwise) following the major roads.
The trickiest part is taking the correct left turn to go North to complete the loop.

I do it in the F104 a lot (last time I met an F18 coming the other way, whoops) with a flight plan that just takes me to the entry, there isn't time to look at any NAV during the loop itself.

[Dimus]

Holy Moly! That's just awesome, Dimus !

Congrats!

Surely this must not be your first go... How did you learn the Loop ? Did you use a slow plane and a flightplan ?..

Thanks very much for showing us it can deffinately be done ! (the sun reflecting off the HUD at times could literaly be a deal breaker, couldn't it ?...)

I have watched a few videos on youtube with RAF Typhoons and first did it in P3D with ORBX Wales. I have made a rough flightplanThe Mach Loop.pln This is doing two rounds of the loop and on the second round leaves the area to go back to EGOV.

Basically it is visual and roughly goes like this: Take off from EGOV, fly down the coast south and turn left on the second estuary. Then find the river and follow it east and then north east leaving the hills to your left. The river will be joined by a road which can be your path to follow. When spotting two deep valleys to your left make a sharp turn into the first one. The road will still be below you and you can keep following it with a series of turns until you see the long lake. Just before the lake, sharp turn to the left and into the uphill valley will lead you the the exit point marked by two wind turbines. You will then be back on the river estuary and you can start again by turning left.

Hope this helps, it is indeed great fun if you master it.

[Dimus]

I like this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kT7qrYi8R_M

Yep! That's the one I mainly used to find the way.

[Twice43]

I flew it when the Flying Iron Spitfire was released & I don't know if the scenery placement of dwellings was accurate, but I was surprised at how many farm houses, cottages & so on, were on the flight path.
Is that the case in real life & are the inhabitants deaf, or just used to the noise?
IRL are there calendar & time restrictions as to when The Loop can be flown?
T43

[DC1973]

I made this video a while back, but it's accurate to the Mach Loop route, as is the airspeed used through the low-level area:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiDYLIF-0Eg&t=114s

[SkippyBing]

Have flown it once in real life in a Jetstream, purely clock-map-ground although it's pretty hard to get lost.
Broadly fly at a constant speed, we were doing 180kts so three miles a minute. You have minute marks on the map plus expected times at obvious visual fixes. Pre turn you do your TATFIR* including when you next plan on picking up the map to check where you are. Post turn confirm you're on the right track and then just before you expect to be at the next fix check the map to confirm what the obvious thing you were expecting to see is and then start looking for it. Note if you're early/late and adjust timings accordingly. Put map down.
Single or twin seat it's broadly the same as the rear seat has more important things to do than constantly read the map.

*Track, Altitude you plan to fly at and Safety Altitude, Time for the leg and reset the clock, Fuel, Instruments, Radio including if you plan to change frequency on the leg.

[Tom Clayton]

Does anyone have a link to the Blackwaterskies file? I don't trust the only link that Google can find.

[Javis]

Here you go : https://nl.flightsim.to/file/5309/ca...-the-mach-loop

[ryanbatc]

This is a very well done MSFS tutorial video flown by a real Hawk pilot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTxxXv9XhbM&t=2s

[Javis]

I have watched a few videos on youtube with RAF Typhoons and first did it in P3D with ORBX Wales. I have made a rough flightplanThe Mach Loop.pln This is doing two rounds of the loop and on the second round leaves the area to go back to EGOV.
Hope this helps, it is indeed great fun if you master it.

Sure does help, Dimus, thanks very much ! First time i was able to atleast finish the loop more or less (afraid with the other flightplan i've been flying it the wrong way around..). Your plan is much clearer although i did get lost a couple times. The waypoints do have odd numbers here and there but i just follow the little triangles. (no connecting line neither, no time found to install and try the GNT750) I'll be doing this for a couple of hours with the plan on the GPS (with the sun in the back the prop anim of the SR22 takes all the fun out of it.. ) and then try visual only with maybe a bit faster plane.

Really feel i'm getting the hang of it now although still more or less.Hehe, Thanks a lot again, Dimus !

[Javis]

This is a very well done MSFS tutorial video flown by a real Hawk pilot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTxxXv9XhbM&t=2s

See post #5 by Marcel, Ryan.... ;-)

This video is utterly fantastic so no prob having it advertised twice.

[Javis]

I made this video a while back, but it's accurate to the Mach Loop route, as is the airspeed used through the low-level area:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiDYLIF-0Eg&t=114s

Fantastic, Dean !

Good thing for me is that it's starting to look pretty familiar now. Found my Waterloo there at 'the Fork', didn't know which way to turn..

I know better now.

Thanks again, Dean, hope to Loop your Tomcat around there someday ! Love it!

[Javis]

Is that the case in real life & are the inhabitants deaf, or just used to the noise?

Looks like they love it ! : https://youtu.be/Lsfg8ug2egk

IRL are there calendar & time restrictions as to when The Loop can be flown?

I've read somewhere that there's atleast one important ristriction: the weather !

[strykerpsg]

Another great topic I yearned to see. Thank you for posting this.