Trouble with 'sound' flak guns
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  1. #1
    SOH-CM-2021 mongoose's Avatar
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    Trouble with 'sound' flak guns

    I am having trouble making a 'sound' gun which does more than a simple "..." or "___" morse as in below for "knickebein_center" which does work
    The files for this read like below with the m3s being just a flak gun m3d, and the same for all the items below. I will break up the posts to each different item/

    knickebein_center

    xdp
    <?xml version="1.0"?>
    <UnitData>
    <General Allegience="0" LongName="" ShortName="knickebeinC" ModelName="knickebein_center.m3d" BlastDamageScale="1.0" ImpactDamageScale="1.0" FireDamageScale="1.0" Priority="4" Type="static" EnteredService="01/01/1930" BlastDamageMod="1" ImpactDamageMod="1" FireDamageMod="1" Category="wheeled" PickType="armor_aa_static" Country="neutral" AllowSpawn="n"/>
    <Description String=""/>
    <Moving MinSpeed="0" MaxSpeed="0" CruiseSpeed="0" GroupSize="0" Type="0"/>
    <Loadouts/>
    <GunStations>
    <GunStation UpLimit="90" DownLimit="0" LeftLimit="360" RightLimit="360" RateLimit="360" SystemID="engine_one" Tracer="0" Trainable="1" Trigger="0" Type="knickebein_center_gun" Name="knickebein_center" ConvergeDistance="0" Pitch="0" MaxAmmo="10000"/>
    </GunStations>
    <DamageBoxes>
    <Box ID="damagebox_nose" Parent="damagebox_nose">
    <BoxMap SystemID="engine_one" Probability="100" Points="100"/>
    </Box>
    </DamageBoxes>
    <Systems>
    <System ID="engine_one" Name="">
    <Threshold Level="80" Effect="Break" Parameter="" Location=""/>
    <Threshold Level="100" Effect="Library" Parameter="fx_grndexpl_m" Location=""/>
    <Threshold Level="100" Effect="Library" Parameter="fx_damage_vehicle_l" Location=""/>
    <Threshold Level="100" Effect="Break" Parameter="" Location=""/>
    </System>
    </Systems>
    <Effects/>
    <Ground RoadMove="0" WaterMove="0" ForestMove="0" MtnMove="0" CrewSize="4"/>
    </UnitData>


    knickebein_center_round xdp
    <?xml version="1.0"?>
    <UnitData>
    <General Allegience="" LongName="" ShortName="" ModelName="" BlastDamageScale="1.0" ImpactDamageScale="1.0" FireDamageScale="1.0" Priority="2" Type="weapon" EnteredService="01/01/1930" BlastDamageMod="0" ImpactDamageMod="0" FireDamageMod="0" AllowSpawn="n" Category="weapon" Country="neutral" Mass="0"/>
    <Description String="Blank"/>
    <Weapon WeaponType="flak_gun" ImpactDice="0" ImpactDieSize="0" ImpactOffset="0" BlastDice="0" BlastDieSize="0" BlastOffset="0" BlastRadius="0" FireDice="0" FireDieSize="0" FireOffset="0" ExplodeEffect="0" GroundEffect="0" MissEffect="0" AirEffect="0" WaterEffect="0" TracerEffect="0"/>
    <Loadouts/>
    <GunStations/>
    <DamageBoxes/>
    <Systems/>
    </UnitData>

