SC Designs F-16 C, D and I Fighting Falcon

[jmig]

Warning long:

I see the extreme DCS crowd to be not much different than the extreme PMDG crowd. For the most part neither have had the opportunity to fly the real airplane. That last statement is not critical it is only stating an observation. Very few aviation lovers get to actually fly any real airplane. The percentage of people who would like to be a military or airliner pilot versus make it is very low. There are too many factors that must line up to be a professional pilot. Health, education, funds, spatial ability, etc. Any of these can short circuit the dream to be a pilot.

Companies like DCS and PDMG offer opportunities to do the second best thing. You can pretend to a high degree that you are a pilot. Exacting checklists and startup procedures and VR headsets can go a long way to creation an illusion. They can suspend your disbelief that you are not flying.

This isn’t all bad. I have said many times that I use flight simming to pretend I am still 22 yrs. old. I can vicariously (through my memories at 22-24) relive all to good points. I can leave out the long deployments, living underground on nuclear alert for weeks at a time. Or even the heat and high G-forces that drained you physically and mentally. So, flight simming can give us the good and leave out the bad.

Life being life, some will carry the illusion too far. It is human nature to believe if you have spent $100 USD on a simulated aircraft and another hundreds of hours studying aircraft and/or weapons systems ATC, ILS procedures, etc, to feel like you are better than the average Joe, who just jumps into his $25-30 third party airplane and hits CRTL-E to start.

This is no different than the old money vs. new money, rich vs. not so rich, Ivy league (or in the military Academy Grad) vs. State University, etc. snobbery. Snobs are people who for what every reason think they are better than someone else. They promote their egos by pointing out to the lower classes how better they are. This is human nature. You have it everywhere from the mighty towers of politics, the ancient academic halls, or flight simulation forums.

I think the wise person should ignore most of what the arrogant snobs say unless it is something learnable. I think that third party developers would be wise to ignore the yapping snobs and listen to the people who point out things that can make the user experience better.

Making an aircraft that a 14-16 year old will enjoy is not the aircraft the 20-30 wantabe pilots and aviation enthusiasts will enjoy. The 14-16 year old’s may buy more of the models, but they don’t go on these forums promoting or negating the airplane. It is the wantabe pilot and aviation enthusiasts who made this hobby. They will continue to make the hobby.

So, if I were a developer these are the people I would listen too. Not the loud mouth snob, nor the 14 year old who will buy and play it for may 30 minutes. No, I would listen to the people, like the folks here at SOH or AVSIM. These are the people who have made this hobby by putting their sweat and money into the hobby. Leave the PMDG and DCS crowds to their platforms. The 14 year old will buy it because it is new and shiny. But, the hobbyist will keep coming back and buying, so long as you give us a good mix of real systems and shiny bling. Allow your products to suspend our disbelief.

[DC1973]

I agree with all the above, except the age estimate. I do not have precise metrics, but my best estimate at my customer age-range is 30s +. The younger generation of users don't go for MSFS as much as they do Ace Combat and similar, as they don't always have the funds to buy the airplanes ( they get the sim free with Game Pass ) which many of them consider too expensive as "DLC". A lot of the customers I correspond with are former pilots, some with experience on the aircraft that I have built. They're generally not blinded by "new and shiny" at all.

I don't go out of my way to provoke the snobs that you mention, but these days I like to take the time to bite back. What I have found is that they're happy to dish out the abuse wherever they please, but utterly unable to take it. I once deliberately described DCS in the kind of language that those snobs use to describe MSFS, just to see what their response would be when offered their own medicine. My comment that "DCS is basically Ace Combat 7 with worse graphics and more buttons to press" ( unfair to the platform, but only in the same manner of their own trolling ) got precisely what I expected, an affronted, "how dare you" response.

PMDG and others may suffer the same thing, but not on the scale that DCS produces I'm sure.

I don't know if you follow my FB page, but I have had something planned since the summer that will answer quite clearly how much I want to bring all of my products up to a new level - if we hadn't had so many awful, airplane-breaking Sim Updates to deal with, I would have started by now. Those plans are being announced on Friday

[ColoKent]

I can leave out… living underground on nuclear alert for weeks at a time.

John…had not realized you had been SACumsized…me too…ICBM crew 83-87…then back as as staff officer 07-08 (post-SAC, obviously).

Kent

[rvn817j]

As for the "criticising it without owning it" nonsense, that's another great example of how DCS users make up their own narrative. The very reply mentioned states how good a platform I think DCS is - it's not the sim, it's the toxic users who can't keep their mouths shut and just enjoy their sim, but have to try to tell everybody else why they're an idiot for not using it.

Your bias against something (in your case you impune DCS users for being something they are not) causes you to miss my point entirely. I was merely attempting to point out that, for example, the DCS F-15 ($15 when not on sale) has significantly more systems / realism / functionality than the model you are selling. If M$FS had the reality that is currently in DCS I would likely use it for something more than simple VFR orientation.

As others have pointed out, your F-15 is geared toward something that I'm not interested in (however, I wouldn't object if someone wanted to add some youth to my scorecard), but you seem to want to twist it into something more.

[DC1973]

Your bias against something (in your case you impune DCS users for being something they are not) causes you to miss my point entirely. I was merely attempting to point out that, for example, the DCS F-15 ($15 when not on sale) has significantly more systems / realism / functionality than the model you are selling. If M$FS had the reality that is currently in DCS I would likely use it for something more than simple VFR orientation.

As others have pointed out, your F-15 is geared toward something that I'm not interested in (however, I wouldn't object if someone wanted to add some youth to my scorecard), but you seem to want to twist it into something more.

For your convenience, here is what you wrote, which had nothing to do with your above statement whatsoever;

"...I refuse to use it myself." That is quite the statement from someone that appears very critical of the simulator. So your criticisms are based on guesswork? I will give your opinions the weight they are due and I'm sure others will do (have done) the same. Please stick to M$FS.

To which I replied, it being the nonsense that it is. As for bias, I refer you back to your message above - I make it clear that my ire is directed at some users, not all. As I said, inventing your own narrative.

As for the F-15s in DCS World being $15 - there are four in my pack for $40, that's $10 each. At a stretch, you could call it three as the I is almost identical to the E, still $15. And I wanted them to be much cheaper, but Just Flight insisted on the higher price as, in their own words, less would be devaluing the product unnecessarily.

In your own words: I will give your opinions the weight they are due, and I'm sure others will do ( have done ) the same. Please stick to DCS.

[rvn817j]

Thanks for the advice kid. I think I will stick to DCS (as it works best for the things I want when flying simulators), but when I use M$FS I will avoid your "creations".

[Tom Clayton]

I've seen enough dev-bashing for one year in this thread. I've seen two personal insults and I'm not going to see any more. So with apologies to everyone else that has tried to keep this civil, I'm closing the thread. Dean, feel free to open a new thread for updates when needed. Livery shots can go in the Screenshots thread.

This is not how I wanted to spend my lunch hour...