    sound xml part for all items

    <!--knickebein_left-->
    <knickebein_left>
    <sound file="knickebein_left.wav" MinDistance="900" Maxdistance="20000" InternalOnly="no" looping="no" atten="1"/>
    </knickebein_left>
    <!--knickebein_right-->
    <knickebein_right>
    <sound file="knickebein_right.wav" MinDistance="900" Maxdistance="20000" InternalOnly="no" looping="no" atten="1"/>
    </knickebein_right>
    !--knickebein_center-->
    <knickebein_center>
    <sound file="knickebein_center.wav" MinDistance="900" Maxdistance="10000" InternalOnly="no" looping="no" atten="1"/>
    </knickebein_center>
    <!--Lorenz_Left-->
    <Lorenz_Left>
    <sound file="knickebein_left.wav" MinDistance="5" Maxdistance="10000" InternalOnly="no" looping="no" atten="1"/>
    </Lorenz_Left>
    <!--Lorenz_Right-->
    <Lorenz_Right>
    <sound file="knickebein_Right.wav" MinDistance="5" Maxdistance="10000" InternalOnly="no" looping="no" atten="1"/>
    </Lorenz_Right>
    <!--Lorenz_HEZ-->
    <Lorenz_HEZ>
    <sound file="Lorenz_HEZ.wav" MinDistance="200" Maxdistance="900" InternalOnly="no" looping="no" atten="1"/>
    </Lorenz_HEZ>
    <!--Lorenz-VEZ-->
    <Lorenz-VEZ>
    <sound file="Lorenz-VEZ.wav" MinDistance="200" Maxdistance="5000" InternalOnly="no" looping="no" atten="1"/>
    </Lorenz-VEZ>
    <!--NJ_beacon1-->
    <NJ_beacon1>
    <sound file="NJ_beacon1.wav" MinDistance="900" Maxdistance="30000" InternalOnly="no" looping="no" atten="1"/>
    </NJ_beacon1>
    <!--Beacon_Victor-->
    <Beacon_Victor>
    <sound file="Beacon_Victor.wav" MinDistance="900" Maxdistance="30000" InternalOnly="no" looping="no" atten="1"/>
    </Beacon_Victor>


    see next post

    - - - Updated - - -

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  2. #2
    SOH-CM-2021 mongoose's Avatar
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    So the only changes between this for the xdps, and the actual sound files is the names for the m3d and associated names for

    NJ_beacon1.wav
    and
    Beacon_Victor.wav


    such as

    <?xml version="1.0"?>
    <UnitData>
    <General Allegience="0" LongName="" ShortName="NJ_beacon1" ModelName="NJ_beacon1.m3d" BlastDamageScale="1.0" ImpactDamageScale="1.0" FireDamageScale="1.0" Priority="4" Type="static" EnteredService="01/01/1930" BlastDamageMod="1" ImpactDamageMod="1" FireDamageMod="1" Category="wheeled" PickType="armor_aa_static" Country="neutral" AllowSpawn="n"/>
    <Description String=""/>
    <Moving MinSpeed="0" MaxSpeed="0" CruiseSpeed="0" GroupSize="0" Type="0"/>
    <Loadouts/>
    <GunStations>
    <GunStation UpLimit="90" DownLimit="2" LeftLimit="360" RightLimit="360" RateLimit="360" SystemID="engine_one" Tracer="0" Trainable="1" Trigger="0" Type="NJ_beacon1_gun" Name="NJ_beacon1" ConvergeDistance="0" Pitch="0" MaxAmmo="10000"/>
    </GunStations>
    <DamageBoxes>
    <Box ID="damagebox_nose" Parent="damagebox_nose">
    <BoxMap SystemID="engine_one" Probability="100" Points="100"/>
    </Box>
    </DamageBoxes>
    <Systems>
    <System ID="engine_one" Name="">
    <Threshold Level="80" Effect="Break" Parameter="" Location=""/>
    <Threshold Level="100" Effect="Library" Parameter="fx_grndexpl_m" Location=""/>
    <Threshold Level="100" Effect="Library" Parameter="fx_damage_vehicle_l" Location=""/>
    <Threshold Level="100" Effect="Break" Parameter="" Location=""/>
    </System>
    </Systems>
    <Effects/>
    <Ground RoadMove="0" WaterMove="0" ForestMove="0" MtnMove="0" CrewSize="4"/>
    </UnitData>


    and so on. See next post.

    Cato said "Carthaginem esse delendam"
    I say "Carthago iam diu deleta,sed enim Bellum Alium adhuc aedificandum est"

  3. #3
    SOH-CM-2021 mongoose's Avatar
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    So what is the only difference that I can think of is the following:=

    Beacon_Victor sound file is a long morse spelling "Beacon Victor"

    NJ_beacon1 is a voice sound file "Für Kurier-Informationen hier einkreisen"

    I am thinking this might br the issue??



    sounds.zip

    Cato said "Carthaginem esse delendam"
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  4. #4
    SOH-CM-2021 mongoose's Avatar
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    So I have been comparing several 'sound' guns which work and the 2 new ones which don't.

    1. The actual wav files for all the working ones are either >= in time length to the new ones; so that should not be the issue

    2. Therefore the repeat period should also not be an issue, but it would be nice to know what determines that for a gun. I assume not the rate in the vehicle xdp.

    3. All but the .wav name and min/max distance is the same for all working and non working sounds in the sounds.xml file.

    I am not even sure a round folder is needed in the weapons folder, since all the info = "0", as I have those not in there for working sounds.



    Another interesting thing that I have noticed is that, although the left and right limits are 360 and the sound is active both before and after passing the facility, heading in a missions does seem to matter, but contrary to what I would have though. Going North the heading is "0" and going South "180"
    Last edited by mongoose; October 9th, 2021 at 15:57.

    Cato said "Carthaginem esse delendam"
    I say "Carthago iam diu deleta,sed enim Bellum Alium adhuc aedificandum est"

  5. #5
    Im no expert but is it anything to do with the entries in the gun xdp

    Range="7500" Rate=".2" MuzzleVelocity="790" TimeAlive="10"

    MuzzleVelocity x TimeAlive = Range

    Mick

  6. #6
    Well, if all references and interpunction in your .xdps are correct, it must be in the .wav files themselves...
    I've downloaded your .zip and the three files are different in sampling rate: 8000, 44100, and 48000 Hz @ 32-bit respectively. Check a stock gun .wav sound .wav to see which rate is accepted then alter your files accordingly. I think I had the same problem with my tail warning radar sound - CFS3 only seems to accept a certain sampling rate. Hope that helps!

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  7. #7
    SOH-CM-2021 mongoose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty View Post
    Well, if all references and interpunction in your .xdps are correct, it must be in the .wav files themselves...
    I've downloaded your .zip and the three files are different in sampling rate: 8000, 44100, and 48000 Hz @ 32-bit respectively. Check a stock gun .wav sound .wav to see which rate is accepted then alter your files accordingly. I think I had the same problem with my tail warning radar sound - CFS3 only seems to accept a certain sampling rate. Hope that helps!
    Thanks Joost. I have a check on that when I can.

    Cato said "Carthaginem esse delendam"
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  8. #8
    SOH-CM-2021 mongoose's Avatar
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    So I changed the .wav f value to the same as guns; namely 22050 Hz, but no joy. I might try some other known working frequencies, as the idea is worth checking out.

    Cato said "Carthaginem esse delendam"
    I say "Carthago iam diu deleta,sed enim Bellum Alium adhuc aedificandum est"

  9. #9
    My tail warning radar buzzer sound file is 48000 Hz, stereo, 32-bit float. Haven't installed it now but it did work.
    You could temporarily replace the offending sound file reference with one of a working gun .wav to check the other files involved; if the gun sound is audible, at least you know the problem lies in your sound .wav and not the other files.

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  10. #10
    SOH-CM-2021 mongoose's Avatar
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    Good idea.
    BTW re "My tail warning radar buzzer sound file is 48000 Hz, stereo, 32-bit float. Haven't installed it now but it did work." ; I'm interested, but I assume used after August 1942 which is the cut off for the upcoming TOW 1940-1942 install. Would be interesting for TOW 1942-1944 0n though.

    Cato said "Carthaginem esse delendam"
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  11. #11
    SOH-CM-2021 mongoose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty View Post
    My tail warning radar buzzer sound file is 48000 Hz, stereo, 32-bit float. Haven't installed it now but it did work.
    You could temporarily replace the offending sound file reference with one of a working gun .wav to check the other files involved; if the gun sound is audible, at least you know the problem lies in your sound .wav and not the other files.
    So the flak and other gun sounds are 22050 Hz while the knickebein_center.wav is 44100 Hz. I left the latter as is since it worked. I put flak7.wav in for the Beacon_Victor and NJ_beacon1 sounds, but no joy. Now, WRT to other files, as I said, all are the same as the knickebein_center files with only name changes, therefore I am still stumped!

    What was your tail warning radar buzzer based on WRT file prototypes?

    Cato said "Carthaginem esse delendam"
    I say "Carthago iam diu deleta,sed enim Bellum Alium adhuc aedificandum est"

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by mongoose View Post
    So the flak and other gun sounds are 22050 Hz while the knickebein_center.wav is 44100 Hz. I left the latter as is since it worked. I put flak7.wav in for the Beacon_Victor and NJ_beacon1 sounds, but no joy. Now, WRT to other files, as I said, all are the same as the knickebein_center files with only name changes, therefore I am still stumped!

    What was your tail warning radar buzzer based on WRT file prototypes?
    That is too bad! I don't know what to say; I downloaded a buzzer sound file from the internet and converted it into a 1 second, 48000 Hz, Stereo, 32-bit float .wav file with the use of Audacity...
    It's been some time, so I can't remember the reasoning behind the choices I made - although I do seem to recall I had some trouble getting it to work too. I might even have opened a working .wav file in Audacity, deleted the original contents and pasted in my own.

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  13. #13
    SOH-CM-2021 mongoose's Avatar
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    I also use Audacity. I'll get back to it after getting the rest of the install ready. Meanwhile I can use a simpler version as in the knickebein. More on your radar buzzer some time please!

    Cato said "Carthaginem esse delendam"
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by mongoose View Post
    ... More on your radar buzzer some time please!
    Oh, that wan't too complicated in the end: I created a virtual turret (dummy boxes) that can elevate/rotate/fire as per the real radar's detection cone. Instead of a machine gun sound, the buzzer rings and instead of a muzzle flash, there's a red warning light (still looking for the effect itself, though). So, when an enemy A/C enters the detection cone of the radar, the 'turret fires' and you should hear the buzzer and see the red warning light alerting you that someone is on your tail (or flying through the detection cone).
    The only trouble encountered so far is that when you bail out, there are two chutes - the second one being the turret gunner's - and that maybe the gunner's weight is added to that of the aircraft. I have made the ammo itself weightless, nearly unlimited, non-damaging and fast as a radio signal. The turret tracks similarly speedy, so I hope it simulates the TWR well.

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  15. #15
    SOH-CM-2021 mongoose's Avatar
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    Interested to see that sometime. meanwhile, I had another trial idea.

    1. Working items all 41000 Hz wav files
    knickebein_center
    knickebein_left

    2. problem items all 41000 Hz wave files
    Beacon_Victor
    NJ_beacon1

    Idea 1.
    rename #1 wav files to #2 wav files, but keep all other #2 files and names.

    No joy

    Idea 2
    rename #2 wav files to #1 wav files but keep other #1 files and names.

    No joy!

    So at the moment stuck unless I think of something else.

    Cato said "Carthaginem esse delendam"
    I say "Carthago iam diu deleta,sed enim Bellum Alium adhuc aedificandum est"

  16. #16
    SOH-CM-2021 mongoose's Avatar
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    This is extremely frustrating. I just tried the above again with no joy!

    Joost, if I send you the relevant files, could you check if this is not just an issue with my PC, as I do have an issue with airbase lights either working or not working when I start CFS3.

    Cato said "Carthaginem esse delendam"
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by mongoose View Post
    This is extremely frustrating. I just tried the above again with no joy!

    Joost, if I send you the relevant files, could you check if this is not just an issue with my PC, as I do have an issue with airbase lights either working or not working when I start CFS3.
    No probs - you know where to send them. I do have a little spare time this evening, so who knows...
    If you could also add your original recordings - in case I want/need to try and create new .wav files .

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  18. #18
    OK James, I think I've got your sound files to work!

    1. The easiest way I could think of checking the files was to go the opposite way, meaning replacing a working gun sound with your files to see if it was audible ingame by firing my a/c's guns. That way I didn't have to install your whole setup.
    2. I reduced the length of each of your files to about two seconds each (the length of the .50 cal sound file I used for a test). This also makes sense to me if you plan set the beacons up as continuously firing weapons; if the firing rate is faster than the length of the sound file, I can imagine that the looping of the sound file might give trouble.
    3. I experimented a bit and got the sound files to work when I exported them as 22050 Hz 'WAV signed 16-bit PCM' files. Don't know how, when or why this works (while my tail warning buzzer is 48000 Hz 32-float) but when I fired my guns, I got a steady stream of your beeps...
    4. I sent you the working files by email. I also added left and right channel versions of some, in case they are of any use.

    Now what I didn't do, is cut the length of your files very neatly. To make the looping undetectable, I think you get the best result by re-editing your files to about 2s. length with a neat pause between the beeps so they loop inaudibly. I would use the cursor audio selection / position fields at the bottom for that - but you might already know that.

    Let me know how things fare!

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  19. #19
    SOH-CM-2021 mongoose's Avatar
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    Thanks for that, but I should say that my issue has not been with the knickebein/Lorenz items, which generally work OK, but the Beacon files; namely Beacon_Victor morse and the NJ_ beacon1 voice items. Now your point of the firing rate might well be very important, for instance the non repeated length of:-
    Beacon_Victor morse = 7s
    and
    NJ_beacon1 = 2 s

    So my first question is, what determines the firing rate and how could I alter that to fit these 2 sound effects?

    Cato said "Carthaginem esse delendam"
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  20. #20
    Ah, I didn't check out those two . I'll get back to you!
    Firing rate is set in the gun .xdp under 'Rate=', if I am not mistaken.

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  21. #21
    Quick check: if exported in the format described above, they work fine instead of the .50cal sound files. They even loop great, so no editing of the gun rate needed, it seems!

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  22. #22
    SOH-CM-2021 mongoose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty View Post
    Ah, I didn't check out those two . I'll get back to you!
    Firing rate is set in the gun .xdp under 'Rate=', if I am not mistaken.
    I thought your idea is based on a fixed time according to your .50cal sound file so how would 7s sound work.

    Cato said "Carthaginem esse delendam"
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  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by mongoose View Post
    I thought your idea is based on a fixed time according to your .50cal sound file so how would 7s sound work.
    Apparently it is not as strict as I thought - your two trouble-giving .wavs work/loop fine, even the one that is 7s long. The solution seems to be the wav. format when exporting from Audacity.

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  24. #24
    SOH-CM-2021 mongoose's Avatar
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    The first problem was that I didn't have 'gun' xdp files for these 2!

    When I added that the Beacon_Victor worked fine (the 7s sound). Now the vocal NJ_beacon1 does not. I wonder if I can increase the amplification on these. and I will also check other voice waves to see if they are different.

    I found this out when looking for the .50 cal in weapons i/o guns!

    The other issue I have is, with audacity, how to change frequency but keep wavelengths the same. and how to just change amplification. The voice sound wavs f=11025 Hz, which is much lower than mine.

    Cato said "Carthaginem esse delendam"
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  25. #25
    SOH-CM-2021 mongoose's Avatar
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    So, going 1 step forward and 1 back.

    1, The morse sounds work OK inc Beacon_Victor

    2. BUT, if I have 3 similar facilities in a test mission ca 10Nm. apart. only the first one works but not the others. This is not the case if the middle facility is the voice beacon NJ_beacon1; in which case 1 & 3 work if morse!

    3. The voice beacon NJ_beacon1 never works! This is in spite of Joost getting it to work as a .50 cal gun sound; but that doesn't work for me either.

    I may try all in another install and see what happens!

    Cato said "Carthaginem esse delendam"
    I say "Carthago iam diu deleta,sed enim Bellum Alium adhuc aedificandum est"

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